SA Government Asks For Constitutional Review On Proposed Land Confiscations

All of our collective fears are based on speculation. Other than "talk" the new government has taken no detrimental actions re. the expropriation of land. IMHO we all need to step back from this issue and let South African citizens sort it out. From an "optimists'" view the new president's agenda (if correctly stated in his speeches) should move the country forward. For the "pessimists" on AH, I'd suggest that you take another "look" at the glass.
 
Approximately 60% of South African's are under 30 years of age. The unemployment rate for this group is around 40%. Possibly higher. If 50% of this group is male, then there is a large number of testosterone charged individuals with nothing to do, that are sick with their current situation in life and are ready to make changes. (Look at the escalating crime statistics)

The ANC knows this. They can't afford for the EFF to grow. They are faced with the same decision Mugabe was faced with 18 years ago. The big question, what can they do to change and improve things?

Ramaphosa probably (hopefully) is much smarter than Zuma. Is this a test flag to gauge public opinion? Who knows.

Ramaphosa achieved his political dream. Now he sets under the Damoclean sword!
 
Approximately 60% of South African's are under 30 years of age. The unemployment rate for this group is around 40%. Possibly higher. If 50% of this group is male, then there is a large number of testosterone charged individuals with nothing to do, that are sick with their current situation in life and are ready to make changes. (Look at the escalating crime statistics)

The ANC knows this. They can't afford for the EFF to grow. They are faced with the same decision Mugabe was faced with 18 years ago. The big question, what can they do to change and improve things?

Ramaphosa probably (hopefully) is much smarter than Zuma. Is this a test flag to gauge public opinion? Who knows.

Ramaphosa achieved his political dream. Now he sets under the Damoclean sword!
Really well said.
 
Im really glad some can still be optimistic about the recent events for whatever their reasons or intentions.
But to me, that is being very naive to bank your well being on the call for calm speech of a president from an anything but transparent leading party & the hopes of justice to prevail through external influences.
Ask the Zim farmers whom lost everything under the Mugabe's regime, if the experience was worth it, since they now know they will be compensated for their losses at some point, hopefully still in their lifetime.

If the intention is to fairly redistribute land & grant all members of society equal benefit in the agenda, why take such drastic steps with little clarity on the focus points of for instance types of property it is aimed at?
The ANC, supported the motion of the EFF, a supposedly opposition party who's leaders has made their radical intentions clear. That just tells me something.
If they supported the motion for the sake of keeping votes, what makes you think they will do the righteous thing when the situation turns "radical" in the future & risk losing votes?

The fact that no drastic measures have been taken yet reminds me about the story of boiling a frog alive. If you raise the temperature too quick, the frog will jump out, but if you gradually raise the temperature, you will succeed.

I really hope I'm wrong & will wear the title of a pessimist but I don't want to be a blinded fool.
Time will tell.
 
I have no doubt that land confiscation will be met with fierce resistance in SA. I think that it wouldn’t take much to spark a complete revolt in South Africa as from my observations and conversations they are plenty tired of being “hassled by the man” to use a slang statement from the US. Ignorance can only be tolerated for so long before it comes to blows. The government there should take a hard look at their position. There are many hardcore people in South Africa that will not go gently into that goodnight!

Fierce resistance is what is will take. What is the situation with the armed services and police? Which tribal groups are anti-ANC? As long as the States have a Republican Government there is an excellent chance that the ANC will be punished if they try to go through with this stupid and evil scheme. If the anti-ANC forces get organized, I can foresee many foreign volunteers.

It is best the ANC recognize their peril, but I believe they are too stupid for this.
 
I think you are all stirring...
And to my fellow South African alarmists...no-one is interested in your farm as such.
The Government is sitting on just over 4300 farms that has been paid for and redistributed (some of them) but this land is lying unused.
In order to redistribute it, they will expropriate it without compensation from these farmers that it was given to, and redistribute again, this time with an emphasis on productivity, which previously did not happen.

Go and read it carefully. So, some interesting clauses and conditions to it.

No one is talking about a land grab nor are comments like Zimbabweans must be laughing appropriate.

I don't make comments about the 2nd amendment and gun ownership without trying to understand the complexity of the situation. It is emotionally laden...so is land ownership, not only in Africa but also elsewhere.

Example, in Australia Aboriginals have the right to hunt on any property without permission in an attempt to compensate for some of the injustices of the past. In the US, various Indian Groups where forcibly removed as well - perhaps there is a debate to be had on that one too?

I wish you were right but i seriously doubt it. I always reckoned that SA would go the way of Zimbabwe. I have been pleasanty pleases it has taken so long but it looks like that period is almost over. Now, the whites put their heads between their knees and hope for sanctuary elsewhere or they get really serious about organiainb.
 
A BRITISH LEGAL EXPERT'S OPINION ON EXPROPRIATION OF LAND WITHOUT COMPENSATION

Response written by Mark Philip Malcolm Horn - London Barrister. * No one does business with a thief, and no one extends credit to a thief.

"You can not have land expropriation without compensation. It is illegal in international law. It is contrary to a dozen treaties that South Africa has signed and ratified. As such, it is a principle that is also enshrined in South African domestic law. You can not change the Constitution therefore to make it legal - Treaty law is superior law, it always applies.

The proposal, if directed at land held by the white community, would also contravene half a dozen international treaties, notably those condemning apartheid, that South Africa since the ANC took power, has signed and ratified.

The same argument applies above, but now with the ironic twist that any such initiative would result in the ANC being condemned under international law for actions that the world would condemn as being racist.

So no, it can not be done. When Mugabe tried this, the point was litigated. These were the legal conclusions. Now, Mugabe pushed ahead, so what happened?

Well, the claims for illegal expropriation still are valid in law - at some point the Zimbabwean Government will need to pay them.

The consequence of their illegal policy is not forgotten with time. If they ever want to be re-integrated into the global community, they will need to pay.

As to the consequences of such a policy - Zimbabwe is a good example. There are no sanction on Zimbabwe. That is a myth. The only sanctions are those targeted on Mugabe and a few of his associates, and they are in place because of human rights abuses.

The economy has crashed, there is a 90% unemployment rate, for the very simple fact that Zimbabwe has shown itself to be a thief. No one does business with a thief, and no one extends credit to a thief.

You can not run a modern economy without access to the international market, and for that you need credit. The Zimbabwean economy has declined by 70% from what it was at independence simply because no one does business with a thief.

So what would be the consequence of a policy of expropriation without compensation in South Africa? Well, as noted, such a policy would be illegal.

The international community will immediately take note that South Africa has become a rogue state. That is not too much to worry, about, its just political. There are plenty of rogue states around the world.

What would happen, however, in terms of South Africa's access to the international markets is of far more concern. South Africa would have signaled that property rights are insecure. That will mean that international investment in South Africa would come to a screeching halt.

This has been happening for many years in any event - that is why South Africa is now ranked no. 7 in gold mining, when it used to be no. 1.

It is why South Africa has a 27% unemployment rate, and a 50% youth unemployment rate. So the response could well be: "who cares, we do not need their investment". That may well indeed be true.

But, that is not where the real crisis occurs. South Africa needs access to international financial markets because it has a trade and budget deficit. It needs access to international financial markets to pay for its bloated public sector, and to pay social grants to all those unemployed people.

To raise that money, it needs the banks. Now this is where the consequences of a policy of expropriation without compensation hits home.

Banks have, as is the nature of banking, highly leveraged Balance Sheets. They lend as multiples of the assets they actually have. They need to conform with the Basel ratio's. If they have a rise in bad debt, they can easily wipe out their Balance Sheets - they then become bankrupt, and they collapse.

So what do you think will happen if land is expropriated without compensation to the Banks? The answer is, they will see a rise in bad debt, and they will collapse.

That is not the end of the story. South Africa has seen its black population rise from approximately 2.5 m in the mid 19th century, to its current level of 50 m. The 2.5 m may be taken as the sustainable level of the black population without the benefits of colonialism, and of modern agriculture.

That 2.5 m number is important, because only 13% of South Africa is suited for agriculture, and only 3% is high quality agricultural land. The vast majority of South African agricultural land requires the application of modern technology.

Farming in South Africa is highly capital intensive. Farmers depend on bank lending not only to buy their farms, but also to provide essential working capital.

So, what happens if the land is expropriated without compensation, if the banks then collapse? Well it means no one is able to provide the essential working capital. If the farms then collapse, then up to 95% of the existing black population is at risk of starvation.
The banks can not access international markets, international lenders will not lend, South Africa then descends into chaos. At point, the international community would probably intervene military to restore order. As such, South Africa would have become yet another Failed State in the traditional African mold."
 
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People aren't supposed to rob banks, either. There are dozens of laws against it. Still, banks get robbed every day.
 
I will be writing both President Trump and UN Ambassador Nikki Haley to put pressure on the RSA government to rethink this racist, radical, and self-destructive policy. Not only for White people in South Africa but all Black people as well. They all know what happen in Zimbabwe. Millions of Black people died from starvation, crime, corruption, etc. Thousand of White people and their Families were murdered in their homes and farms.
I spent time in South Africa a couple of years ago and found all the people both Blacks and Whites living in harmony and working together to make South Africa a better nation. It's not perfect, but I was encouraged to see that it was moving in the right direction. If the land confiscation happens they need to understand that Americans/Europeans and others will not come to South Africa to hunt, and spend their tourist dollars. If people do not feel safe and wanted, and everyone is treated equally, we will go back in time, just like before apartheid. I urge the South African government to rethink this policy. I will also be reaching out and writing SCI and hopefully, this will help change hearts and minds. I want to come back and hunt in south Africa again, but for now I'm taking a wait and see approach. We all want peace and stability, we want South Africa to prosper and we want all South Africans to work together to achieve great things for their families and their Country.
 
Please get your facts straight about Zimbabwe.
Tragically we had 28 white farmers & 78 black farm managers brutally killed plus a unknown number of black farm workers killed. Their lives were equally as important.
 
Since some the companies have become so pious (i.e. Delta), maybe they should reconsider doing business in & with countries that are willing to behave this way in 2018.
 
THE ANT AND THE GRASSHOPPER

This one is a little different .......
Two Different Versions .....
Two Different Morals



OLD VERSION:

The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and
laying up supplies for the winter.
The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.
Come winter, the ant is warm and well fed.
The grasshopper has no food or shelter,
so he dies out in the cold.

MORAL OF THE OLD STORY:


Be responsible for yourself!


MODERN VERSION:
The ant works hard in the withering heat and the rain all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter.


The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.

Come winter, the shivering grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to know why the ant should be allowed to be warm and well fed while he is cold and starving.

CBS, NBC , ABC, MSNBC, PBS, CNN, and HLN
show up to provide pictures of the shivering grasshopper next to a video of the ant in his comfortable home with a table filled with food.
America is stunned by the sharp contrast.


How can this be, that in a country of such wealth, this poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer so?

Kermit the Frog appears on Oprah with the grasshopper and everybody cries when they sing, 'It's Not Easy Being Green..'

ACORN stages a demonstration in front of the ant's house where the news stations film the group singing, We shall overcome.


Then Rev. Jeremiah Wright has the group kneel down to pray for the grasshopper's sake.

President Obama condemns the ant
and blames President Trump, President Bush, President Reagan, Christopher Columbus, and the Pope for the grasshopper's plight.

Nancy Pelosi & Chuck Shumer exclaim in an interview with Chris Matthews & Brian Williams that the ant has gotten rich off the back of the grasshopper, and both call for an immediate tax hike on the ant to make him pay his "fair share" .


Finally, the EEOC drafts the Economic Equity & Anti-Grasshopper Act retroactive of course to the beginning of the Summer.

The ant is fined for failing to hire a proportionate number of green bugs and, so having nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes, his home is confiscated by the Government Green Czar and given to the grasshopper.

The story ends as we see the grasshopper and his free-loading friends finishing up the last bits of the ant's food while the government house he is in, which, as you recall, just happens to be the ant's old house, crumbles around them because the grasshopper doesn't maintain it.

The ant has disappeared in the snow, sadly never to be seen again.

The grasshopper is found dead in a drug related incident, and the house, now abandoned, is taken over by a gang of spiders who terrorize and ramshackle, the once prosperous and peaceful, neighborhood.

The entire Nation collapses bringing the rest
of the free world with it.

MORAL OF THE STORY:


There are a lot of grasshoppers in South Africa.


I've sent this to you because
I believe that you are an ant!

You may wish to pass this on to other ants, but don't bother sending it on to any grasshopper's because they wouldn't understand it, anyway.
 
Please get your facts straight about Zimbabwe.
Tragically we had 28 white farmers & 78 black farm managers brutally killed plus a unknown number of black farm workers killed. Their lives were equally as important.
Hi Tokoloshe Safaris, Thanks for the information, obviously we living in the US don't always get all the facts like what you see on the ground in Zimbabwe. I also heard that an awful lot of Whites and Blacks were murdered trying to defend each other from the government including whites/blacks that were living in the cities, because of what they believed was right. Maybe the numbers of death's we heard about, also including these brave people as well. Either way it was a sad time in Zimbabwe, and hopefully, the new government will make better decisions for all.
 
THE ANT AND THE GRASSHOPPER

This one is a little different .......
Two Different Versions .....
Two Different Morals



OLD VERSION:

The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and
laying up supplies for the winter.
The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.
Come winter, the ant is warm and well fed.
The grasshopper has no food or shelter,
so he dies out in the cold.

MORAL OF THE OLD STORY:


Be responsible for yourself!


MODERN VERSION:
The ant works hard in the withering heat and the rain all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter.


The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.

Come winter, the shivering grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to know why the ant should be allowed to be warm and well fed while he is cold and starving.

CBS, NBC , ABC, MSNBC, PBS, CNN, and HLN
show up to provide pictures of the shivering grasshopper next to a video of the ant in his comfortable home with a table filled with food.
America is stunned by the sharp contrast.


How can this be, that in a country of such wealth, this poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer so?

Kermit the Frog appears on Oprah with the grasshopper and everybody cries when they sing, 'It's Not Easy Being Green..'

ACORN stages a demonstration in front of the ant's house where the news stations film the group singing, We shall overcome.


Then Rev. Jeremiah Wright has the group kneel down to pray for the grasshopper's sake.

President Obama condemns the ant
and blames President Trump, President Bush, President Reagan, Christopher Columbus, and the Pope for the grasshopper's plight.

Nancy Pelosi & Chuck Shumer exclaim in an interview with Chris Matthews & Brian Williams that the ant has gotten rich off the back of the grasshopper, and both call for an immediate tax hike on the ant to make him pay his "fair share" .


Finally, the EEOC drafts the Economic Equity & Anti-Grasshopper Act retroactive of course to the beginning of the Summer.

The ant is fined for failing to hire a proportionate number of green bugs and, so having nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes, his home is confiscated by the Government Green Czar and given to the grasshopper.

The story ends as we see the grasshopper and his free-loading friends finishing up the last bits of the ant's food while the government house he is in, which, as you recall, just happens to be the ant's old house, crumbles around them because the grasshopper doesn't maintain it.

The ant has disappeared in the snow, sadly never to be seen again.

The grasshopper is found dead in a drug related incident, and the house, now abandoned, is taken over by a gang of spiders who terrorize and ramshackle, the once prosperous and peaceful, neighborhood.

The entire Nation collapses bringing the rest
of the free world with it.

MORAL OF THE STORY:


There are a lot of grasshoppers in South Africa.


I've sent this to you because
I believe that you are an ant!

You may wish to pass this on to other ants, but don't bother sending it on to any grasshopper's because they wouldn't understand it, anyway.
Hi Hogpatrol, This is also a good lesson to learn in America, when the do gooder, gun grabber's come to our homes and try to confiscate our weapons, before they steal our land. Thanks
 
I think there's a land crap planned here in the United States. Corn already under $4 dollars with the steel tariffs it may go to 2. The big eastern hedge funds are ready to take it.
 
What a mess. Sounds like Zimbabwe all over again. I agree with FourFive8, glad I'm just passing thru RSA.
 
I’m heading back the last week of August. Maybe I should buy refundable plane tickets. History would show this was a disaster for the people in Zimbabwe. The outfitter that I hunt with does some of his hunts on a tribal concession. It is sad to see the how run down this concession is compared to the other concession I hunted.
 
I think you are all stirring...
And to my fellow South African alarmists...no-one is interested in your farm as such.
The Government is sitting on just over 4300 farms that has been paid for and redistributed (some of them) but this land is lying unused.
In order to redistribute it, they will expropriate it without compensation from these farmers that it was given to, and redistribute again, this time with an emphasis on productivity, which previously did not happen.

Go and read it carefully. So, some interesting clauses and conditions to it.

No one is talking about a land grab nor are comments like Zimbabweans must be laughing appropriate.

I don't make comments about the 2nd amendment and gun ownership without trying to understand the complexity of the situation. It is emotionally laden...so is land ownership, not only in Africa but also elsewhere.

Example, in Australia Aboriginals have the right to hunt on any property without permission in an attempt to compensate for some of the injustices of the past. In the US, various Indian Groups where forcibly removed as well - perhaps there is a debate to be had on that one too?
:A Bravo::D Beers:
 

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