SA Government Asks For Constitutional Review On Proposed Land Confiscations

[ack]

These idiots are about to descend into economic hell far worse than what they may have now ~ Everyplace that has confiscated land and given it to the uneducated has seen the farms and businesses destroyed..It will happen here then do gooders will rush in crying for the world to help..Shame

 

[Tom Hawk]

According to your profile you are too young to be drinking, so I assume you attempting to be humorous.

Yes, one of my more embarrassing posts. I’d delete if I could.

 

[lwaters]

That idea of having four wives is not going to work out to well. Even in the US you would be living in proverty if you had that many. Is this actually legal there? I always noticed that in RSA there was always a lot of people doing nothing.

 

[Wheels]

Yes, one of my more embarrassing posts. I’d delete if I could.

Don't worry about it. Most of us have a few posts where we would like a do over. You have plenty of company.

 

[sonnyn913]

What a shame. glad I am going to New Zealand this year.

 

[Shootist43]

Red Leg, I certainly hope that the new President realizes the folly of expatriation and moves to stop it from happening. If he cannot thwart that effort and the white land owners rebel, your well reasoned assessment(s) of the likely result will wind up being an eventual reality.

 

[CAustin]

As an outsider looking in, it seems the white diaspora is only growing.

I heard from friends recently, that have gone to the same church in Benoni for over 50 years. Most weeks at least one member has suffered a home invasion. Around once a month, friends are beaten in a home invasion. In the last 2-4 years they have lost about 1/4 of their members to white ruled commonwealth countries. They dread finding out which friends will be leaving next.

Benoni has lost much of its allure over the years, but it's not like it is a dump. The area where they live is 2,000-3,000 sf homes on half acre with many having a pool and tennis court.

It must be difficult growing old in your home and in your homeland and not feeling safe or being safe. My heart goes out to all affected.

Prayer for calm in all,of Southern Africa is much needed. I hope for the best. My heart is burdened for my friends safety.

Before my first safari I was on Capital Hill visiting several congressmen. One evening I attended a gathering at the offices of a large Lobbying firm. The director of that firm, a very powerful former congressman, engaged me in conversation and found out I was going over for a hunt. He asked where and I told him South Africa. He looked me hard in the eye and said that had the recent elections gone a little differently he would urge me not to go. The place is on the verge of socialism he offered. He went on to say he had great concern that future governments of South Africa would make a land redistribution or that corrupted officials would make a land grab as had been done elsewhere. The silver haired gent predicted complete economic collapse of South Africa when such redistribution took place and as such counseled American Businesses not to heavily invest there. One of his final Thoughts was that we should all pray for the minority citizens of the countries of Southern Africa because they would be chased from their homes and harassed until they left the place.

As @Wheels has put it so bluntly......it must be sad to be old and unsafe in your home. Pray for those that you know over there folks that they not come to harm!

 

[wesheltonj]

Well, I have a different take on this. The removal of Zuma all but guarantees that the DA will not make any major head way next year. The ANC knows the EEF is also making gains on their power. The new president is still too busy getting rich to put the country in a civil war, (unless of course he is the one selling the guns), but will give lip service about taking some land to pull votes that might otherwise go to the EEF. Sure they will take a little to fool the masses.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

I’ll bet the Zimbabweans are laughing at South Africa

Not laughing, we have been there. As sad as it was that we had about a dozen white farmers killed. Look how many have already died in RSA and the farm seizures have not even started.

 

[IvW]

Wonder what some of our South African friends here on AH have to say about this?

We will be fu...d! Simple as that.

 

[IvW]

If all the whites left South Africa, the country would quickly crumble into ruination. At some point they will be looking for the rest of the world to give them money.

True, but where too??? This is my country I ain't going nowhere.

 

[IvW]

I’ll bet the Zimbabweans are laughing at South Africa

Not the white ones I can assure you.

 

[IdaRam]

Hoping for the best, my thoughts and prayers are with you. May sanity prevail.

 

[LivingTheDream]

Prayer for calm in all,of Southern Africa is much needed. I hope for the best. My heart is burdened for my friends safety.

Before my first safari I was on Capital Hill visiting several congressmen. One evening I attended a gathering at the offices of a large Lobbying firm. The director of that firm, a very powerful former congressman, engaged me in conversation and found out I was going over for a hunt. He asked where and I told him South Africa. He looked me hard in the eye and said that had the recent elections gone a little differently he would urge me not to go. The place is on the verge of socialism he offered. He went on to say he had great concern that future governments of South Africa would make a land redistribution or that corrupted officials would make a land grab as had been done elsewhere. The silver haired gent predicted complete economic collapse of South Africa when such redistribution took place and as such counseled American Businesses not to heavily invest there. One of his final Thoughts was that we should all pray for the minority citizens of the countries of Southern Africa because they would be chased from their homes and harassed until they left the place.

As @Wheels has put it so bluntly......it must be sad to be old and unsafe in your home. Pray for those that you know over there folks that they not come to harm!

@CAustin it is funny you mention that. I was talking with a global security expert who counsels businesses and executives on travel and operations, former government guy but was very aware of the political climate of different countries. He said at the time that his biggest worry when looking at the long term (5, 10, 20 years) was that South Africa would be in Civil war due sometype of economic downfall or political overreach. This was back around late 2013, early 2014. It was hard for me to believe at the time.

 

[ActionBob]

I would also recommend to book smartly and get travel insurance just as I would advise for travel to any 3rd-world destination for any number of obvious reasons.

Good point, the ANC did succeed in making a 3rd -World Country out of the finest 1st-World Country in Africa

 

[ActionBob]

Didn't I recently see a news post that the RSA President agreed to back these land claims only if they increased the output of the land?

Is there something going on under the surface to give lip service to those masses while preserving what economic engines the country has left?

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Didn't I recently see a news post that the RSA President agreed to back these land claims only if they increased the output of the land?

Is there something going on under the surface to give lip service to those masses while preserving what economic engines the country has left?

You are on the correct track Bob.

 

[james cameron]

I think you are all stirring...
And to my fellow South African alarmists...no-one is interested in your farm as such.
The Government is sitting on just over 4300 farms that has been paid for and redistributed (some of them) but this land is lying unused.
In order to redistribute it, they will expropriate it without compensation from these farmers that it was given to, and redistribute again, this time with an emphasis on productivity, which previously did not happen.

Go and read it carefully. So, some interesting clauses and conditions to it.

No one is talking about a land grab nor are comments like Zimbabweans must be laughing appropriate.

I don't make comments about the 2nd amendment and gun ownership without trying to understand the complexity of the situation. It is emotionally laden...so is land ownership, not only in Africa but also elsewhere.

Example, in Australia Aboriginals have the right to hunt on any property without permission in an attempt to compensate for some of the injustices of the past. In the US, various Indian Groups where forcibly removed as well - perhaps there is a debate to be had on that one too?

 

[Dragan N.]

They are now a Third World military power - but still the strongest by far on the African continent if we exclude Egypt (whose armed forces are much more powerful).

Look, let's all be military analysts for a moment. There are roughly 4 mil whites in the RSA. That leaves a total male population of roughly 2 mil. However, Africaners only make up approximately half that number (I think most South African Boers would agree with me that the white "English" and other non black members of the population are very unlikely to join them in a suicidal revolt.) So that leaves a million males - all ages - from new-born to great grandpa. From a pure mathematics perspective that leaves us perhaps 100,000 potential guerillas? But of course the pool isn't nearly that large. Not all are fit. Many would think such a revolt was little more than a foolish quixotic form of suicide and would not participate. Others would quickly leave the country. And unlike Maoist inspired revolutions, a white resistance could not simply melt into the general population. The leader of such a revolt would be lucky to have a couple of thousand men potentially under arms. But it won't even be nearly that high. How many South Africans even have access to a weapon? The combat ratios would be infinitely worse than the Boer Commandos faced against the British in the Second Boer War, and their families would be at even higher risk of treatment far worse than the British meted out in their concentration camps. Non of that worked out particularly well. And of course, there would be no international supplier of mausers like there was at the end of the 19th century.

A guy with a rifle can indeed be an effective adversary. And I think we can all agree that the South African PHs and hunters we know would represent very fine riflemen indeed. But not for very long when being hunted by an Army and a national police force. And almost none of those guys with a rifle in the RSA have had any real military training. However "third world" any given rifle company of infantry opposing them would be in any particular fire-fight, the fire-power differential alone inevitably would be decisive.

Please correct me if I am wrong but doesn't also the geographic distribution of South Africa's white minority work against them in any potential "guerrilla revolt".

There are cases of where an outgunned guerrilla movement managed to defeat a vastly superior force- the Vietnam War is a notable example. But the things the VCs had going for them was home field advantage and perhaps even more importantly the fact that they were not going anywhere- they were composed of Vietnamese people who lived in Vietnam. While the American military was made up of foreigners who had no intention of living there and also a war weary American public increasingly wanted them brought home. The VCs outlasted the US military presence in Vietnam and thus won.

But in South Africa any potential "white resistance" would not have any of the advantages described above. The black South African security forces are in it for the "long haul" and they live in the same place. So its not like they could just withdraw or leave. They also have home field advantage too and numbers on their side. The only way any kind of guerrilla warfare could even hypothetically be successful would be if the entire south African white minority was concentrated in and controlled an entire part or region of the country. And that if this region seceded it would have to be invaded by the military, police etc... But this is not the case as whites are spread out all over the country and live among predominately black populations.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

I think you are all stirring...
And to my fellow South African alarmists...no-one is interested in your farm as such.
The Government is sitting on just over 4300 farms that has been paid for and redistributed (some of them) but this land is lying unused.
In order to redistribute it, they will expropriate it without compensation from these farmers that it was given to, and redistribute again, this time with an emphasis on productivity, which previously did not happen.

Go and read it carefully. So, some interesting clauses and conditions to it.

No one is talking about a land grab nor are comments like Zimbabweans must be laughing appropriate.

I don't make comments about the 2nd amendment and gun ownership without trying to understand the complexity of the situation. It is emotionally laden...so is land ownership, not only in Africa but also elsewhere.

Example, in Australia Aboriginals have the right to hunt on any property without permission in an attempt to compensate for some of the injustices of the past. In the US, various Indian Groups where forcibly removed as well - perhaps there is a debate to be had on that one too?