Discussion in 'Firearms & Ammunition' started by Alistair, Aug 19, 2019.
Go the Rigby and if you get knocked back as for a 375H&H
So, I did a thing.
Decided to go for .375H&H in the end as I really can't justify the 416 for what I want to do, much as I want one.
The variation went in to the police today, let's see where it pans out. Oh, and there's a very nice S/H Winchester 70 Safari on sale on guntrader (https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/rifle...375-h-h-mag/70-safari-express-190907171053427) as well at a price I can stretch too, so let's hope they respond quickly!
Wish me luck!
Most people who are client hunters decide to go for the .375 HH Magnum , including me , myself. While a practical choice , l was really hoping you'd buy that .416 and show us some cool photos Oh well All the best
Al, A Winchester Model 70 Safari Express in 375H&H runs about $1400.00 US. I have one and love it. I've used it on everything from springbok to Cape buffalo. Ammo is universally available and comes in several bullet types and weights. Pretty much the universal caliber.
Another consideration is a Montana Rifle Co. African in 375H&H for about $1950.00 US.
Happy hunting with whatever you choose.
Good luck! Keep us updated with progress - I'm sat here knowing you're in the UK and hoping your force is one of the decent ones. I will be following your journey with great interest and wishing you the best all the way!
There are plenty of case references for a .375H&H in the UK and from how my FEO was talking when I went for my .416, that's what you need to push them around with. If a few other people have one you've got good grounds for a fight, if they don't, you've had it! I asked for a Lott and hit a brick wall, not a chance if I wanted to use it here. FEO said apply for a .416 because I've read through the database and found a few.... Bingo, granted for abroad, deer and AOLQ!
Get a small deposit on that gun, it's very possible it won't be there long at that price. The way I see it they're not easy to come by, so gambling £100 to make sure it's reserved for you can be a good move. Some dealers will even refund it if you get refused.
You have chosen wisely…
Thanks njc, apprciate your advice.
Where is the best place to look for case references for this kinda thing? I know of a few guys at my club who have the bigger stuff rated for boar and the larger deer, but as you're aware, ownership of this type of calibre is fairly limited generally, so if there is a database or a resource with examples to back up my case, it can only help.
@Alistair I think I may have come to this chat a little late. 375 H&H will do everything you need it to. It is truly a one rifle for one planet. I have both a 416 Rigby and a 375 H&H. I had a 6 month battle with Norfolk to get AOLQ added but the 416 is just for use abroad. The ion in my avatar was taken with the 375 at 8-9 yards and he went down with little resistance. The question you need to ask yourself is which calibre can you shoot WELL ?? Shot placement is always key. If you go for a BA CRF is a must have in a DG rifle. The last thing you want is a nasty jam up due to short stroking the bolt. Ive seen it happen and it almost ended badly.
If you need any help etc feel free to contact me
Cheers for the offer Norfolk Shooter and congrats on the lion, very impressive!
I take your point on the recoil issue, but I think I'd be ok with either, and I'm perfectly comfortable with the 375 in 'field' positions (shooting strings for load development from the bench might be less fun though).
THe two rifles I'm considering are the Win Mod 70, of which the most recent iteration is a true CRF, and the CZ550, which again, is CRF.
I'm not actually that fussed about AOLQ with this rifle, it's primarily intended for use abroad, although I will be asking for range conditions for practice and zeroing. I suppose I might as well throw in the AOLQ as a negotiation point in the discussion with the FLO, but honestly I could take it or leave it. I've got a perfectly suitable .270 which is ideal for my UK needs.
What was your initial justification for the 375 and 416? Did you already hve past experience of Africa or a trip booked? I'm wondering if I'm going to have difficulties basing this application around driven boar only in the short / medium term, as whilst sincere, my vague plans to go to Africa sometime this decade is perhaps not going to cut the mustard...
@Alistair Having owned both, I find the Rigby harder to shoot than the H&H by quite a margin. For accurate shooting you have made the right decision for sure. A harder recoiling gun is never easier to shoot than one that recoils less.
My justification for the .416 was my own boar permission in the UK and a reference from a friend who is a Canadian living in New Zealand. It happens that he also trains trackers both in the military and civilian environments, including African guides. He has shot with me in Canada and the UK (I actually lived with him and his family for a month and hunted bear and deer with him in Canada a few years ago, my profile picture was taken by him) and he has quite a knowledge of DG hunting. That combined with the amount of time he's spent in the field with me made his reference pretty impressive! He pushed hard on the point that field familiarity with that exact firearm was pretty important, and I think that went a long way towards me getting AOLQ as a condition. I have an open invitation to hunt with him in Canada and NZ any time which is as good as a booking with a guide.
I've searched through load data and bought casting equipment that will allow me to make loads for the Rigby that won't be hugely excessive for deer in the UK and I have every intention of using it along side my usual 6.5x55 for deer locally. If you can manage to get the same for your .375 that would be an advantage. Just because you don't need it for deer, that doesn't mean you don't need to shoot deer with it if you see what I mean?
My case references were actually dug up by the FEO working on my application believe it or not. The whole office loved it because it was something a bit less mundane than the usual "can I have a second .22lr please?" applications that they deal with day in, day out. They were actively trying to get my request past their superiors which was rather amusing! I was pretty much told that if I kept pushing for the Lott it would be refused, but if I changed my application to some kind of .416, two people in my county had one already so they'd be pretty hard pressed to refuse me!
In my Shikari career , l observed that my most sensible clients were the ones who brought a three seven five rifle for leopard , tiger , boar or gaur and a twelve bore shot-gun for bird . No finer caliber can ever be made for hunting a variety of animals , dangerous or otherwise
I refer to the English three seven five and not the Austrian three seven five, which is noticeably a step down in smashing force.
Please explain the difference between English and Austrian.
And what exactly is "smashing force"?
To the poster : Bee Maa
The English three seven five bore is the cartridge designed by the firm , Holland and Holland.
It has a bullet which weighs 300 grains
It is an excellent caliber and many of my clients used them with great effect on leopards , tigers , boars and gaur from 1964 to 1969.
The Austrian three seven five bore is designed by the firm , Mannlicher and it has a bullet weighing 270 grains .
Smashing force means power . I apologize if my English is not very good as it is my secondary language . An European client in 1968 brought this Mannlicher calibre rifle to hunt gaur and it failed to kill the animal even though his aim was in the correct place , behind the shoulder .
That's right , Mr. Rahman ! Bee Maa will probably recognize it as the 9.5 Mannlicher
I'd never even heard of this before.
Thanks @Hoss Delgado and @Kawshik Rahman.
I'll stick with my 375H&H.
Yes , that's the one !
An update for you guys.
So I had a call from West Mercia police today regarding my application for the .375. Great success!
Props to the fuzz, they were actually very reasonable about the whole thing. No quibbles on the calibre, no issues with it being conditioned for zeroing, competition and practice in the UK and a decent ammo allowance as well. Not conditioned for hunting in the UK, but I don't particularly want that anyway, and they're fine for use on driven boar on the continent. I'm very pleased. I got exactly what I asked for and only 10 or so days on the turn around. Feel a bit foolish for being so worried about the whole thing now.
Anyway, the certificate should arrive sometime this week, so toy shopping can begin. Hopefully that Winchester is still for sale.
What ammo allowance did they give you if you don’t mind me asking? I was given 80 375 rounds but have applied to increase it to an even 100. We’ll see what they say to that (Warwickshire).
I applied for 100 straight off the bat. Justification given for this is that I reload, so having the ability to make a batch of 50 target rounds and a further 50 hunting loads is useful considering brass, bullets etc often come in batches of this number.
I probably could have gone for more, but actually the 100 is plenty really. It'd give me 2x courses of fire for the range (1 month) and I'd guess about 3 years of hunting use in my possession at any one time.
Glad to hear it went well. Generally speaking if you don't want to shoot live quarry in the UK they are ok. It's when you tell them you want to go out bunny bashing of an evening that they look at you like you're crazy and dig their heels in!
That said, I shot a mole with my .338 Win Mag once and my FEO thought it was hilarious that I'd spend so much on ammunition to kill such a little pest. It was wrecking the lawn on the estate and the opportunity presented itself as I was walking back to the truck, so I aimed at the middle of the hill that was moving and gave it some. Job done, the estate manager was really pleased so brownie points for me!
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