Rifle Options - 375H&H / 416 Rigby

Discussion in 'Firearms & Ammunition' started by Alistair, Aug 19, 2019.

  1. Brian Rothhammer

    Brian Rothhammer AH Senior Member

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    The 9.5X57 was the proprietary cartridge for the Mannlicher Schoenauer M1910 model built by Osterr Waffenfabriken Ges, Steyr, and later Steyr - Werke AG. It was known to the British trade as the .375 Nitro Express Rimless, or .375RNE, though the cordite load was generally lighter in cartridges listed as .375 RNE than in those of 9.5x57. Eley (Kynoch), DWM (Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken), and other manufacturers made both during the 'interwars' period of the 1920s - 30s.

    The Mannlicher Schoenauer proprietary cartridges of 6.5x54 (M1903), 9x56 (M1905), 8x56 (M1908), 9,5x57 (M1910) with DWM numbers:

    Eley drawing of cartridge:
    [​IMG]

    The cartridge was preceded by a rimmed .375 Nitro Express and has roots with Westley Richards, who claimed to have designed it:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     

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    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 30, 2019

  2. njc110381

    njc110381 AH Enthusiast

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    @Alistair How did you get on? Did you manage to pick up that Winchester?
     

  3. norfolk shooter

    norfolk shooter AH Elite

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    @Alistair yeh what did you get in the end???
     

  4. Alistair

    Alistair AH Veteran

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    Hi njc, all.

    I did indeed get the Winchester, today in fact!

    Bit of a hold up on getting the certificate back, but it arrived saturday and I went shopping today.

    She's a beauty. 2010 production, great nick, can't have fired more than 100rounds total. Feeding (at least with my dummy rounds) seems pretty slick and the trigger is also surprisingly good.

    I'm now just waiting on some dies to arrive then I can make up some ammo and have a go!

    There's a running boar comp next saturday, so if I can find some time to zero before hand, 20 rounds on moving targets seems a pretty good intro to the big (medium) bore club!

    On a slightly less pleasing note the certificate has come back with a few additional, frankly draconian conditions which were not discussed during the telephone interview. Mostly a requirement for non-expanding ammo only for range use and also no mention of practice or competition, only zeroing.

    When one considers that we discussed in depth and they duly accepted running boar competitions and load development as reasons why I should have a UK ammo allowance, this is... puzzling to me. No matter, a discussion to have with the fuzz monday and hopefully something I can get resolved by the weekend.

    They also threw on an extra 60 rounds to the allowance we agreed for no apparent reason, but I don't think I'll complain too loudly about that one...
     

  5. njc110381

    njc110381 AH Enthusiast

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    Great news re. the rifle. I'd really hoped you'd get it in time because it looked to be a great deal. Quite often these big bores don't get fired much, so a used gun often isn't all that used!

    Re. the ammunition conditions, they could be falling back on the old section 5 expanding missiles rule. But as far as I'm aware those rules no longer apply as they were recently changed? It used to be that expanding missiles (expanding bullets in simple English!) were only allowed to be granted for humane killing of live quarry. From looking at my FAC that no longer applies as I have a range only rifle on there and there's no longer any mention of it (I just went and read it before I posted this). Therefore as far as I can tell there is no legal definition of an expanding bullet any more. I use jacketed hollow points which my local shop happily sell me for my range gun! So how have they worded that exactly? PM me if you like and we can compare notes. For now just load cheap FMJ and be done with it, it'll beat down a pig target just as well as a soft point and you're not off hunting right now anyway?

    Over the last twelve years I've learned to play the game by the book. I can't say I get everything I want but in general my force are pretty reasonable with me (UK stupid rules aside for readers in other countries!). That's one of the main reasons I pushed for live quarry on my .416 - once field use is established you can generally go ahead with a great deal more freedom, even more so in the past than now. I've got 200 rounds on my Rigby slot, deer and AOLQ so I legally have to have expanding bullets, no land restrictions. That's about as free as a gun owner can get around here!
     

  6. Alistair

    Alistair AH Veteran

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    Thanks, I am very pleased with the rifle, it'sexctly with advertised and a fair chunk less than a new one, so no compliants there at all.

    Regarding the conditions, Yes, I think this is what they've done and yes, I could possibly live with it, but why should I? It's silly, doesn't allow me to do what they've granted the rifle for me to do, and it'll make life difficult, so I'll ask for it to be changed.

    To be honest, I'm struggling a little to find 'target' bullets for .375 anyway, whereas Gamekings, Accubond or TSX can be had in the local shop. I think it's defintely worth a chat, as it's so patently ridiculous and I'll see what they say.

    The exact wording is "...may be zeroed with NON EXPANDING ammunition in GB on ranges suitable for that class of firearm...". So fine to get a rough zero with the wrong bullet, but not strictly useful for load development, practice or zeroing, or for assessing drops, with the correct, expanding bullet that I'd hunt with. In short, marginally better than nothing, but not what was discussed on the interview for the calibre.
     

  7. njc110381

    njc110381 AH Enthusiast

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    That is very frustrating. It's how things often used to work before the rules were changed to be more sensible.

    If they won't change, the only sensible suggestion I can come up with is Woodleigh Hydro solids. Non expanding but designed to shock quarry like an expanding bullet does. That would fit your needs without them having any say in the matter. They're expensive though - it really would be nice if you could load it with Speer or Sierra softs and shoot until your heart's content without spending a fortune. Some forces are just plain difficult!
     

  8. Alistair

    Alistair AH Veteran

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    and another update.

    Just had a chat with the FLO again and the certificate will be amended for expanding ammo and also load development plus practice, so think I'm good here.

    Apparently that's the default wording they use and it simply hasn't been updated to reflect expanding ammo coming off section 5.

    Got to wait for a new re-printed cert, but happy for me to crack on in the interim, so no harm done.

    Al.
     

  9. njc110381

    njc110381 AH Enthusiast

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    That's great news! Time to buy a load of cheap soft point bullets and get some loads made up. Brownells have 200gr flat nose for £33.50 per box, that's not bad. Given the choice I wouldn't be plinking at targets with posh ones that's for sure!
     

  10. Alistair

    Alistair AH Veteran

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    Indeed. I've already ordered the 300gr Gameking bullets, £38.50 a box at McAvoy guns, so they'll do for plinking.

    I've got 300gr TSX on order as well as my hunting load, so some load development to do with those in due course.

    Exciting times. If only my dies would arrive...
     

  11. MS Hitman

    MS Hitman SILVER SUPPORTER AH Enthusiast

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    Congrats on the rifle and certificate revision.

    I have and shoot both the .375 H&H as well as the .416 Rigby. My Rigby is a great cast bullet rifle, 350 RCBS ahead of 30 grains of TrailBoss for plinking loads.

    All the best!
     
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  12. njc110381

    njc110381 AH Enthusiast

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    That's the mould I've just got for mine. Do you bother to gas check the bullets with that little powder behind it? And how hard is your alloy?

    Sorry for all the questions, I've just jumped on an opportunity to get a good load for mine without having to work on it!
     

  13. MS Hitman

    MS Hitman SILVER SUPPORTER AH Enthusiast

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    Yes, I do install the gas checks. I use wheel weights, sometimes water dropped, sometimes air cooled. This is plenty hard and remains ductile, about the equivalent of #2 alloy.

    I plan to hunt with the above mentioned load this year, I have access to deer and wild pigs.
     

  14. njc110381

    njc110381 AH Enthusiast

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    We don't have lead wheel weights here sadly, they're all zinc! But I do have a big crate of printer's type which I believe will do as good or a better job. Usually I mix pure roofing lead with old pewter tankards. That alloy doesn't seem to lead too badly but I've not tried to fire it fast yet.

    I have the same things to hunt here. Mainly deer and a few pigs now and again. I think a slow cast Rigby load will work just fine for that.
     

  15. MS Hitman

    MS Hitman SILVER SUPPORTER AH Enthusiast

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    Linotype is getting rare in the states. Mixing it with pure lead should increase ductility and keep it plenty hard. I have some monotype, but that stuff is hard as woodpecker lips.
     
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