Resignation PHASA President

[IdaRam]

There are huge wells just waiting to blow out. View attachment 187049

It is an issue that is certainly not resolved. A majority at a meeting made a decision and then someone apparently made a booboo in interpretation (or otherwise).

The organization needs to present a resolution and include all the facets of the issue so they may move forward with a vote and get on with hunting.

I wish them well.

"There are huge wells just waiting to blow out. "
Um, that sounds a bit ominous... ?

 

[jeff]

Exactly. There is no difference in a sable, Whitetail, kudu, lion or impala raised for hunting on a game farm. And for what its worth, it doesnt bother me a bit.

Most plains game on game farms are not raised in a small pen only to be released 7 days before the hunt, most are born on the acreage and have lived there much of their lives on thousands of acres.

 

[ActionBob]

There are huge wells just waiting to blow out. View attachment 187049

It is an issue that is certainly not resolved. A majority at a meeting made a decision and then someone apparently made a booboo in interpretation (or otherwise).

The organization needs to present a resolution and include all the facets of the issue so they may move forward with a vote and get on with hunting.

I wish them well.

Sounds a bit like the US Congress making laws and leaving them up to the beurocrats to interpret.

 

[BRICKBURN]

"There are huge wells just waiting to blow out. "
Um, that sounds a bit ominous... ?

Giraffe, Leopard, etc, etc. etc.

 

[BRICKBURN]

Sounds a bit like the US Congress making laws and leaving them up to the beurocrats to interpret.

Maybe someone took a page from the USFWS play book.

 

[IdaRam]

Giraffe, Leopard, etc, etc. etc.

Ah, gotcha.

 

[Dragan N.]

@Red Leg, I said apparently I'm the evil bastard for what I have done.
There are few people on here whom I respects opinion more than yours. However, every time this topic comes up your opinion states that I'm some type of immoral unethical asshole for what I have done and what I do for a living. So yes, it does strike a nerve. If that's how you feel fine but I will never apologize for what I have done or what I do for a living. I am blessed to now be able to hunt for a living. The fact is old Africa is mostly gone and that that is left is financially unobtainable for the vast majority of us, so we do what we can to get the best experience for us and our family possible.
My lion hunt was absolutely fair chase and unless someone was there when it happened and saw something unethical happen, which it most certainly didn't, they have absolutely no right to say any different.
I also get pretty damned tired of having to justify my actions and way of life to people who have absolutely no right to judge me.
Anyone who knows me or has hunted with me knows where I stand and what I believe in. If someone wants to judge I challenge them to spend some time with me before passing judgement.
Also for the record, I know how to spell thou however those of us who work 24/7 365 tend to have to post from our iPhones often times and don't always catch auto corrects. (Kind of an oxymoron really as they often are more wrong than right).

Gizmo, not to veer this topic even more off topic but the bolded part for most species isn't true. A hunt in wild Zimbabwe which is as close to old Africa as you can basically get today will for most species cost about the same as a fenced South African game farm hunt. A cape buffalo hunt in Zimbabwe and South Africa for example are in most cases pretty close in price.

The only two exceptions I can think of are:
Rhino- I think South Africa is like the only country you can hunt white rhino on a regular basis. Black and white rhino come up elsewhere but its on a case by case or sporadic basis and the fees are astronomical.

Lion- Yes a lion hunt in South Africa is significantly cheaper than elsewhere.

But for all the other species the cost is roughly the same (i.e. Zim. vs. SA).

 

[gizmo]

Gizmo, not to veer this topic even more off topic but the bolded part for most species isn't true. A hunt in wild Zimbabwe which is as close to old Africa as you can basically get today will for most species cost about the same as a fenced South African game farm hunt. A cape buffalo hunt in Zimbabwe and South Africa for example are in most cases pretty close in price.

The only two exceptions I can think of are:
Rhino- I think South Africa is like the only country you can hunt white rhino on a regular basis. Black and white rhino come up elsewhere but its on a case by case or sporadic basis and the fees are astronomical.

Lion- Yes a lion hunt in South Africa is significantly cheaper than elsewhere.

But for all the other species the cost is roughly the same (i.e. Zim. vs. SA).

And here we are specifically talking about lions. I do agree that Zimbabwe is certainly the best priced out of the wild African country's but... by the time you add in the higher daily rates in most cases as well as air charters when necessary or have to pay for pickup/drop off most of us can get more bang for the buck is RSA. I'm not saying this as an insult to Zimbabwe as it is without a doubt a destination I dream of making one day but, you're going to be hard pressed to find a 4K dollar 5 animal package in Zimbabwe. The only reason I get to come back to Africa next summer is because of the pricing I was able to get in SA and that's for free range kudu in Limpopo none the less. I agree a buff hunt in Zim can be frequently had for the same or close to SA. Many tuskless ele fall into that category. Before leopards were shut down in SA they were roughly the same. Plains game packages however, not even close. PG is significantly cheaper in SA with more species offered. Mind you the exotic species are not necessarily native. Roan and sable fall into this category. Neither species can be touched anywhere else for the same prices. Now I will absolutely give you that in Moz, Zim, Zam, etc... you are paying for the experience which is probably second to none in many cases. My point is and was most people like myself cannot afford to hunt outside of SA or Namibia in many case due to cost all things being equal. It took my entire life to save for my buff, lion, and pg safari with my family and I can garauntee that the hunt could not have been done anywhere outside of SA for even remotely close to what I paid for it.

 

[gizmo]

At the end of the day it matters not one bit to me where, why, and how others hunt provided they do so within the laws of the places they hunt. I am no different that anyone else in that I dream of safaris in what is left of wild Africa. Unfortunately for me and many other it is not a readily obtainable thing. I want to believe I will get to one day and I feel I will but in the mean time I will hunt SA as it's what I can afford at the moment. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Hunting SA and it's a personal choice that I make. I will however jump on the opportunity to hunt other African countries when it arises. For what it's worth a person could hunt a lifetime in SA and probably not scratch the surface of what SA has to offer.
Again this is where I get irritated as some, whether intentionally or not, come across as superior to those who would hunt lowly SA. Where people hunt is a choice they make and it's their right to do so. There is nothing wrong with that either. If one only wants to hunt Tanzania so be it but it doesn't make them anymore or less of a hunter than anyone else.

 

[tigris115]

As someone who's not really intune with the discussion, is hunting bred lions the most controversial thing in African hunting?

 

[gizmo]

As someone who's not really intune with the discussion, is hunting bred lions the most controversial thing in African hunting?

It certainly appears that way. Wow are there so many other things we could be focusing attention on that may actually help us out.

 

[Royal27]

As someone who's not really intune with the discussion, is hunting bred lions the most controversial thing in African hunting?

For South African hunting (only place in Africa it's legal) if it isn't number one, it's in the top two,

 

[Rule 303]

OK, I have not read the whole thread so some may have already been said. Like we made the 12 pages.

My take. I do not wish to hunt captive bred or fenced in animals. However if it is legal and most importantly, helps with the survival of the species then I will not speak negatively of those who do.

 

[MartyJ]

I am still waiting for someone to explain the difference between captive bred buffalo (or sable, or white tail deer or elk) hunting and captive bred lion hunting.

Some people seem to be of the opinion that once the issue of captive bred lion hunting goes away, those who are against it will be satisfied and will go home quietly to resume their lives, leaving hunters alone forever more.

I am not one of those.

Sorry to contribute to the 12 pages.

You left out the birds my friend. Those pheasants and other upland birds.

 

[Hank2211]

You left out the birds my friend. Those pheasants and other upland birds.

I did leave birds out, even though I belong to a pheasant club. Most likely because no hunters I know or hunters association seem to object to raising birds for the sole purpose of shooting them.

Note that I could have said "killing them" instead of "shooting them", but then you might have thought I was talking about the billions of chickens and other birds we raise soley to kill. One seems acceptable, the other not.

Not sure it a makes the slightest difference to the bird, and it sure doesn't to me, but it does to some. Same arguments apply, but since we are over our allotted 12 pages (who was that pessimist who thought this would (only) go to 12 pages anyway?), it's time for me to quit.

 

[cagkt3]

I did leave birds out, even though I belong to a pheasant club. Most likely because no hunters I know or hunters association seem to object to raising birds for the sole purpose of shooting them.

Note that I could have said "killing them" instead of "shooting them", but then you might have thought I was talking about the billions of chickens and other birds we raise soley to kill. One seems acceptable, the other not.

Not sure it a makes the slightest difference to the bird, and it sure doesn't to me, but it does to some. Same arguments apply, but since we are over our allotted 12 pages (who was that pessimist who thought this would (only) go to 12 pages anyway?), it's time for me to quit.

Don't forget Hank that when some of us are shooting, those raised birds have a pretty good chance of flying off free as a bird (pun intended)

 

[siml]

@Hank2211 99% of the time, it's a given that birds are eaten, doesn't seem to count for the other animals.

 

[lwaters]

As kids we would cut off the chickens head between to nails in a stump. My dad would get mad if we let them run. He claimed it bruised the meat.