Politics

[RLD]

Its incredibly hard to deny that Jesus was a living historical figure.. he is not only acknowledged by the Christian faith, but also by the Jewish faith and the Muslim faith.. and there are NUMEROUS historical documents that are NOT tied to any faith that speak to his existence.. I dont think anyone that is even remotely educated or capable of reading history can deny that there was a man that walked the earth in the first century that was named Jesus that was a religious leader that was ultimately executed by the Romans.. there are far too many validated and verified historical documents that prove it..

The only question is.. was he God? a prophet? a very wise and learned Rabbi? or just some guy that convinced others to follow him?

Flavious Josephus, a Jewish historian, speaks about Jesus twice in his historical account Jewish Antiquities. He talks about the crucifixion and that Jesus was a "wise" man capable of "surprising deeds"..

Tacitus, a Roman historian wrote in his Annals that Jesus was executed by Pontius Pilate during Tiberious's reign..

Suetonieus, another Roman historian wrote about disturbances happening in Rome that were caused by followers of Jesus after his crucifixion

Thallus a greco-roman historian wrote about the day of Jesus' crucifixion.. etc..

None of these people early Christians.. they were all historians that were simply documenting things happening in their time, and the impacts of those happenings on Rome, the middle east, and the rest of the world..

While no actual documents drafted or written by Pontius Pilate are known to exist (havent been found), there are several accounts from others that were close to Pilate that have documented the impact of the trial and execution of Jesus on Pilate that confirm the trial and execution happened.

This gives me the impression that you and I have read many of the same books on the subject!

There are some interesting questions around the Josephus document, but overall I think it stands up to scrutiny.

To put it in comparative historical context, there are more documents closer in time, confirming the existence of the historical Christ, than there are documents closer in time confirming the existence of the historical Alexander. But Alexander crushes Jesus in numismatics. So the simple answer to the individual who denies the existence of historical Jesus is "Do you believe Alexander the Great existed?"

 

[Altitude sickness]

If the people youre talking to believe they can do no wrong or that they are on a pedestal.. sincerely, youre talking to the wrong people..

I know a lot of very staunchly pro-Israel people..

But I dont know anyone that thinks they are necessarily a close friend or worthy of pedestal placement..

I myself am pro Israel.. for US strategic reasons (economic and military mostly)... But.. I trust them about as much as I trust the EU...

Which is to say I dont trust them at all.. I think every single move has to be watched closely.. as they will always act in their own self interest (as most nations should, and do).. and they will screw over their friends in a heartbeat and not lose a wink of sleep over it (which many nations wont do)..

Israel does what’s best for Israel. Just as U.S. citizens wish we could say our government administrations would always do but some have not.

Israel spies on our industry and weapons industries. Usually to gain the remaining percentage of technology we hold back on systems sold to them. If we give Israel 80% capabilities they are constantly trying to get that other 20%.

And the reason we know they spy on us is because we spy on them and learn those things.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Happened to see John Cornyn attending John Hagee's church in San Antonio today, for what that may be worth.

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I have sincere doubts that Iran is/was putting together a nuclear device at this point.

 

[mdwest]

This gives me the impression that you and I have read many of the same books on the subject!

There are some interesting questions around the Josephus document, but overall I think it stands up to scrutiny.

To put it in comparative historical context, there are more documents closer in time, confirming the existence of the historical Christ, than there are documents closer in time confirming the existence of the historical Alexander. But Alexander crushes Jesus in numismatics. So the simple answer to the individual who denies the existence of historical Jesus is "Do you believe Alexander the Great existed?"

One of the coolest things I got to do in Afghanistan was walk a few miles of stone road that Alexander’s army had built on its way to India…

Someone definitely built that road… I personally stood on it… it was definitely not built by the Taliban… and archeologists confirmed its build date to be +/- 330 BC and to be of Greek/Macedonian design… as such, I’m pretty certain Alexander was real

One of the coolest things I got to experience in Turkey was a “historical” tour of Ephesus.. while historically they could not pinpoint where exactly Mary lived, they had numerous validated historical records and accounts of Mary and John both arriving and remaining in Ephesus sometime after 40 AD… if there are historical records of Mary, the mother of Jesus, and John, an apostle of Jesus traveling together and reaching Turkey a few years after Jesus’s recorded death by crucifixion, I see that as further evidence that Jesus was not a fictitious character, but indeed a historical figure that absolutely lived, and died on a cross…. Otherwise why would anyone care, or bother to record the arrival of a couple of random Jews in Turkey years later? They were not of significance to the world at large… but they were hugely significant to growing Christian community in Ephesus..

If they were real people, it’s pretty hard to deny that Jesus was also very real..

 

[cwpayton]

The enrichment program was certainly bombed hard, but the material they already had left was enough to build several warheads. Most news networks have covered this.

Dont forget China had trucks running day and night from the nuke sight before the B-2s struck. I think there were sat pictures of them making the trips.

 

[RLD]

One of the coolest things I got to do in Afghanistan was walk a few miles of stone road that Alexander’s army had built on its way to India…

Someone definitely built that road… I personally stood on it… it was definitely not built by the Taliban… and archeologists confirmed its build date to be +/- 330 BC and to be of Greek/Macedonian design… as such, I’m pretty certain Alexander was real

One of the coolest things I got to experience in Turkey was a “historical” tour of Ephesus.. while historically they could not pinpoint where exactly Mary lived, they had numerous validated historical records and accounts of Mary and John both arriving and remaining in Ephesus sometime after 40 AD… if there are historical records of Mary, the mother of Jesus, and John, an apostle of Jesus traveling together and reaching Turkey a few years after Jesus’s recorded death by crucifixion, I see that as further evidence that Jesus was not a fictitious character, but indeed a historical figure that absolutely lived, and died on a cross…. Otherwise why would anyone care, or bother to record the arrival of a couple of random Jews in Turkey years later? They were not of significance to the world at large… but they were hugely significant to growing Christian community in Ephesus..

If they were real people, it’s pretty hard to deny that Jesus was also very real..

Ephesus is an amazing place. Well worth the time to go there for multiple reasons.

There are also a ton of great sites in Jordan. The church where they say Jesus was baptized, Mount Nebo, and a bunch more. If you have never been I highly recommend it.

There really is something special to being right there, where history was made, in person. It gives you a whole new perspective.

Have you read "A Marginal Jew"? I have finished the first three volumes and am trying to make time for the last two. If you havn't I bet you would really get a lot out of it.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Hopefully Rubio’s talks with China convinces them that if they don’t tell Iran to stand down regarding the straits.

Bluntly stated. “ If Iran puts holes in ships. The U.S. will end all Iranian oil production and refining. Done, kaput, no oil coming from Iran to China.

Of course oil prices would surge. But it would harm China more than the U.S.

China is the key to the Straits

 

[PARA45]

My parents visited Mary’s Home in Ephesus, while on a cruise and they went on this tour to visit. The Latin community is a serious devout of the Virgin Mary. I’m glad they were able to visit.

 

[mdwest]

Ephesus is an amazing place. Well worth the time to go there for multiple reasons.

There are also a ton of great sites in Jordan. The church where they say Jesus was baptized, Mount Nebo, and a bunch more. If you have never been I highly recommend it.

There really is something special to being right there, where history was made, in person. It gives you a whole new perspective.

Have you read "A Marginal Jew"? I have finished the first three volumes and am trying to make time for the last two. If you havn't I bet you would really get a lot out of it.

I walked up Mt Nebo in 2004.. I was on my way into Iraq but got held up in Amman for about a week before I was able to move on to Baghdad..

Was pretty cool standing next to the cross and looking into the "promised land" knowing that I was somewhere pretty close to where Moses likely stood when he peered in and was told he wouldnt be allowed to enter..

The little byzantine church that was built in the 4th century on top of Mt Nebo was pretty neat to visit as well..

Between 2004-2010 I probably visited Jordan 15-20 times.. usually just there for 1-2 days doing things before heading in or out of Iraq.. but there were a couple of visits where I was there for as long as a week or more.. I genuinely love that country..

The mexican restaurant in the Intercon hotel, Cinco de Mayo, is honestly one of the best Tex-Mex places Ive ever eaten at (and I have been in TX for 12 years lol)..

Getting a crown replaced on one of my teeth by a Yemini dentist that had a clinic in Amman might have been the worst dental experience of my life though lol..

I havent read A Marginal Jew.. I'll pick up a copy.. I just googled it.. it sounds interesting..

 

[mdwest]

My parents visited Mary’s Home in Ephesus, while on a cruise and they went on this tour to visit. The Latin community is a serious devout of the Virgin Mary. I’m glad they were able to visit.

We visited the house as well... what we were told was there was no absolute concrete evidence that it was Marys house.. but there was a lot of circumstantial evidence, and that they were certain that her home was in the immediate area.. so no doubt that if that particular house wasnt hers, she most certainly was in or around it at some time, and definitely was a "neighbor", if not the actual occupant..

It was a really neat experience..

One of my daughters is starting a masters in biblical archeology at a Christian university next semester.. whats funny is she really isnt all that religious.. but, she is fascinated with the time period surrounding the New Testament.. The school participates in active digs in Israel, Jordan, Turkey, and Italy and typically the masters students spend their summers at the dig sites volunteering.. Shes super fired up about the opportunity to do Italy and Turkey (much more than any opportunity to do Jordan or Israel)..

 

[cwpayton]

you can also be a non-Christian, and still agree that Jesus was a living historical figure.

Aaron N​

well spoken. There were "Multitudes" of jews in his day who saw him and knew him as a man who did great things. but didnt believe he was God in the Flesh Matt. 13-14. lest this discussion mislead anyone ,the question is , The only question is.." was he God," mdwest. and did he do what he said, and what the disciples said ," he arose from the dead." Proving himself God and conqueror of death ,hell and grave. Luke 24-8=12. this requires Faith. Romans 3-24, 26,28.. this is the Gospel simplified in a nut , but the nut is a seed and the seed will produce a tree if believed upon. Most all the bible is a historical document in one sense, of course much more than that, but why do we need Josephus to verify anything. oh to prove the Christ or Bible,? I THINK NOT. Isaiah, the Psalsms prophesied of Christ 1 Thousand year earlier but who believed.??Rom.11-7.

 

[cwpayton]

I walked up Mt Nebo in 2004.. I was on my way into Iraq but got held up in Amman for about a week before I was able to move on to Baghdad..

Was pretty cool standing next to the cross and looking into the "promised land" knowing that I was somewhere pretty close to where Moses likely stood when he peered in and was told he wouldnt be allowed to enter..

The little byzantine church that was built in the 4th century on top of Mt Nebo was pretty neat to visit as well..

Between 2004-2010 I probably visited Jordan 15-20 times.. usually just there for 1-2 days doing things before heading in or out of Iraq.. but there were a couple of visits where I was there for as long as a week or more.. I genuinely love that country..

The mexican restaurant in the Intercon hotel, Cinco de Mayo, is honestly one of the best Tex-Mex places Ive ever eaten at (and I have been in TX for 12 years lol)..

Getting a crown replaced on one of my teeth by a Yemini dentist that had a clinic in Amman might have been the worst dental experience of my life though lol..

I havent read A Marginal Jew.. I'll pick up a copy.. I just googled it.. it sounds interesting..

When Im really starving ,WHATEVER restaurant I dine at is the best place IVE EVER eaten .L O L Throw in a cool atmosphere and ,unforgettable.

 

[Woodcarver]

You are welcome to use what you want, and I have no dog in this fight, but surely it is obvious how the use of AD in particular, would be nonsensical to someone who does not accept Jesus as Lord, and offensive to some who follows some other religion?

The use of BC & AD in reference dates has been the norm for a millennium. In both religious and secular circles. Why should we change simply because in today's time, the year 2026 AD, there are a few who have decided to be offended? Why don't we decide to call the grass blue, and the sky green?

Just because you are Christian, do you really expect the whole world to accept your worldview? Do you reject the separation of church and state?

It has been the worldview for many centuries longer than I have existed.
The separation of church and state has been misconstrued for decades, maybe a century. Find that reference in the Constitution for us, will you? What the Constitution prohibits is a State sponsored religion (think, Church of England). Recognizing the foundation of our laws and society is not sponsoring a religion.

The great thing about C.E. and B.C.E. is it allows academics and professionals in cultures that are not Christian to have interchanges with the Christian west based on our calendars (not theirs which are often quite different) without having to use concepts they don't accept.

Academics and professionals have been having interchanges with the west, using our calendar, for centuries. CE and BCE are new concepts, developed by a woke few. Why should the rest of the world kowtow to their concepts that offend a larger percentage of the world?

You should be aware that the term Common Era was used long before anyone even conceived the term "woke."

The term woke has simply become a recognized term in modern use to describe the more extreme left element of society at large. Common Era is a term that segment of society invented. What is ironic about them coming up with that term is, it still revolves around the birth of Jesus. So, why change a convention that has been in common global use for the last millennium just to satisfy the idiocy of a minority of society that wants to be offended by the use of BC and AD? Sorry, that offends a much larger segment of society, for no useful purpose.

 

[RLD]

The use of BC & AD in reference dates has been the norm for a millennium. In both religious and secular circles. Why should we change simply because in today's time, the year 2026 AD, there are a few who have decided to be offended? Why don't we decide to call the grass blue, and the sky green?

Do you realize that there is a world with literally billions of people in it outside of the Christian west that have never used those terms you want to claim was the global standard?

Do you really believe that for "a millennium" people in China, India, Japan, Africa, South America and Australia used the terms BC and AD? Mongols, Persians, Vikings? All using AD. Seriously man wtf?

I bet you would be a tad offended if some low brow fanatic was insisting that you should count time by the number of years since the migration of Mohammed the Chosen? Would you like your history books full of that term? Or how about the years from the Inauguration of the Yellow Emperor?

Would you be comfortable using a system that required you to write and say that Mohammed was the one true prophet as part of your work or studies or publications?

I guess if your society is mighty small, and mighty closed, and likes to pretend different people don't exist than a large segment of society might be offended by those terms, but that would just be a small group of ill informed people who chose to ignore the broader world.

So unless you define "global use" as "Christian West" you are simply wrong in your assertion.

Even in the Christian West those terms have not been universal for a thousand years. The reason the term Common Era was first used was to make it simpler to communicate on time than a very widely used system of counting years from the birth of various kings in Germany. Eastern Orthodox and Russia adopted it much later too. The C.E. system is not a 2026 thing, it has existed for centuries.

The only offensive thing going on here is the level of ignorance and ethnocentrism your post shows. I guess it is de rigueur for angry uneducated people to cry "woke" or babble about "the extreme left" is in some great conspiracy against them, but dude this one is so pathetic you won't even get an invite to the oppression olympics let alone a medal.

 

[Betterinthebush]

If they were real people, it’s pretty hard to deny that Jesus is also very real..

No past tense for Jesus. He defeated death and reigns.

But I do understand your historical contextualization.

 

[fourfive8]

So for the self-proclaimed scholars… exactly what historical marker should be used to index or reference year zero? BCE is simply a pseudo term invented to stand in place of BC by rare air secularists of the intellectual class in a thinly veiled attempt to avoid some straw man argument about a religious inference that didn’t exist to begin with.

 

[Red Leg]

The level of ignorance among journalists is often amusing were it not that so many of their viewers are even more clueless. The latest charge that half a dozen liberal outlets have proffered over the last 24 hours is that Trump is prosecuting a "racist" war against Iran. That coordination is remarkable.

As upset as the Iranians must be with the administration, I am not sure they are prepared to be lumped together with their semitic neighbors -religiously yes - particularly the Arab Shia - put ethnically or racially? The Iranians are Persian and wait for it - Indo European Aryans. The term Aryan actually originates in the ancient Persian language and the name Iran comes from the Farsi term for Land of the Aryans. It is one reason that Himmler and the SS were so fascinated with Iran and its history.

Yes, Persia was the center of vast empire, and numerous peoples blended into the modern population. But no Persian considers himself part of some made up "brown" race. Farsi, the language spoken in Persia is Indo-European. Yes, it uses the Arabic alphabet, but the language has more in common with English than Arabic.

So if we are to believe the race lady in the clip below and others from MSNBC and Joy Reid, evil white Trump is prosecuting a race war against Aryans while supporting regional Semitic Jewish and Arab allies ........

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2027527331311644

 

[fourfive8]

And to the original premise. So, @RLD, exactly what event should we use to index year zero? Perhaps BGK/AGK, before/after Genghis Khan. Or you pick it… maybe some early Chinese emperor like BHC/AHC, before/after Hung Cao. Good grief, why suffer such a stupid debate!

 

[Brent in Az]

Israel's foreign minister challenges Irans Mojtaba to show his face.

 

[tinktink12]