IMPORTANT: Immediate Changes to South African Firearm Registration Guidelines for American Hunters

[robertq]

I'm interested to know what the SAP require of residents of Europe or Australia, for example. Is there a document they provide that is the equivalent of the US 4457?

Exactly.....

 

[Areaonereal]

Last year the SAPS requirement that the issue date(signage by Customs) be no later than 6 months prior to arrival. Now it seems the date of signage must be the same calendar year, as per noted in Henry's email.

 

[Areaonereal]

Here's an email I just got from Henry rifle permits. Update on the CBP 4457 form:

I had a meeting this morning with the SA Police, I tried to explain to them
that the CBP4457 customs form cannot expire but they are adamant that they
want the latest signed form if a client wants to apply for a permit, so for
now the following will apply:

1. The date in the top right corner does not matter, even if the date
has expired the SA Police wont consider this date.

2. They want a 2017 signed form, so the date on the bottom off the form
when the CBP officer signed the form must reflect the date stating 2017, so
it must be a recently signed form.

3. They have informally given us until the end of April to rectify
these issues.

4. This is currently the situation, all clients must have recently
signed forms, dated 2017.

5. I will therefore also suggest that the client in any case just
obtain a new CBP4457 customs form reflecting the correct date in the top
right corner, latest form can be downloaded from our website.

I do have a follow up meeting again with them Monday morning and will keep
you informed.

Kind regards
Henry

This pretty much sums up the requirements by SAPS for utilizing a 4457 for firearms permits for this year. Regardless f the expiration date(of no relevance ) the Customs office Stamp and Signature must reflect it was executed in 2017. Like it or not, agree with it or not, that is what SAPS requires, of course it could be used again any time in and valid thru the end of 2017. Appears to be pretty straightforward ,, so you would need a updated stamp and signatures 4457 for future year by year.

 

[Areaonereal]

Google. How to complete saps 520. It will give a step by step detail, scroll down until you find what is an acceptable form of proof of ownership. This says it all, straightforward, a 4457 may be used if US resident, but it may be other forms other than a 4457.

 

[wesheltonj]

Folks, we can bitch and moan all we want about the validity of the form. But is SAPS say's jump 4 feet in the air before we release your gun what are you going to do? Jump 4 feet. The only ones with any power to change this is RSA citizens. They are the ones that need to explain to SAPS about the loss of revenue (meet and greet fees, etc.) to South Africans from this change, they could care less about the inconvenience of Americans that come to their country to kill off their resources. And how much weight do you think the ANC is going to care about loss of income to the white game farmers or the white meet and greet owners . . NONE. Unless it involves their cut.

 

[Areaonereal]

My sentiments exactly, play their game by their rules, or go home. What choice is there.

Folks, we can bitch and moan all we want about the validity of the form. But is SAPS say's jump 4 feet in the air before we release your gun what are you going to do? Jump 4 feet. The only ones with any power to change this is RSA citizens. They are the ones that need to explain to SAPS about the loss of revenue (meet and greet fees, etc.) to South Africans from this change, they could care less about the inconvenience of Americans that come to their country to kill off their resources. And how much weight do you think the ANC is going to care about loss of income to the white game farmers or the white meet and greet owners . . NONE. Unless it involves their cut.

 

[Hogpatrol]

I sent a nice, polite, loving email to the Minister of Tourism about this issue. To whit, you have a great country, great people and us Americans want you to do well, that not only do we like hunting, we like that it helps support many thousands of people who would otherwise be unemployed. I await their reply.

As an aside, I read in a RSA newspaper that hunters coming to South Africa's are way down from the peak while Namibia's are UP! I'll see if I can dig up the story and paste it here.

From financialmail website, Story headline is Hunting: The colour game is over.
https://www.businesslive.co.za/fm/features/2017-01-26-colour-game-is-over/

In 2014, the latest year for which data is available, 7,638 foreign hunters came to SA, less than half the best-yet figures of 16,394 in 2006.

The big winner is Namibia, a country free of canned hunting and colour variants.

“Foreign-hunter numbers to Namibia grew from 6,300 in 2007 to 23,768 in 2014,” says Flack

 

[johnnyblues]

I sent a nice, polite, loving email to the Minister of Tourism about this issue. To whit, you have a great country, great people and us Americans want you to do well, that not only do we like hunting, we like that it helps support many thousands of people who would otherwise be unemployed. I await their reply.

As an aside, I read in a RSA newspaper that hunters coming to South Africa's are way down from the peak while Namibia's are UP! I'll see if I can dig up the story and paste it here.

From financialmail website, Story headline is Hunting: The colour game is over.
https://www.businesslive.co.za/fm/features/2017-01-26-colour-game-is-over/

In 2014, the latest year for which data is available, 7,638 foreign hunters came to SA, less than half the best-yet figures of 16,394 in 2006.

The big winner is Namibia, a country free of canned hunting and colour variants.

“Foreign-hunter numbers to Namibia grew from 6,300 in 2007 to 23,768 in 2014,” says Flack

Namibia is a fabulous place to hunt. The only correction is ther are farm with color variant animals. I saw many golden oryx.

 

[robertq]

I sent a nice, polite, loving email to the Minister of Tourism about this issue. To whit, you have a great country, great people and us Americans want you to do well, that not only do we like hunting, we like that it helps support many thousands of people who would otherwise be unemployed. I await their reply.

As an aside, I read in a RSA newspaper that hunters coming to South Africa's are way down from the peak while Namibia's are UP! I'll see if I can dig up the story and paste it here.

From financialmail website, Story headline is Hunting: The colour game is over.
https://www.businesslive.co.za/fm/features/2017-01-26-colour-game-is-over/

In 2014, the latest year for which data is available, 7,638 foreign hunters came to SA, less than half the best-yet figures of 16,394 in 2006.

The big winner is Namibia, a country free of canned hunting and colour variants.

“Foreign-hunter numbers to Namibia grew from 6,300 in 2007 to 23,768 in 2014,” says Flack

You are correct........ the last two years RSA hunting is in decline while Namibia is up ......

 

[Areaonereal]

We are hunting Namibia this year, but flying thru Joberg with an overnite and next day flight to Windhoek we still have to clear SAPS with our firearms, no different than if we were hunting in SA. Wish there were an alternative for transiting thru an overnite.

 

[wesheltonj]

We are hunting Namibia this year, but flying thru Joberg with an overnite and next day flight to Windhoek we still have to clear SAPS with our firearms, no different than if we were hunting in SA. Wish there were an alternative for transiting thru an overnite.

There is its called Emirates.

 

[Royal27]

If I recall correctly nobody in South Africa asked for my 4457 upon arrival.
If I recall correctly!!!!! lol

I've read all the posts and I'm scratching my head. I've been through Joburg SAPS four times in the last four years and was never asked to see a 4457 by ANYBODY!

I've been three times and have never showed the 4457 in the country either, only upon return to the states.

Here's an email I just got from Henry rifle permits. Update on the CBP 4457 form:

I had a meeting this morning with the SA Police, I tried to explain to them
that the CBP4457 customs form cannot expire but they are adamant that they
want the latest signed form if a client wants to apply for a permit, so for
now the following will apply:

1. The date in the top right corner does not matter, even if the date
has expired the SA Police wont consider this date.

2. They want a 2017 signed form, so the date on the bottom off the form
when the CBP officer signed the form must reflect the date stating 2017, so
it must be a recently signed form.

3. They have informally given us until the end of April to rectify
these issues.

4. This is currently the situation, all clients must have recently
signed forms, dated 2017.

5. I will therefore also suggest that the client in any case just
obtain a new CBP4457 customs form reflecting the correct date in the top
right corner, latest form can be downloaded from our website.

I do have a follow up meeting again with them Monday morning and will keep
you informed.

Kind regards
Henry

I wonder if what is really required by SAPS is the 4457 without an expiration date in order to receive a PRE-APPROVAL? I've done it both ways and don't personally see much reason for the pre-approval unless I have a connecting flight.

I wouldn't test my theory right now, but I also wouldn't be surprised if I'm right.

I also agree that for now everyone should suck it up and deal with it. That being said, I'd also like to know what PHASA is doing to address the issue with SAPS. This should be a big enough issue to have conversations at the highest levels. @Leopards Valley Safaris , any idea what is being done, of anything?

 

[Areaonereal]

From where I fly from it adds way too many hours and hassle to connect. Going thru Chicago with a rifle...lucky if it does not end up on the south side for Saturday nite entertainment, not worth to me to deal with Ohare and layover in Doha. I will just deal with SAPS

 

[daved]

@Royal I have got the email and it has been circulated . I believe that PHASA is involved with talks with SAPS.
I will have more answers in a few days. Once again we have a situation where PHASA is fighting for the WHOLE hunting industry.

Food for thought though to all the outfitters who do not belong to PHASA. They love to critique the organization but when something like this happens that affects us ALL. Suddenly it's what is PHASA doing?
I urge all outfitters to join PHASA and help them to do more . Join and support the fight for our right to hunt

 

[DE KLERK SAFARIS]

That's funny ..... the 4457 is for the return to the USA.......... not for leaving.....

So what is RSA doing about other countries coming in with firearms. ???????? I wonder if this is because of what is going on with FWS and Africa ?????

Robert the South African government needs proof of ownership that you are really the owner of said firearm. Because USA citizens are in the lucky position of not having a license for every rifle they own the only way USA citizens can prove ownership is with the 4457 Customs form.
Hope it helps.
Sincerely
Hans de Klerk

 

[IdaRam]

I don't like it, but I have to agree with what a few folks have already posted here. Their country, their rules. But I am also 10 minutes from a C&BP office where the folks are always helpful and accommodating. Usually excited to check out the guns and find out about the hunting trip. If I had a multi hour round trip just to get another piece of paper I would be pissed off too.

 

[IdaRam]

I also agree, whatever we can do to help change the situation by getting involved and urging organizations such as SCI, DSC, NRA etc to work with SA authorities to fix the situation is the only way we will see change.
Has anyone ever had a Customs official check their firearms serial numbers against the stolen guns database when getting a 4457? I can't say that I recall them doing that.

 

[mdwest]

I don't like it, but I have to agree with what a few folks have already posted here. Their country, their rules. But I am also 10 minutes from a C&BP office where the folks are always helpful and accommodating. Usually excited to check out the guns and find out about the hunting trip. If I had a multi hour round trip just to get another piece of paper I would be pissed off too.

Totally agree.. their country, their rules..

and Im also just 15 minutes away from a C&BP office.. so it would be a pretty easy fix for me if I needed a new 4457 (thankfully I just got a new 4457 completed in February.. so Im good under the "new" rule)..

That said.. as noted earlier in this thread.. the # of US hunters traveling to South Africa each year is already in decline.. while the number traveling to Namibia is up...

Keep making things more and more difficult.. and my guess is South Africa isnt going to see a change in that pattern.. It might even get worse..

"New" hunters to the international hunting market may still continue to favor SA.. it is easier to get to for most people.. the country is more developed than all of its neighbors and a bit less concerning for people to travel to that havent spent much time in Africa before, etc..etc..

But I think youll potentially see more veteran hunters waive off and make decisions to go elsewhere..

Most people will tolerate a little inconvenience and hassle and not complain much.. but... if you start making it a real PIA for me to spend thousands upon thousands of dollars in your local economy.. I'll take my money somewhere else where I feel it is more valued and appreciated..

 

[Hogpatrol]

I checked with my permit agency and was told I need the new "updated" form BUT if I take a firearm with the undated forms from my 2013 hunt (I will be taking one of those), they are good to go. I'm beginning to feel like one of those persons lost in the Twilight Zone. At any rate, I'm getting the new forms to CMA.

 

[Royal27]

@Royal I have got the email and it has been circulated . I believe that PHASA is involved with talks with SAPS.
I will have more answers in a few days. Once again we have a situation where PHASA is fighting for the WHOLE hunting industry.

Food for thought though to all the outfitters who do not belong to PHASA. They love to critique the organization but when something like this happens that affects us ALL. Suddenly it's what is PHASA doing?
I urge all outfitters to join PHASA and help them to do more . Join and support the fight for our right to hunt

Thanks Dave!

I wasn't trying to put you on the spot, but you're the most connected outfitter I know when it comes to PHASA.

And I agree on involvement. You have to work to change what you don't like!