IMPORTANT: Immediate Changes to South African Firearm Registration Guidelines for American Hunters

[Therack]

My scopes have a serial number on them. Is anyone listing the scope serial number along with the guns serial number on the 4457? My scopes are dedicated to the rifle, I don't switch them around.

 

[johnnyblues]

I always have and did it again today. CBP said it's not a bad idea to do they.

 

[Areaonereal]

I do , but was told by local Customs that there was no import duty on scopes, so it was not necessary. I have locally the absolute best CBP officer that anyone could ask for. A one man office. He is retiring in a coule of years and I will miss his common sense approach.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Same here. On one form the rifle and scope serial numbers get recorded. I do switch scopes around. Fortunately I'm fifteen minutes from Customs near the Wilmington, DE airport. Guys there are super, efficient and very interested in the hunts. My guess is they get very few 4457 requests for firearms.
On a related note, I take copies of the forms with me on stateside hunting trips too.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Nope had to see my guns! Pain in the ass for sure

When I started my Africa adventures I was told to stay as far away as possible from NY and NJ POEs. If I heard one horror story about taking firearms through JFK, LaGuardia or Newark I've heard a hundred of them. Same goes for importing trophies. Johnnyblues, you have my sympathy having to deal with those bureaucrats.

 

[johnnyblues]

Here's an email I just got from Henry rifle permits. Update on the CBP 4457 form:

I had a meeting this morning with the SA Police, I tried to explain to them
that the CBP4457 customs form cannot expire but they are adamant that they
want the latest signed form if a client wants to apply for a permit, so for
now the following will apply:

1. The date in the top right corner does not matter, even if the date
has expired the SA Police wont consider this date.

2. They want a 2017 signed form, so the date on the bottom off the form
when the CBP officer signed the form must reflect the date stating 2017, so
it must be a recently signed form.

3. They have informally given us until the end of April to rectify
these issues.

4. This is currently the situation, all clients must have recently
signed forms, dated 2017.

5. I will therefore also suggest that the client in any case just
obtain a new CBP4457 customs form reflecting the correct date in the top
right corner, latest form can be downloaded from our website.

I do have a follow up meeting again with them Monday morning and will keep
you informed.

Kind regards
Henry

 

[Areaonereal]

It appears to me that if planning to travel to or thru SA with a firearm, you will, in the future need an updated 4457 with the then current year's issue date. I still believe it is acceptable to have a signed and notarized document from the chief county law enforcement officer declaring ownership of the firearm, thus eliminating the need for a 4457, until reentry to the US. Reading the SAPS instruction doc regarding completion of the form mentions a 4457 may be used in place of document proving ownership. This would be easier for many that do not have convenient access to Customs. The 4457 is proof of ownership in the eyes of SAPS, no other country uses a 4457, so how do Europeans satisfy the requirement, with a document issued by law enforcement. I am sure Henry could confirm.

 

[robertq]

OK....... when is the American going to stand up in unity and say "WE HAVE HAD ENOUGH.".....All that ever get's accomplished is that everyone posts this on the internet........ Instead of posting all this on the net...... send it to SCI,DSC,HSC,NRAand tell the to fight for US.....
All CBP have to do is delete the date .... It's the same form and the same info...... So why do you have to pack you firearm and personal items take time out of your day to go to the airport and then come back for your trip !!!! And the form that haveis the one with the expired date .... Just venting I fight very hard for the industry I love but we need numbers.......

 

[Hogpatrol]

This reminds me of the famous quote in Alice In Wonderland, "curiouser and curiouser". Then again it's government. What can one expect?

 

[johnnyblues]

OK....... when is the American going to stand up in unity and say "WE HAVE HAD ENOUGH.".....All that ever get's accomplished is that everyone posts this on the internet........ Instead of posting all this on the net...... send it to SCI,DSC,HSC,NRAand tell the to fight for US.....
All CBP have to do is delete the date .... It's the same form and the same info...... So why do you have to pack you firearm and personal items take time out of your day to go to the airport and then come back for your trip !!!! And the form that haveis the one with the expired date .... Just venting I fight very hard for the industry I love but we need numbers.......

Amen Robert

 

[rookhawk]

My answer: yes, 4457 your phone, gps, binos, scopes, all serialized items.

The reason: some failing banana republic is going to claim you bought all those fine goods from a tent bazaar at the edge of craplochistan and you owe 400% duty on them to leave their wonderful country with your "new purchases".

Your 4457 proves they were yours all along, nullifying duty. It also can prevent prosecution for arms control since scopes and rangefinders are restricted items that may not be trafficked. You can again prove they were always your personal property.

 

[sierraone]

Guess I am one of the lucky ones, CBP office 20 minutes away in Anacortes, WA, a seaport. A bennie of living near so many ports, I can find a CBP office in any number of towns around here, none farther than hour. I need to get one rifle on the form anyway so may as well get the other one on a new form as well just in case I have to deal with SAPS on the way to Namibia, though we have no layover in JO. If I was taking the same rifles to Namibia that I took to RSA last time I would just use the same forms "expired" or not.

Same for me in Pensacola...20-25 minutes to drive there. It's located in a downtown residential area, not at the airport!

 

[robertq]

This reminds me of the famous quote in Alice In Wonderland, "curiouser and curiouser". Then again it's government. What can one expect?

So why do you pay dues to SCI DSC HSC NRA ????????
When you lose your hunting rights will you say IT"S GOVERNMENT !!!!!!!! LOOK around you .... the EU is stopping the import of hunted trophies.... look at what the USA is going through will hunting and firearms......

 

[Therack]

The new form should say "No expiration" in place of the date in the corner.

 

[Areaonereal]

Well said, Robert. It seems that the expiration date is of no consequence , as per Henry's email, it is the issue date, signage date by the Customs officer, must be current year. As far as a 4457 for personal items....have a separate form stating those items and carry it along in case. Duty is normally paid when entering a country I believe, not when departing, so when entering the US you have the personal property 4457. Personal items may be proven ownership with nothing more than a receipt of purchase, thus replacing a 4457 upon reentry to the US. Still all of this is going to continue to be a PIA, so,we may as well accommodate their wishes, remember we are a guest in their country, although we pay a handsome dollar to enjoy being their guest.

 

[robertq]

Well said, Robert. It seems that the expiration date is of no consequence , as per Henry's email, it is the issue date, signage date by the Customs officer, must be current year. As far as a 4457 for personal items....have a separate form stating those items and carry it along in case. Duty is normally paid when entering a country I believe, not when departing, so when entering the US you have the personal property 4457. Personal items may be proven ownership with nothing more than a receipt of purchase, thus replacing a 4457 upon reentry to the US. Still all of this is going to continue to be a PIA, so,we may as well accommodate their wishes, remember we are a guest in their country, although we pay a handsome dollar to enjoy being their guest.

I'm not disputing the 4457 , I'm disputing the expiration date ...... It said on page 2 of the 4457 it may be used many times........ Do you go to Africa one a week .......

 

[Hogpatrol]

Robert, I contacted my PH, a high up member of the SA PHA and gave him the skinny. Sometimes it's more effective to have someone in country raise the issue instead of a U.S. based organization.

Rant mode ON. As far as SCI? They dropped the ball on the Cecil bruhaha and instead of pressing the issue, they are now just advising us to get the new form. From this chair, that organization needs a clean sweep of the good ol' boy network. They've lost touch with their members, sort of like the politicians that have been in office too long.
Rant mode OFF.

What I want to know is if you are going in January or February and need to get the permit a couple months in advance, what do you get CBP to do, post date it?

 

[robertq]

Hogpatrol, I applaud you for helping in the matter. I will be attending a meeting on Tuesday in NYC with the United States Delagationfor CIC and I'm going to give them an ear fulll..... In will keep everyone posted......

 

[Therack]

I'm interested to know what the SAP require of residents of Europe or Australia, for example. Is there a document they provide that is the equivalent of the US 4457?

 

[JimP]

OK, here is a conspiracy theory for you. What if the former administration was ticked off because of what happened to their idea to register every firearm that left this country got with the South African government and worked with them so that it is a pain in the rear for us to transport our firearms into their country?

Just thinking here.