Bullet for Cape Buffalo

[Neil Molendyk]

(A) I have never hunted Buffalo (B) every bit of research I have done does NOT seem to indicate that a Woodleigh Hydro as a first shot is "less good" than an A-Frame (both 416 Rig).
I will be taking a few Buff (and others, hopefully) in September and report back.

The Woodleigh Hydro is a solid, not a soft point like the Swift A frame. The Swift bullet comparable to the Woodleigh Hydro is the Swift Breakaway solid. The reason I used Swift A frame and Swift Breakaway solids Is that by reducing the powder by 1 to 2 grains of the A frame bullets charge I could achieve the same point of impact with the Swift Breakaway solids at a distance of 50 yards. Both bullets were 400 gr and seated to the same c.o.l

 

[Rum Runner]

A-Frames all the way. On a recent safari, I got caught a couple of times in the field fiddling between softs and solids, solids and softs...in the heat of the action. My PH and I decided to ditch the solids and everyone was much happier.

 

[Bert the Turtle]

(A) I have never hunted Buffalo (B) every bit of research I have done does NOT seem to indicate that a Woodleigh Hydro as a first shot is "less good" than an A-Frame (both 416 Rig).
I will be taking a few Buff (and others, hopefully) in September and report back.

Please, please do not use that for your initial shot if you are hunting in a herd unless you want a 2 or maybe 3 for one deal.

 

[Red Leg]

(A) I have never hunted Buffalo (B) every bit of research I have done does NOT seem to indicate that a Woodleigh Hydro as a first shot is "less good" than an A-Frame (both 416 Rig).
I will be taking a few Buff (and others, hopefully) in September and report back.

I don't know about your "research," but I have actually used the Woodleigh version of them, and they, like any solid, will be a TERRIBLE choice for a first shot at a buffalo. Most PH's I know would not allow you to use them on a first shot. The chance of wounding another animal - calf, cow, or bull is extremely high in such a situation.

 

[Red Leg]

From my limited experience and following the PH's recommendation I used a Swift A frame 400 grain on the initial shot broadside at 75 yards which took out both lungs. Thirty minutes later upon reaching the buffalo I put an additional four Swift Breakaway solids into the beast as he attempted to regain his feet. Only one solid passed through the the chest area and it lodged into the horns. These solids were fired from 15 yards. The Swift break away solids did swell marginally in the nose area and unlike some other manufacturers solids, they could not be reloaded. Given the opportunity, I would to hesitate to use Swift solids as backup bullets again. For what it's worth.

Seriously? Four solids into a buffalo at fifteen yards to prevent him regaining his feet is not exactly what I would call a positive bullet performance after action report. A single, correctly placed, swift A-Frame or TSX would have ended that rodeo very quickly.

 

[Bert the Turtle]

Seriously? Four solids into a buffalo at fifteen yards to prevent him regaining his feet is not exactly what I would call a positive bullet performance after action report. A single, correctly placed, swift A-Frame or TSX would have ended that rodeo very quickly.

only if it is put in the right spot...

 

[JLF]

It does not need more, it has enough to kill its prey, the rest is up to you. Do not rush, get as close as possible, look for the moment, wind and exact position to shoot, and above all, know the exact points where to aim ... good hunting

 

[Neil Molendyk]

Seriously? Four solids into a buffalo at fifteen yards to prevent him regaining his feet is not exactly what I would call a positive bullet performance after action report. A single, correctly placed, swift A-Frame or TSX would have ended that rodeo very quickly.

I beg to differ, Insurance is cheap, cheapest part of the whole hunt. I probably could have waited for him to expire from a double lung shot but why put it all at risk. It was no rodeo my friend. No offence intended.

 

[Red Leg]

I beg to differ, Insurance is cheap, cheapest part of the whole hunt. I probably could have waited for him to expire from a double lung shot but why put it all at risk. It was no rodeo my friend. No offence intended.

Absolutely none taken. I just don't get it. A swift A Frame or TSX would simply have handled that situation and 90% of the others better. That would seem a far better insurance policy to me. As noted above, the scenarios where they wouldn't are pretty rare, and even then, one can still make the case for a soft.

 

[Neil Molendyk]

Absolutely none taken. I just don't get it. A swift A Frame or TSX would simply have handled that situation and 90% of the others better. That would seem a far better insurance policy to me. As noted above, the scenarios where they wouldn't are pretty rare, and even then, one can still make the case for a soft.

Just for clarification, a SWIFT A FRAME 400 GR was used on the initial shot and it did bring the old fellow down, load to 2300 fps muzzle velocity in 416 Rigby. There were more A Frames available but I followed the direction of my PH"s recommendation. He was a big thick old bull, blew out the airbags on the one ton Land Cruiser on the seven hour trip home. But that's another story.

 

[Hunting Hitman]

I have hunted plenty of Buffalo and have always used A-frame softs. I normally hunt with a 470 NE or a 505 Gibbs.

 

[Bert the Turtle]

How are people doing their insurance shot? I put a bullet into the cervical spine from the the top. Pretty much any bullet will work for that.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the insurance shot. As I understand it, Capstick coined the term to describe the shot one puts into a downed and presumed dead animal to make damn sure he really is dead.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Well Marius let's be honest, how often will this happen?
Ok so it has happened, now what?

I always ask the question if you could not hit it in the correct place with the initial shot which would have been controlled, how on earth are you going to hit the sweet spot from the back?

I have always believed firstly that you should use a a caliber that is up to the task. For a PH this is even more important.
I also find it better to shoot at something you can see and not something that is at the other end of the animal especially when it is a wounded DG animal, therefore I would rather go for the anchoring shot in this case rather than attempt to reach a vital organ which I at best in this scenario will be quesing where to aim....

Yes this one is in the open and also offers a neck shot however for demonstration purposes they best shot to take is high spine shot(just above the root of the tail) or either of the hip joints, with a premium grade expanding bullet of course to maximize damage. Either shot will anchor the buff. These targets are easily seen from the rear end.

Reaching the vitals is very tricky shot from the rear. A shot from the rear that only hits a lung is just gonna piss the buff off more and increase the risk of a charge. In order to reach the heart from the rear you would need very impressive penetration and super shot placement, also much more difficult when the buff is slightly quartering from the rear. Probably only a Meplat heavy for caliber brass solid from a 458 or larger traveling at about 2300 will do. I know my 500 Jeff with 570gr Rhino solid @2300 will.

Very difficult shot to pull off. From the rear.

Below photo although not in the bush shows hip joints and root of tail much easier than shot for the vitals.

View attachment 358871

We had followed a Bow wounded Cape Buffalo for 4 1/2 hrs after waiting an hour before starting, we found him in similar position as below(could only see sweep of horn not shoulders and neck), although also in a thicket, it was hot wind was swirling, we had to act fast, 570gr Rhino controlled expansion bullet from 500 Jeff hit spine just above the root of the tail and buffalo could not regain his back end, allowing us to finish him off.

View attachment 358870

Personally I use premium grade expanding bullets(Rhino) for buffalo, in 500 Jeff it makes no difference if they are standing, coming or going, that combination flattens them.

LVW, you are an experienced PH and I respect you for what you have achieved throughout your career.
Our hunters' shooting ability is not for us to decide. We have to work with their capability. That is what the P stands for in PH.

You ask how often does it happen? It only needs to happen once. I would not let any of my hunters shoot at any of those bulls standing in the open, facing away. That is not my point.

My point is on a wounded Buff, standing in an area where a better angle is not available. Not all hunters can handle a 500 Jeff, and there is no way I am handing over my 500 NE.

All the best to you. I think we are saying the same thing, just from different perspectives.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

How are people doing their insurance shot? I put a bullet into the cervical spine from the the top. Pretty much any bullet will work for that.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the insurance shot. As I understand it, Capstick coined the term to describe the shot one puts into a downed and presumed dead animal to make damn sure he really is dead.

I always let my hunter put in 2 or so insurance shots. First prize would be to try and shoot the spine off between the shoulder blades.
It's the dead ones that kill people.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

I beg to differ, Insurance is cheap, cheapest part of the whole hunt. I probably could have waited for him to expire from a double lung shot but why put it all at risk. It was no rodeo my friend. No offence intended.

I fully agree with your sentiment. Keep shooting. Just don't agree with the advice given to you.

Just for clarification, a SWIFT A FRAME 400 GR was used on the initial shot and it did bring the old fellow down, load to 2300 fps muzzle velocity in 416 Rigby. There were more A Frames available but I followed the direction of my PH"s recommendation. He was a big thick old bull, blew out the airbags on the one ton Land Cruiser on the seven hour trip home. But that's another story.

Neil, no offence. Solids have a place, and this is not what they were made for. Your softs would have ended the scenario sooner. I have to respectfully disagree with your PH on this one.

 

[IvW]

How are people doing their insurance shot? I put a bullet into the cervical spine from the the top. Pretty much any bullet will work for that.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the insurance shot. As I understand it, Capstick coined the term to describe the shot one puts into a downed and presumed dead animal to make damn sure he really is dead.

Just to be clear, big difference between an insurance shot and a back up shot on wounded DG.

After the first shot by all means keep shooting just make sure it is the same animal and if you have decided on using solids for back up on buffalo, be very careful of pulling the trigger unless you are 110% sure there is nothing of value behind the buffalo.....

And yes always have some solids handy, as per the example given by Marius you could if needed or want to slip one in there and go for it....

Yes insurance shot would be the animal is down and appears to be dead. For a buff lying on his side, approach from behind, the shot would be through the spine between the shoulder blades again into the hart lung area, cervical spine shot would imply between the scull and the shoulder blades which is not the norm.

Elephant would be also approach from the back and place another shot into the brain from behind.

 

[Ridgewalker]

In my vast experience (1 buffalo) the first shot, 300 TSX, was through the top of the heart and bottom of the lungs. It didn’t die. PH fired a 458 Lott, but it didn’t stop. It spun and started moving away. My second 300 TSX was into the root of the tail. It stopped and went down but was only paralyzed. We moved in cautiously. By the time we moved around to take a shot between the front shoulders it bellowed it’s last breath. No shot taken.

JMO, but like mentioned by several, the first shot should be the killing shot even if it doesn’t respond or go down. All after shots are only insurance and trying to make certain nothing bad happens to you or others and the animal doesn’t suffer.

 

[Bert the Turtle]

IvW has it correct. We are referring to the same shot; I was incorrect when I said cervical spine. I thought that shot hit the lower portion of the cervical spine that forms the hump. The correct shot between the shoulder blades hits the upper thoracic spine and continues into the chest cavity.

 

[AES]

Please, please do not use that for your initial shot if you are hunting in a herd unless you want a 2 or maybe 3 for one deal.

Seriously? Four solids into a buffalo at fifteen yards to prevent him regaining his feet is not exactly what I would call a positive bullet performance after action report. A single, correctly placed, swift A-Frame or TSX would have ended that rodeo very quickly.

The Woodleigh Hydro is a solid, not a soft point like the Swift A frame. The Swift bullet comparable to the Woodleigh Hydro is the Swift Breakaway solid. The reason I used Swift A frame and Swift Breakaway solids Is that by reducing the powder by 1 to 2 grains of the A frame bullets charge I could achieve the same point of impact with the Swift Breakaway solids at a distance of 50 yards. Both bullets were 400 gr and seated to the same c.o.l

Apologies, was in my cups. I meant for follow-up shots once separated from innocent bystanders.

 

[Lhleggtowner]

I killed the buffalo in my avatar with 300 grain tsx from a 375 H&H. First shot was found under the skin of the opposite shoulder perfectly mushroomed. I have him a Texas heart shot as he was going away but it was not needed. I still have the recovered bullet and it is displayed on the pedestal of the buffalo mount. I have since moved on to a 404 but I have every confidence in the 375 and 300 grain tsx.

Which bullet did you choose for the 404? I am in the process of narrowing it down. Any info would be appreciated