This might be the best reply yet.Us hunters are a sentimental bunch and as such, the .404 Jefffery brings up the images of “Old Africa”, Teddy Roosevelt, Hemingway, Ruark, Selby, Bell, et al. The .416 Remington Magnum brings to mind...the late 80’s. Not exactly the most romanticized time in hunting.
And the .404 Jeffery has spawned a huge number or derivatives. The WSM, WSSM, RUM, Dakota, and Nosler families all are direct descendants of the venerable .404.
I agree with most of your points Art. But the 416 RM at the same velocity would have the same recoil, wouldn't it?Toby, re. stirring the pot, you did. But now that The Montana Rifle Co. has brought out the 404 Jeffery in their standard line up they are readily available. Let's face it. Winchester, Remington etc. cater to the American market which is predominately White Tail deer hunters with a smattering of Elk, Moose and least of all bear hunters. Apart from that, QuickLoad has the 404 Jeffery at 52,939 max psi while the 416 Remington is at 62,366 psi. Roughly 10,000 psi. (20%) more energy to get a similar result. I mean no disrespect in saying that you are recoil insensitive. Your love of light hard hitting calibers has been well documented (by you) on AH. There are many of us that enjoy the gentler recoil of the 404 Jeffery. Will they both do the job, probably yes, so what we have is a "good for you" and a "good for me."
After reading this post I had to look on Chuck Hawks recoil table.I agree with most of your points Art. But the 416 RM at the same velocity would have the same recoil, wouldn't it?
I did the same thing upon seeing that post. Amazing that the same performance generates 22% less recoil with a negligible difference in weight between the rifles.After reading this post I had to look on Chuck Hawks recoil table.
404 J shooting a 400 gr @ 2170 FPS produces 41 ft-lbs of energy and 16.1 FPS of recoil velocity in a 10 1/4# rifle.
416 RM shooting a 400 gr @ 2400 FPS produces 52.9 ft-lbs of energy and 18.5 FPS of recoil velocity in a 10# rifle.
Not sure exactly how you would interpret the data, but I can assure you TOBY458 will not be caught dead with a 10# rifle in any caliber.
Link if you care to see for yourself.
This thread has served as a lot of my education of the .404 Jeffery as well. I was AWARE of it, but I didn’t know it. As often happens here on AH, now I want one.I grow weary each night with study of this vast archive of knowledge as I struggle to catch up and become worthy of this family.