416 Rem Mag vs 404 Jeffrey

Discussion in '.375 & Up' started by TOBY458, Feb 19, 2019.

  1. Shootist43

    Shootist43 AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2015
    Messages:
    4,116
    Video/Photo:
    22
    Likes Received:
    3,168
    Location:
    Grosse Ile, Michigan
    Member of:
    NRA
    Hunted:
    Michigan, Texas, Missouri, Limpopo Province South Africa
    Toby, it is the operating pressure of the caliber we are talking about, nothing more or less. The 20% more pressure in the 416 Rem pushes both ways. What is so hard to understand about that?
     
    TOBY458 likes this.

  2. Capt_Oscar

    Capt_Oscar AH Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Messages:
    17
    Video/Photo:
    2
    Likes Received:
    20
    Location:
    Kauai, Hawaii
    Hunted:
    Canada, United States
    Yes, in a standard push feed bolt. I use it for large North American game (moose).
     
    TOBY458 likes this.

  3. TOBY458

    TOBY458 AH Elite

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2014
    Messages:
    1,117
    Video/Photo:
    82
    Likes Received:
    1,244
    Location:
    Madison Georgia, USA
    If that is the case, then the 416 Rigby should recoil less than them all, correct?
     

  4. TOBY458

    TOBY458 AH Elite

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2014
    Messages:
    1,117
    Video/Photo:
    82
    Likes Received:
    1,244
    Location:
    Madison Georgia, USA
    Ok fellas. I'm going to bow out on this one. Let's just agree that both cartridges are good for their intended purpose.
    I'll be sure to show you all my new 404 when I get it. :A Surrender:
     
    BeeMaa, 375 Ruger Fan and Shootist43 like this.

  5. Shootist43

    Shootist43 AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2015
    Messages:
    4,116
    Video/Photo:
    22
    Likes Received:
    3,168
    Location:
    Grosse Ile, Michigan
    Member of:
    NRA
    Hunted:
    Michigan, Texas, Missouri, Limpopo Province South Africa
    Yes, in fact the venerable old 416 Rigby has a max pressure of 47137 psi., your 416 Rem. "thumps" harder than it as well. The difference here is that most folks want a heavier rifle for that caliber, thereby reducing the recoil. Case in point, my 416 Rigby weighs 11.5 pounds and is reasonably comfortable for me to shoot.

    Along this same line, I see that The Montana Rifle Co's new 404 Jeffery in their African model weighs 7 lbs. 15 oz. That is a little lighter than I'd like. I'll weigh both of my 404(s) and pass the info on to you, both rifles are equipped with a Nikon Monarch 3 1.5 -4 X scope.
     
    TOBY458 likes this.

  6. TTundra

    TTundra AH Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2015
    Messages:
    434
    Video/Photo:
    44
    Likes Received:
    533
    Location:
    Greensboro, NC
    Hunted:
    RSA (Limpopo), USA , CAN
    I think I'm going to dive into this more....but create another thread. I just cannot imagine that a 404J and 416RM shooting the same weight bullet, with the correct charge to shoot at the same muzzle velocities, in the same weight gun, with the same design stock, has any discernible felt difference in recoil as the online calculators Ive used show almost the same recoil ft/lbs and velocity.

    Then again, I am no mechanical engineer, but I do work with a few that are shooters themselves and may find it fun to dive into this.
     
    Red Leg, fourfive8 and TOBY458 like this.

  7. Shootist43

    Shootist43 AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2015
    Messages:
    4,116
    Video/Photo:
    22
    Likes Received:
    3,168
    Location:
    Grosse Ile, Michigan
    Member of:
    NRA
    Hunted:
    Michigan, Texas, Missouri, Limpopo Province South Africa
    Toby are you actively looking for or do you have your eyes on a 404 Jeffery?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 22, 2019
    TOBY458 likes this.

  8. TOBY458

    TOBY458 AH Elite

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2014
    Messages:
    1,117
    Video/Photo:
    82
    Likes Received:
    1,244
    Location:
    Madison Georgia, USA
    Ok fellas. I'm going to bow out on this one. Let's just agree that both cartridges are good for their intended purpose.
    I'll be sure to show you all my new 404 when I get it. :A Surrender:[/QUOTE]
    Neither at this time. I'm going back to hunt with Pieter again this year, so I guess I need to hold off on buying any more rifles for now.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 22, 2019

  9. colorado

    colorado AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    868
    Video/Photo:
    38
    Likes Received:
    640
    You are absolutely right. Given the same weight rifle, bullet weight, bullet velocity and powder charge the recoil in ft/lbs and recoil velocity will be identical.
     
    TOBY458 likes this.

  10. BeeMaa

    BeeMaa AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2017
    Messages:
    948
    Video/Photo:
    33
    Likes Received:
    800
    Location:
    Eastern US
    Member of:
    NRA Life Member, SCI
    Hunted:
    Eastern US & RSA
    Cool, can't wait to see it.

    So what will we set the over/under line at for the rifle weight of this rifle?
    Thinking 9# rifle alone, no scope, sling or ammo.

    Takers?
    I'm taking the under.
     
    TOBY458 likes this.

  11. TOBY458

    TOBY458 AH Elite

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2014
    Messages:
    1,117
    Video/Photo:
    82
    Likes Received:
    1,244
    Location:
    Madison Georgia, USA
    Make that 9lbs scoped and you're in the money!
     
    BeeMaa likes this.

  12. colorado

    colorado AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    868
    Video/Photo:
    38
    Likes Received:
    640
    A 404 Jeffery scoped? Heresy! lol
     
    TOBY458 likes this.

  13. BeeMaa

    BeeMaa AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2017
    Messages:
    948
    Video/Photo:
    33
    Likes Received:
    800
    Location:
    Eastern US
    Member of:
    NRA Life Member, SCI
    Hunted:
    Eastern US & RSA
    Smart money was taking the under anyway.
     

  14. Shootist43

    Shootist43 AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2015
    Messages:
    4,116
    Video/Photo:
    22
    Likes Received:
    3,168
    Location:
    Grosse Ile, Michigan
    Member of:
    NRA
    Hunted:
    Michigan, Texas, Missouri, Limpopo Province South Africa
    I'd be willing to bet that if there was a 4 lb. 505 Gibbs or similar Toby would own one!!:E Happy:

    I wonder if there is any truth to the rumor that Toby's derringer is a 45/70?
     
    Ridgewalker, TOBY458 and BeeMaa like this.

  15. BeeMaa

    BeeMaa AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2017
    Messages:
    948
    Video/Photo:
    33
    Likes Received:
    800
    Location:
    Eastern US
    Member of:
    NRA Life Member, SCI
    Hunted:
    Eastern US & RSA
    Ever heard of NULA - New Ultra Light Arms?
    They offer a Model 32 Professional Hunter in calibers based on the 404J and weigh in at 7.25#.
    For those who are recoil sensitive there is also the Model 40 African based on the 416 Rigby that comes in at a whopping 8 3/4#.

    I've always preferred a rifle that's built for comfort, like my women. ;)
    Wife is gonna kill me if she reads that one.
     
    Ridgewalker, Pheroze and TOBY458 like this.

  16. TOBY458

    TOBY458 AH Elite

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2014
    Messages:
    1,117
    Video/Photo:
    82
    Likes Received:
    1,244
    Location:
    Madison Georgia, USA
    Let's not get too extreme here! 6lbs on the 505, and 454 Casull on the derringer!
     

  17. TOBY458

    TOBY458 AH Elite

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2014
    Messages:
    1,117
    Video/Photo:
    82
    Likes Received:
    1,244
    Location:
    Madison Georgia, USA
    Either it gets scoped, or I get better contact lenses!
     
    Ridgewalker, Shootist43 and BeeMaa like this.

  18. BeeMaa

    BeeMaa AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2017
    Messages:
    948
    Video/Photo:
    33
    Likes Received:
    800
    Location:
    Eastern US
    Member of:
    NRA Life Member, SCI
    Hunted:
    Eastern US & RSA
    Get better contact lenses...so you can see into the future.
     
    Ridgewalker, Shootist43 and TOBY458 like this.

  19. Gsxrmike

    Gsxrmike AH Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Messages:
    136
    Video/Photo:
    5
    Likes Received:
    160
    Location:
    Texas
    Member of:
    NRA Life member, SCI, DSC
    Hunted:
    Zimbabwe, USA
    I have them both and love them both. My .404 is more accurate so that is the one I’ve taken to Africa. It performed beautifully on buffalo.
    On the downside my .404 is from the CZ custom shop and has the well known problem of difficulty feeding rounds from the left side of the magazine that even AHR could not cure. Oh well.
     

  20. Rule 303

    Rule 303 AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2015
    Messages:
    558
    Video/Photo:
    1
    Likes Received:
    399
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Hunted:
    Australia, New Zealand, Zimbabwe & Namibia
    I have not read all of this thread yet so this may have been covered.
    The 404J has an old case design in that it has a very long neck and tapper compared to modern cases. I feel most who do not know the heritage would not buy it because of the case design and all the negative press ignorant people would heap on it. Well thats my take on it.

    Take a 300 RUM and neck to 404, presto a modern 404 that will do every thin the 404J does and a bit more if turns people on.
     

Share This Page

 
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice