Discussion in '.375 & Up' started by Wolverine67, May 23, 2012.
what about pressures and stickiness in hot weather?
With which cartridge? This has never been an issue with the 375 H&H.
I'm not sure about what this question is referring to. If the same velocities are produced with the same barrel length, then assuming equal bore quality, the Ruger will typically have lower pressure because it has a larger capacity. A larger capacity can use a slower powder, resulting in lower pressure.
Both the 375 Ruger and 375 H&H are used in hot weather without stickiness. Most of my shooting and load development (375 Ruger) is in hot weather. For every cartridge, a person wants to load to safe levels of pressure and if they do so, the fired cases will slip out without a problem.
I think Steve is referring to the possibility of case stickiness with the Ruger round due to the cartridges higher pressure and straighter walls. This is an issue with some of the more modern cartridge designs. The relatively large case of the Rigby keeps pressures lower and it' tapered case makes extraction more positive. At least that's the theory. I'm not worried about it much. I have a .416 Ruger and haven't had any problems.
Ammo-Guide lists both the 375 Ruger and the 375 H&H as recommending 62000 max-pressure (presumably in accord with SAAMI). Neither round should show any stickiness at those recommended pressures.
Theoretically, the long taper of the H&H was designed for smooth extraction. However, nominal specs also show that factory loadings may under-load the H&H.
Ammo-guide lists 4266 foot-pounds as the nominal H&H load,
while they give 4837 foot-pounds for the nominal Ruger load.
Those nominal loads are not an equal comparison but appear to mask over a factory under-utilization of the already smaller capacity H&H. That would explain the 600 foot-pound muzzle-energy difference. In capacity, the cartridges are quite a bit closer than that, probably only differing in 150-200 foot-pounds when loaded to equal pressures and barrel lengths.
Getting back to the question on "stickiness" (extraction). Under-loading a cartridge is always an option for someone who is concerned about extraction. However, today's powders, brass, and rifles, do not need to be limited to conditions 100 years ago.
I think either cartridge is "good to go" with both factory loads and responsible hand-loads.
One is recommended to use a chronograph for load development and to be skeptical and cautious about any loads beyond expectations.
I have not heard of anyone having experienced extraction problems with either the Ruger 375 or the Ruger 416.I include hot, humid places like Zululand and the Zambesi valley.
Problems of that kind were experienced now and again with the Remington 416 but those are things of the past.
One word of advice which I can give is to go easy on the hand-loads. We can all outdo factory V0's in given cartridges but sometimes not safely, and a load which is completely reliable in cool weather at high altitude can become a problem (read "dangerous") in hot, humid lowland conditions.
Also, Tanzan is not 100% correct about the origin of the H&H design. In fact the cartridge was originally loaded with cordite. It came in strands and ideally required long cartridges in order to work well. In fact it was the slower cordite loaded version which led to the 375 H&H's huge following. Early smokeless loads, being quite a bit hotter, were known for bullet failures - just like the almost identical 9.3x64 Brenneke. Fortunately we now have better bullets.
I personally prefer the Ruger - but for compactness of the platform rather than the additional velocity. However if you are big of build then it makes no difference.
Re sticking cartridges in hot weather. I think this often gets lost in translation. Daga Boy covered off fairly well. Most of the problems originated from Cordite loads and continued with some modern powders that are fairly temperature sensitive.
The second thing is what is HOT in temperature. Well for somebody from the UK and similar latitudes 25C is probably warm and 28C is hot. To me hot is 40C about 104F. Daga Boy covered that with Zambezi Valley hot. When I hunted there every day was between 40C and 45C. yes 45C in the Zambezi is the same as 45C anywhere else.If cartridge cases are in the sun -even on your belt- they will be bloody hot and this will cause most powders to produce higher pressures. Most factory loads would/should cater for this.
My point is when some say their loads are safe in hot conditions, what do they mean by hot.
@Rule 303 Agree with you completely! Maybe this will help our fellow hunters: HOT is on the right and NOT HOT is on left.
To true that.
Sorry, just got back from fishing...I had been referring to some rumors that the ruger round had experienced stickiness of all places during PH trials in Zimbabwe. It might have been Kevin Robertson I was reading. Nobody wants to being hammering on a stuck bolt with a fist or foot after a first shot at something nasty. BTW, if standard training is to come back forcefully for good ejection, then why is longer cartridge length such a bugaboo? Would short stroking actually be slow lazy stroking the bolt handle?
Someone please advise: What are the reloading issues between belted and non belted rounds. My nephew claims that he cannot get more than three reloads out of 375 H&H brass before incipient head separation occurs. I regularly get more out of non belted cases. Anyone had the same experience?
Steve, Belted cases are designed to head space off the belt other cases off a datum point on the shoulder. Also the more tapered a case the more the brass flows on firing from the base/head of the case towards the mouth.
So with a belted case like the H&H there is a fair amount of brass flow, hence weakening the head area, not as apparent in say belted cases with far less taper like the Weatherby.
For your nephew get him to adjusted his full length sizing die to just touch the shoulder when reloading, this will have his cases head spacing off the shoulder and stop a fair bit of the brass flow. Hope this makes sense.
Re short stroking. That is when the bolt simply is not pulled back till it hits the bolt stop. Yes it can be a problem if you work the bolt slowly like on a range to save your brass going all over the place.
Daga Boy I meant to add that the416Ruger was beset with extraction problems when it first came out. Hornady were trying to get the magical 2400fps with a 400 grain pill as were hand loaders. Though Hornady used a special mix of powder there was the odd problem with factory ammo. All reloads of the 416 Ruger I knew of had problems and could not get near the 2400fps without bolt lock up, smoke coming out of the action and similar nasty events. That is no longer a problem from what I hear so Hornady/Ruger must have changed something in the mix and reloaders backed off or found a new powder that does the trick. The reloaders I know settle for 2300fps.
I have 2 375. H&H and. 1 375 Ruger like both calibers, but I’ve been put off by Ruger rifles the last 2 I bought where lemons. If they where built like they where when Bill Ruger was alive, they would be a good rifle. My 375 are a Winchester Model 70 and a CZ 550. Both are better rifles then the Ruger Alaskan I own
I saw a recent photo of Clinton. Without makeup plastered on etc etc I had to teach for a wooden cross!
Now you've touched on something...talking about a "good" rifle. One of the reasons I shoot the 375 H&H is that I shoot it in a Sako safari, with quarter rib in all its loveliness. It is not an "affordable" gun as others mentioned, but man does it float my boat! (functions flawlessly, too)
Have you hunted DG with the Sako? I'm considering a left handed 85 Hunter but I'm not 100% sold on the 'control round feed'. I've read that the case is held right near the end of the 'push'. A closer examination of my Ruger Hawkeye in 308 (controlled feed) revealed that the case is only held with about a 1/4 of the case sticking out the chamber.
I've reloaded .375 H&H for a while and haven't noticed that case life was limited. In fact, I was just wondering the other day how long they'd last. Seems to me that I've reloaded a lot of cases 5 or 6 times and they don't look any worse for wear. They don't seem to require case trimming either. Once trimmed to the standard length, they tend to retain that length after shooting. Does anyone else have the same experience?
It would depend on how hot you load the cartridge. A moderate/medium load will result in a long life for the cartridge case.
Thanks! My typical loads are moderate. I usually end up well below the max loading. I've found that doing so yields better accuracy and the velocities are close to to original specs for the round.
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