Hornady DGX bonded failure

Mark458 said:
I agree here. If your definition of bullet failure is inconsistent mushrooming and more than 10% weight loss then I think you miscalculated in your choice of bullet to begin with. The Hornady dangerous game line has never had a reputation that meets this criteria. It has improved over the years but still falls short of the numbers I mentioned.

As referenced earlier the Swift, TBBC, TSX, or the North Fork are all better than choices to end up with great weight retention and consistent mushrooming or petalling in the case of the copper bullets.

The first two buffalo I took years ago were with the early Hornady Interbond. I used a 500 grains out of my 458 Lott and these bullets failed miserably according to the standard that the numbers I mentioned earlier show. The results is that those two buffalo went a total of 40 yards. The first one did the whole 40 yards by himself, stopped and put his head down and I'm sure he was ready to fall over, but I put a second and a third one in him and that was it. The second bull dropped in his tracks. High lung shot that broke ribs on the way in and out. I'm sure it shocked the spin and he went straight down. Quick follow up shots prevented any chance of getting up.

Bullets that were recovered lost about 40- 50% of their weight but the damage that was done was devastating.

I know many people love the Cutting Edge Raptors for dangerous game. These bullets are designed to shed their petals and the shank continue on as a solid. To each their own, but not for me.

Since that first hunt I have switched to 500 grain TSX as my default bullet of choice and is what I will be using when I go back this July. I do intend on trying some of the North Fork bullets when I hunt multiple buffalo next year and see how they perform side by side with the TSX. I prefer bullets that penetrate deep and petal consistently which inevitably will be accompanied by good weight retention.

Let the debate continue.
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Failure is whether a bullet performs as designed or not. It’s not weight loss. If a bullet doesn’t perform as designed you can expect it to give consistent results. Bullets like cutting edge raptors or Nosler partitions are designed to shed weight. It’s not a failure when they do. But when a Hornady DGX sheds all its weight or fails to expand it’s a failure because that’s not what’s it’s designed for. It could lead to a dangerous situation.

Here is one of best examples I have. A trophy bonded bear claw at 70 yards on a kudu then a finisher at full muzzle velocity. The bullet retained all properties it was meant to have. It lost weight with the finishing shot but still performed exactly as designed. Swift A Frames, Barnes, and Trophy bonded bear claws perform as designed 99% of time. That’s why they have reputation they do.
IMG_0388.jpeg
 
grand veneur said:
It is all just internet problems. In the past, the outcome of the hunt was what mattered, not what the bullet looked like afterwards. Besides, many of us did not know how a bullet was supposed really to look like after impact.
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You withhold details every time this debate occurs. The outcome of hunt does matter. Bullets that perform as designed give consistent results and safer hunts. You stepped up your caliber to compensate for the bullets you used at the time.
 
curt672 said:
does anyone have any pics of how the Woodleigh bullet works in the same conditions?
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When @MacJenkins returns from the BVC hopefully he will share some photos and his experiences from his hunt. Last I heard he was still looking for buffalo #4 but had used mostly his normal reference CEB Raptors, he also had used several Woodleigh RNSN and some factory Hornady DGX bonded on insurance shots and educational comparison. Interesting comparison and similar to what is complained of here on the Hornady. The Woodleighs were sexy perfect I have to say.
 
For those mentioning velocity, a 450/400 3" should fire a 400gr bullet at roughly 2050fps. A velocity of 2000fps is perfectly normal and i wouldnt be concerned. Now 1950fps or slower would start to concern me.

Now to the bullet perfance in this thread... Nope, I dont like it! Some people might not care about bullet performance but I do and am willing to spend extra money for better performance. Prior to the invention of bonded bullets, expanding bullets were considered a poor choice for DG for a reason.

Thank you for posting these pictures. I will keep this in mind for the future.

-Matt
 
I get it... the bullet didn't open and mushroom properly even though the buff died. But I sometimes think the TSX suffers the same fate where the petals shear off and the remaining bullet acts as a solid more than a soft and after recovery is just a shank with a good amount of weight loss. Yet few call this a bullet failure and lump the X bullets in the "premium" category. Alas, the DGX seems to suffer a different fate with somewhat similar performance. Shit happens when a bullet hits at a strange angle and encounters bone or horn.

My money is still on the Swift A-Frames... but I've killed a number of buffalo with the X and DGX bullets.
 
I’m kinda F’d shooting a .375Ruger, like the 450/400 guys Hornady is basically the only player loading for them , I have a set of dies and some once fired brass saved back for when I need something better, FWIW I have seen the DGX fail only once on a animal ( but it was a expensive failure because two hunters paying a $1000 day rate spent 3 days trying to sort out the wounded bull from the herd and never recovered it & Gary had to pay a $5000 fee for a 2nd bull ) , I try to keep up on testing of DGX and other brands and DGX always leaves some margin of doubt. Especially with a 450/400 @ “ 2050” advertised MV ( it’s probably more like 1900 -2000 +/- )
Here are another long boring video of bullet test of .375h&h & 458wm , you make the decision for yourself
 
Hand loading is an essential skill for an African hunter. You dont need to dive too far down the rabbit hole, but just far enough to produce your own DG cartridges.

A simple press and quality scale is all you really need to get started. If you dont chase perfect accuracy, it is inexpensive and not overly time consuming.
 
i have had good luck with the DGX bonded, not with the unbonded
 
matt85 said:
Hand loading is an essential skill for an African hunter. You dont need to dive too far down the rabbit hole, but just far enough to produce your own DG cartridges.

A simple press and quality scale is all you really need to get started. If you dont chase perfect accuracy, it is inexpensive and not overly time consuming.
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Or simply shoot a common cartridge for which there is a wide selection of available ammunition.
 
analog_peninsula said:
Or simply shoot a common cartridge for which there is a wide selection of available ammunition.
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The trouble is, no DG cartridge is truly common. The 375 H&H is the most common DG cartridge, but shortages of particular brands are still quite common. You might always find it... But you cant guarantee what you find will be of the quality you want.

The only sure way to have good quality DG ammunition available to you at all times, Is to make it yourself.
 
Hunting Hitman said:
You’ve just been DGX’d. seriously I’ve been posting for years on the horrifically bad performance of the DGX bullet but some still defend it. Now ask yourself if the animal was charging how comfortable you would feel?
Get some custom hand loads that work well with your double and move on with confidence. I like either Swift, TBBC, NorthFork, TSX, or Woodleigh.

HH
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Woodleigh and Swift for sure!
 
Not sure I’d classify this as bullet failure. It definitely didn’t expand or mushroom into the ideal upset, but it also didn’t have a catastrophic failure.

I’m hunting with a vintage Westley Richards Drop Lock in 450NE 3-1/4” in Mozambique shortly. Since the 480gr .458 dia Woodleigh Softs aren’t being produced, my only option for the 450NE was DGS/DGX. I was able to get them to regulate well, but I can’t say I’m 100% confident in them as a bullet choice like I am with TBBC, AFrames, or TSX’s.

Given my buffalo hunt is in the swamp, I will almost assuredly be taking a bull from a big herd. This means tracking through water/saw grass will be difficult if not impossible, I’d thought about having a conversation with my PH about an almost immediate back-up shot and/or his opinions on the bullets performance since he’s seen WAY more bulls shot with that bullet than I ever will. My first objective is a quick clean kill that lets everyone return to the fire that night/evening. Still have some time to think about the conversation before the hunt, but this was something I’ve thought about well before this thread was posted.
 
As a rule of thumb, monolithic bullets (TSX) and bonded-core bullets (DGX bonded, A-Frame, TTBC) require a minimum impact velocity of around 2,100 fps (650 m/s) to expand properly and reliably, whilst hunting soft-point bullets (ELD-X, Interlock, Power Point...) expand or fragment reliably down to around 1,800 fps (550 m/s) and match-type bullets (ELD-M, SMK) down to 1,600 fps
 
Olivier said:
As a rule of thumb, monolithic bullets (TSX) and bonded-core bullets (DGX bonded, A-Frame, TTBC) require a minimum impact velocity of around 2,100 fps (650 m/s) to expand properly and reliably, whilst hunting soft-point bullets (ELD-X, Interlock, Power Point...) expand or fragment reliably down to around 1,800 fps (550 m/s) and match-type bullets (ELD-M, SMK) down to 1,600 fps
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I don’t know of any big bore double pushing those bullets at 2100fps unless it’s right at the end of the barrel. At normal hunting ranges out to 50-100 yards, you’re more likely to be impacting at 1800 to 1900 max. If that 2100fps is correct, then none of these bullets are going to be ideal out of a double rifle?
 
Mike B. said:
I don’t know of any big bore double pushing those bullets at 2100fps unless it’s right at the end of the barrel. At normal hunting ranges out to 50-100 yards, you’re more likely to be impacting at 1800 to 1900 max. If that 2100fps is correct, then none of these bullets are going to be ideal out of a double rifle?
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These rules are deliberately very strict so that they are easy to remember and help ensure optimal bullet expansion in all circumstances. I am not saying that lower impact velocities cannot work: although bullet constructions can be grouped into broad categories (solid, mono, bonded, soft core...), every bullet design and frontal surface are differents and behaves differently depending on the resistance encountered in the wound channel. I am simply saying that you are taking a risk, and the lower the impact velocity, the greater that risk becomes.
 
Olivier said:
These rules are deliberately very strict so that they are easy to remember and help ensure optimal bullet expansion in all circumstances. I am not saying that lower impact velocities cannot work: although bullet constructions can be grouped into broad categories (solid, mono, bonded, soft core...), every bullet design and frontal surface are differents and behaves differently depending on the resistance encountered in the wound channel. I am simply saying that you are taking a risk, and the lower the impact velocity, the greater that risk becomes.
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Olivier said:
These rules are deliberately very strict so that they are easy to remember and help ensure optimal bullet expansion in all circumstances. I am not saying that lower impact velocities cannot work: although bullet constructions can be grouped into broad categories (solid, mono, bonded, soft core...), every bullet design and frontal surface are differents and behaves differently depending on the resistance encountered in the wound channel. I am simply saying that you are taking a risk, and the lower the impact velocity, the greater that risk becomes.
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Hunting Hitman said:
You’ve just been DGX’d. seriously I’ve been posting for years on the horrifically bad performance of the DGX bullet but some still defend it. Now ask yourself if the animal was charging how comfortable you would feel?
Get some custom hand loads that work well with your double and move on with confidence. I like either Swift, TBBC, NorthFork, or Woodleigh.

HH
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I’m going to get some north fork ss made up by superior ammo. I saw some rhino bullets at work on this trip. They were impressive.
 
Olivier said:
As a rule of thumb, monolithic bullets (TSX) and bonded-core bullets (DGX bonded, A-Frame, TTBC) require a minimum impact velocity of around 2,100 fps (650 m/s) to expand properly and reliably, whilst hunting soft-point bullets (ELD-X, Interlock, Power Point...) expand or fragment reliably down to around 1,800 fps (550 m/s) and match-type bullets (ELD-M, SMK) down to 1,600 fps
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Big bore bullets have different designed impact velocity windows than smaller calibers. You can view woodleigh impact velocity windows easier than some others.
 
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