Why shoot certain species?

Stephen Haber

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Potentially controversial thread...

How is that for a title? First, let me say that I AM NOT JUDGING ANYONE! I am a hunter; I love the bush and the experience of taking an animal. I love the taste of venison, and then mounting a trophy. That said, I don't ever see myself shooting an animal JUST for the trophy, or mount. Species like cats, elephant, etc. Why shoot those, unless you have to, such as self defense, or asked by a village to remove a problem animal. I would love to hear from some of you guys that hunt these animals, and why you do it.
 
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Johnny7604

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One thing you may want to consider is just because you wouldn't eat something doesn't mean someone else wouldn't as well. In point of fact from what I saw over there I believe they would find most North American hunters wasteful. All the guts and animals pieces we leave normally leave on the ground they seem to find delicious.

I really don't know why you have elephant as one of your examples. From everything I have seen one of those animals can and indeed does feed an entire community for quite some time.

One last closing opinion on my part is that most true hunters would never hunt an animal "just" for the trophy. I believe very strongly that real hunters hunt for the experience and a love nature. Trophies are just a way to remind us of the experience and honour the animals that God has allowed us to harvest.
 

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I'm a little surprised you didn't acknowledge the fact that hunting funds are the primary source of revenue for wildlife conservation outside of national parks in African. Would that not also be a good justification for sport hunting?
 

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Stephen;
Johnny summed up many points very well above.

It is difficult to put into words to explain to someone who does not understand, yet hunters who do understand do not really need to speak of it to share the understanding of such hunts.

My wife does not consider herself a hunter, yet she trophy hunted (the meat was utilized, but not by us). When she got her zebra in one clean shot after a lot of stalking through the brush and up the mountain. Her face was sweaty and the dust had turned to mud, she was hot, thirsty, exhausted with her hair tangled and matted to her face. Yet she was exuberant, satisfied, proud, and fully content that she had earned the trophy and deserved it. She was in full admiration of the animal and will hang the rug in her office to admire and remind her of that moment and of the fine stallion she hunted hard for and took cleanly and proudly.... Long story but she had gotten sick and almost died (she'll deny that but I've seen enough to know that she was close one night)... After almost 3 weeks in the hospital she decided that she wants to experience all that life offers. So she is afraid of heights but went zip lining over a 458' gorge and up in a hot air balloon. She hunted plains game and will go lion hunting as well. She does it to live life to the fullest. And I am very proud of her.

Hunting is about life and is part of life... and part of our inner being or the makeup of our souls. You can fight it and claim you do not understand, and maybe it manifests itself differently in different people, but it is fully a part of the human race. A real hunter who has a full understanding deep down inside or in his soul, is disgusted by killing, but enthralled by hunting. He feels a great sense of accomplishment and a great sense of sadness in taking the animals life. But he is also a pragmatist and does what it takes to accomplish the task at hand, whether meat hunting or trophy hunting.....

Bob
 

Stephen Haber

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Bob,

Thanks for sharing yours and your wife's story. It sounds to me like you BOTH truly had an experience that will last forever. I can relate to what you are saying, and it is why I started this thread; to hear these stories to help me get my brain around hunting species such as big cats. As a hunter, I want to be able to defend my brother and sister hunters when ignorant and not so ignorant folks attack our passion. Your post will help me in that area. As a believer in the Lord, I greatly appreciate all that He has created, and consider it a great responsibility to be the best steward of His creation. My family has lived in different parts of Africa for 10 years now, and I have seen way too many examples of people not respecting all of what God has created, and it pains me deeply.

By the way, zebra does taste very good, as long as you clean it properly, and the hide makes a beautiful rug. I hope that you and your wife can look at it and remember the wonderful experience that you had together.

Blessings,
Stephen
 

Stephen Haber

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Johnny,

Thanks for your response. You are correct; and elephant will feed a village for a long time. Perhaps I shouldn't have used that as an example.

However, to respond directly to you other point; I have been in a lot of rural and village settings across Africa in the past 10 years, and I personally don't know of any people that will eat big cats. Yes, the "insides" and bones of most plains game are eaten, and when I hunt is give those to either the trackers or the local village so good point there.

Thanks for sharing!
Stephen
 

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This is a story from a NON HUNTER of an Elephant hunt he participated in.

Have a read. It provides an answer to your question.

http://www.gq.com/long-form/who-wants-to-shoot-an-elephant

Brickburn,
Thanks for this link. I read the story in its entirety. The journalist gives a very good interpretation of both sides of the hunt debate. He isn't a hunter, but was open-minded for the most part. Great detail about the setting. Lovely pictures of the after-events.

I probably laughed little too long at the closing paragraph, but I'll bet everyone will at least giggle.
 

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I'm a little surprised you didn't acknowledge the fact that hunting funds are the primary source of revenue for wildlife conservation outside of national parks in African. Would that not also be a good justification for sport hunting?

+1 I have to agree here

I think we try to hard to please people with the whole MEAT issue.

We don't ever want to waste the meat but the meat is BY PRODUCT of African hunting conservation.

To save wildlife OUTSIDE OF NATIONAL PARKS we need to turn them into a business for the people they come in contact with.

We need to show people that they can make MONEY out of keeping them alive.

The so called non edible, lion, leopard, crocodile are PRIME EXAMPLES as they have the biggest conflict with man as they kill people and livestock indiscriminately . They need to generate big Dollars for local tribesmen and ranchers to TOLERATE them.

MEAT is a side issue MONEY is the main issue. If these animals can't compete with conventional ranching / farming practices i.e cattle, goats, sheep, wheat, corn , cotton etc they will be replaced...
Simple economics 101

Let's pray African Hunting stays big business or we're going to lose 90% of Africa's wild areas to ranching / farming / mining developers
Regards
Dave
 

Savage Hunter

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Johnny,

Thanks for your response. You are correct; and elephant will feed a village for a long time. Perhaps I shouldn't have used that as an example.
Stephen
maybe if you had chosen "meercat" instead of elephant?
 

James.Grage

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The funds generated by hunting all African game adds a value to wildlife. The question on hunting is being attacked on many fronts.
Weather we hunt an animal species or not, someone else may do so and think it is the cats meow. If it is legal we need to support it.

1. Animal utilization is almost is in it's entirety in small villages.
the hunter gets the skull - horns - tusks and hide.
The meat goes to the land owner or tribal area for distribution.
the innards are all taken and used by locals. By the way these are pecking order for the village or tracker skinners.
On my recent trip the waiting line for the innards was long at the skinning shed at all stops.

2. Money generated - Trophy fees
Goes to the State. land owner or tribal area for distribution. - some times squandered and stolen by the few in charge.
Pays for anti-poaching and wages for workers, trackers - skinners & scouts.

3. PH fees
Pays for wages - camp rentals & camp other expenses.

As far as animals not being eaten, i have not seen that.
The only animals that i have not seen eaten were the ones that were hung for lion - leopard or hyena bait.

Cats are eaten - Crocodiles are eaten the white meat is quite oily i think.
 

Stephen Haber

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+1 I have to agree here

I think we try to hard to please people with the whole MEAT issue.

We don't ever want to waste the meat but the meat is BY PRODUCT of African hunting conservation.

To save wildlife OUTSIDE OF NATIONAL PARKS we need to turn them into a business for the people they come in contact with.

We need to show people that they can make MONEY out of keeping them alive.

The so called non edible, lion, leopard, crocodile are PRIME EXAMPLES as they have the biggest conflict with man as they kill people and livestock indiscriminately . They need to generate big Dollars for local tribesmen and ranchers to TOLERATE them.

MEAT is a side issue MONEY is the main issue. If these animals can't compete with conventional ranching / farming practices i.e cattle, goats, sheep, wheat, corn , cotton etc they will be replaced...
Simple economics 101

Let's pray African Hunting stays big business or we're going to lose 90% of Africa's wild areas to ranching / farming / mining developers
Regards
Dave
Great points Dave. Thank you for helping to expand my thinking. As I speak to others about the topic, i want to be able to influence them where i can. And, if they are so closed minded, at least i know that the points i am making are valid ones.

Cheers!
Stephen
 

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...The so called non edible, lion, leopard, crocodile...

Dave, but hunters do eat them...fact, and they claim is nice, especially Lion...damn, luckily i am not so hard-up for meat...:eek:
 

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+1 I have to agree here

I think we try to hard to please people with the whole MEAT issue.

We don't ever want to waste the meat but the meat is BY PRODUCT of African hunting conservation.

To save wildlife OUTSIDE OF NATIONAL PARKS we need to turn them into a business for the people they come in contact with.

We need to show people that they can make MONEY out of keeping them alive.

The so called non edible, lion, leopard, crocodile are PRIME EXAMPLES as they have the biggest conflict with man as they kill people and livestock indiscriminately . They need to generate big Dollars for local tribesmen and ranchers to TOLERATE them.

MEAT is a side issue MONEY is the main issue. If these animals can't compete with conventional ranching / farming practices i.e cattle, goats, sheep, wheat, corn , cotton etc they will be replaced...
Simple economics 101

Let's pray African Hunting stays big business or we're going to lose 90% of Africa's wild areas to ranching / farming / mining developers
Regards
Dave

Excellent points right here chaps.
Dave, any chance of a report on the Lion hunt you just come back from? Looked like the guys had a blast!
 

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Let's pray African Hunting stays big business or we're going to lose 90% of Africa's wild areas to ranching / farming / mining developers
Regards
Dave

Dave you are so right. the speed that the bush is being transformed into farm land is frightening..............
 

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Dave, but hunters do eat them...fact, and they claim is nice, especially Lion...damn, luckily i am not so hard-up for meat...:eek:

patrick nothing wrong with a nice lion kebab or tender leopard fillet ;), but i wouldnt now with the cat diseases lions are getting :sick:
 

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We had kabobs of various game meats at an expensive restaurant in Cape Town and croc was part of that.
 

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We had kabobs of various game meats at an expensive restaurant in Cape Town and croc was part of that.

AB there are quite a few places serving croc cocktail, croc thermidor or plain croc burgers. must confess i have never partaken of croc meat simply because i hear of fishermen and women/kids being taken on a regular basis . the farmed ones in the restaurants are fine but you never know what/who the ones in the rivers etc have been eating so kinda puts me off trying those ones........:)
 

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Johnny,

Thanks for your response. You are correct; and elephant will feed a village for a long time. Perhaps I shouldn't have used that as an example.

However, to respond directly to you other point; I have been in a lot of rural and village settings across Africa in the past 10 years, and I personally don't know of any people that will eat big cats. Yes, the "insides" and bones of most plains game are eaten, and when I hunt is give those to either the trackers or the local village so good point there.

Thanks for sharing!
Stephen

the only things that will be thrown away are the stomach contents , gall bladder and hooves. not 100pcnt but i think the people in western african countries eat the cats if shot. anything that can possibly be used for relish will be. meat, be it dried, smoked or fresh or not so fresh is better than money in a lot of places. people have brought up a lot of relevant points, but everything has to work together from the monetary/business side to the meat, employment and providing compensation in the way of hunting income distribution in animal/human conflict areas . its too easy to poison the cats if the people dont get to see the value of them through compensation paid from hunting revenue, and/or employment by the hunting companies. look what happens in kenya when the people loose cattle etc to lions they poison the lot ..http://www.lionconservation.org/lion-poisoning.html. the last part says it all to me

"However, in the long term, we must find ways to make predators more valuable to the rural people who share the land with wildlife. So long as wild animals are regarded by people as an expensive nuisance rather than a valuable resource, wildlife in Africa will continue to decline, eaten as cheap bush meat, poisoned and speared as pests"

maybe if kenya would reopen hunting they might find the way to make those predators have a value to the rural people. unfortunately the people looking for this magic remedy would never condone the reopening of hunting in kenya...........so stephen seems like you have been given plenty of reasons why/for the hunting of all the species from small to big and supposedly non edible, if it earns its keep it will stay (even thats not a given in this day and age) otherwise probably not..........................................
 
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