Swift A Frame Results

BeeMaa

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TOBY458

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What is your personal opinion on the 416 RM vs the 416 Rigby?
I think the 416 Rem Mag and 416 Ruger will do all that's required from a 416, with less recoil, less expensive ammo and lighter weight rifles. Now that we have very temperature insensitive powders and pressure is no longer an issue with the 416 Rem Mag (not sure it ever was) I don't see much need in using a huge case such as the Rigby to drive a 400 grain bullet at 2300-2400 FPS.
That said, it's hard to argue against anyone who uses the Rigby, as it's proven itself on game much more than the two smaller cartridges I mentioned. But, in reality, a 400 grain 416 bullet at 2300-2400 FPS is the same thing no matter what cartridge it comes from.
 

johnnyblues

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Taken out of my buffalo. Swift A frames.

0D2B5C42-9C19-42D5-B76D-4D85A4D78006.jpeg
 
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BeeMaa

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I think the 416 Rem Mag and 416 Ruger will do all that's required from a 416, with less recoil, less expensive ammo and lighter weight rifles. Now that we have very temperature insensitive powders and pressure is no longer an issue with the 416 Rem Mag (not sure it ever was) I don't see much need in using a huge case such as the Rigby to drive a 400 grain bullet at 2300-2400 FPS.
That said, it's hard to argue against anyone who uses the Rigby, as it's proven itself on game much more than the two smaller cartridges I mentioned. But, in reality, a 400 grain 416 bullet at 2300-2400 FPS is the same thing no matter what cartridge it comes from.
Thank you sir.
I've read several of your posts and know how you like a light rifle, however I'm not nearly as tolerant to recoil as you.
Considering a 416 of some sort in the future...and leaning toward the RM at the moment.
 

TOBY458

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Thank you sir.
I've read several of your posts and know how you like a light rifle, however I'm not nearly as tolerant to recoil as you.
Considering a 416 of some sort in the future...and leaning toward the RM at the moment.
My thoughts on rifle weight are, recoil is only momentary, but gun weight goes on forever. In hunting situations I've never felt recoil. It's only while practicing that recoil is of concern. In that case, you can load down a bit and shoot at the range, ect. Then when it's time to go hunting, you just load up to normal levels and go hunting. Also not shooting off of a bench rest is a huge help. I'm even thinking about building a standing bench so I can always shoot standing up. The 416 RM is definitely a great cartridge IMO, and my Winchester 70 in that chambering is one of the most accurate rifles I own. I just wish it were a bit lighter weight. Also, stock fit is more important than weight for managing recoil. Case in point, I have a Kimber Montana in 308 that weighs less than 6lbs with a 2-7×32 scope installed. The stock shape is such that it doesn't recoil as badly as some 8lb 308 rifles I've shot. Out of all the big rifles I've shot, the Remington 798 Mauser in 458 Win mag was the worst. It was almost unshootable with heavy loads. Never mind, the NEF single shot 12 ga with Brenneke slugs was worse.... lol! Get you a 416. You'll learn to like it!
 

BeeMaa

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My thoughts on rifle weight are, recoil is only momentary, but gun weight goes on forever. In hunting situations I've never felt recoil. It's only while practicing that recoil is of concern. In that case, you can load down a bit and shoot at the range, ect. Then when it's time to go hunting, you just load up to normal levels and go hunting. Also not shooting off of a bench rest is a huge help. I'm even thinking about building a standing bench so I can always shoot standing up. The 416 RM is definitely a great cartridge IMO, and my Winchester 70 in that chambering is one of the most accurate rifles I own. I just wish it were a bit lighter weight. Also, stock fit is more important than weight for managing recoil. Case in point, I have a Kimber Montana in 308 that weighs less than 6lbs with a 2-7×32 scope installed. The stock shape is such that it doesn't recoil as badly as some 8lb 308 rifles I've shot. Out of all the big rifles I've shot, the Remington 798 Mauser in 458 Win mag was the worst. It was almost unshootable with heavy loads. Never mind, the NEF single shot 12 ga with Brenneke slugs was worse.... lol! Get you a 416. You'll learn to like it!
Wife and I ONLY shoot from hunting positions (mostly standing off sticks), the bench is for getting them dialed in IMO.
Feel the same about recoil when hunting as well, I never remember feeling a shot.
To that end I'll have an opportunity to shoot a 4-something (I believe a 458WM) and a 500 double rifle (maybe 500NE).
Firearms belong to my PH and he wants me to take a poke with them at 50 yards, standing from sticks.
He really just wants to get me back for another trip to include Buff and wants to see how I'll deal with the recoil.
I'll be hunting with my 375H&H for the trip, but it's an opportunity for me to try a truly large bore for possible future hunts.
If they have a 416RM at the camp, I may ask to shoot it as well.
I appreciate the vote of confidence in stepping up, but we will see how it goes.
Thank you sir.
 

TOBY458

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Looks like my cartridge choices for my upcoming lion/cape buffalo/eland hunt may be a bit different this time. The Winchester 70 416 RM will probably be replaced by my new Dakota 76 458 Lott, and the Kimber 375 may be replaced by my new Sako 9.3x62. I still plan to use Swift Bullets in both calibers though.
 

Shootist43

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Fine choices my friend. Although I don't recall seeing range results for either of those new rifles of yours.
 

TOBY458

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Fine choices my friend. Although I don't recall seeing range results for either of those new rifles of yours.
That's true. I haven't seriously shot either rifle as of yet. I shot the Lott 10 times yesterday to get a feel for it. I rang a 12" gong, off hand at 200 yards, with the first shot I fired at my friend's range. It hit it so hard, it wrapped the chain around the stand. Haha! I plan to go back there soon and do an accuracy test and sight the scope in at 100 yards.
As for the 9.3, I've sighted the scope in at 75 yards at my home range, but nothing further. I'm still debating on which bullets to use in the 9.3. I'm stuck between 250gr TSX or 286gr Swifts. Since I'm hunting lion, I'm told it's best to use a lighter faster bullet. But there are also Cape Buffalo on the Lion property, so I want a bullet that will do either job if the need arises.
On the 458 Lott, I'll probably use either 450gr or 500 grain Swifts. I got a box of 450 grainers with the rifle, so I'll see how they shoot. I was using Hornady DGX 500gr yesterday, but don't plan to hunt with them.
 

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I wouldn't thing you'd be giving up too much penetration by using the 250 Gr. vs the 286 but you would be gaining a little velocity. Is Pieter in agreement with your choice of caliber for the Lion? I thought the minimum caliber for DG is 375. Or are you using the 458 Lott on the Lion and the 9.3 x 62 for PG and maybe a Buffalo if one crosses your path? Back in the day the "locals" took a lot of Buffalo with their 9.3 x 62(s).
 

TOBY458

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I wouldn't thing you'd be giving up too much penetration by using the 250 Gr. vs the 286 but you would be gaining a little velocity. Is Pieter in agreement with your choice of caliber for the Lion? I thought the minimum caliber for DG is 375. Or are you using the 458 Lott on the Lion and the 9.3 x 62 for PG and maybe a Buffalo if one crosses your path? Back in the day the "locals" took a lot of Buffalo with their 9.3 x 62(s).
I told him I was planning on using the 9.3 for Lion, and he said it was fine. But who knows, I might just take my 375 along with the 458 instead. It all depends on what kind of load I come up with for the 9.3.
 

BWH

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@TOBY458 so the Kimber 375 is for sale?
 

TOBY458

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@TOBY458 so the Kimber 375 is for sale?
Absolutely not! I would part with many other rifles before the Kimber would be on the chopping block. That's the problem with having so many suitable rifles for the task. It's very hard to decide which one you want to take hunting.
When I was younger and having rifles like this was merely a dream, I always read plenty of Ross Seyfried and kept working and saving so I could afford to hunt Alaska, Australia and Africa one day.
Luckily, I've been fortunate enough to hunt all three places now, and the rifles I've used have a story to tell. That Kimber 375 has taken Kudu, Zebra, Waterbuck, Impala, Belsbuck, Gemsbuck and Wildebeest in Africa and a big Wild Boar in my home state of Georgia. So....it's safe in the safe!
 

IdaRam

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That's the problem with having so many suitable rifles for the task. It's very hard to decide which one you want to take hunting.
I have the same damn problem! Only I answer I can come up with is we just ain’t hunting enough! :D Really need to fix that...
 

BeeMaa

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Wanted to share the only 4 recovered bullets from my safari.
All were shot from a CZ550 375H&H with a 22" barrel.
I hit the Gemsbuck at 160 yards on the left shoulder quartering slightly toward me, the bullet stopping just under the skin on the opposite side ribs. He goes down about 50 yards away. As he starts to get up I place a follow up shot going into the left ribs stopping under the hide of the right shoulder. I'm not sure which bullet is which.
Eland was hit with a full broadside shot to the right shoulder destroying it and lodging in the off side ribcage/chest area. He stumbles and I follow up with a shot to the left side ribs as he runs away. The bullet lodging under the right shoulder area. Again I'm not sure about which bullet is which.
With results like this, I'm unlikely to be changing brands for my 375.
 

flatwater bill

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Excellent trophy quality..........bullet and shooter did very well...........thanks for posting................FWB
 

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Definitely my choice for my 375, had excellent results on my buffalo.
 

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I've still not hunted myself with the A-Frames, but just returned from a hunt where @AZ KJ used them in one of his two rifles. Specifically he used 160gr variety in his 7mm magnum. Of the animals he shot that were properly hit, the results were devastating. The animal either went down immediately (one was a black WB) or in such short order no tracking required.
 

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