Politics

[Red Leg]

Is the heat on Hegseth for the second strike on the drug boat justified?

In conflict, nations are and frankly should be capable of great ruthlessness. As we saw with the trial of General Yamashita in 1946, the separation between appropriate and inappropriate ruthlessness is largely determined by the victor.

Probably the most ruthless action taken by American forces in our history was during the Battle of the Bismarck Sea in early March 1943. Over two days American and RAF bombers attacked a Japanese convoy attempting to land over 6 thousand infantrymen to aid the defense of Lae, New Guinea. Most of the transports were sunk by low level bombers putting thousands of troops into the water in lifeboats, rafts, or simple life preservers. Follow on strikes were then carried out relentlessly machine gunning those survivors. At least 3 thousand were killed. The irrefutable logic was that every soldier that did not make it ashore increased the likelihood of the allied land offensive succeeding. But, it also was the sort of deliberate carnage that makes the Malmedey Massacre look like child's play.

In a parallel universe, it would be interesting to discover the fates of Douglas MacArthur and George Kenney had Japan won the war.

Assuming our intel was correct, it is hard for me to get very excited about the fate of a drug runner.

 

[Red Leg]

This article doesn’t fit the narrative of most on the AH Political Forum but it does a give an insightful and cited view of the current Ukraine situation.

It's Past Time For The Ukraine-Russia War Obama Started To End

Without the collusion hoax, the impeachment farce, and the 51 intel officials laundering deception, there likely would have been no war.

thefederalist.com

I am convinced, and so are a number of actual political/military experts who I know and respect, that this is a false assumption - "(Russia) retains the manpower and resources to sustain the war indefinitely." I do not know anything about Hans Mahncke, keeping track of "in house counsels" of unidentified "global business advisory firms" isn't high on my priority list. I will simply say a small legion of real experts will strongly disagree with it.

What is sadly clear is that this false assumption, and the spin he has put on every bit of information and speculation about Ukraine, has been seized upon by the neo-isolationists and our current President to try and force Ukraine into a peace which Russia is incapable of winning on the battlefield. While I have nothing good to say about how either the Obama or Biden administrations managed the evolving Ukraine conflict, I find it mind numbingly laughable that the crux of that failing was that the US and West in general were not sufficiently nice to the Russian people and their despotic leader. As Mahncke puts it "Russia and its 144 million citizens were relentlessly vilified in the process, making them, uncomfortable as it may be to admit, victims in their own right." Gosh, I feel a tear on my cheek.

As a result, we should understand the trauma they felt, and reward them for invading an independent country and inflicting hundreds of thousands of casualties while suffering many times more themselves?!? I find that logic stupefying, and it shames me this administration seems to embrace this nonsense.

I would suggest a far more logical and honest way to look at the historical precedence of RUSSIA'S UNILATERAL DECISION TO INVADE UKRAINE, is Putin saw in the weakness of Europe, perfidy of Obama, senility of Biden, and anti-Euro/NATO rhetoric of the Trump movement as an opportunity to steel a march on the West by achieving a coup de main in Ukraine fulfilling a major plank of the his expansionist goals. What no one seems to have considered, and to the particular frustration of the neo-isolationists, was the willingness of the Ukrainian people to fight for their right to self-determination and a future aligned with Western Europe. I guess they just didn't realize that they were simply being manipulated by the neocons and global elites.

Putin's three weeks of conquest have become a disastrous economic and military quagmire for Russia, and Russians have no one to blame but the decision maker in Moscow. Sadly, non-serious Russian centric foreign policy dilatants are determined to enable a Russian victory from those catastrophic decisions.

 

[K-man]

I certainly appreciate your input as to a military necessity for violence. The public awareness of our society today means we see/hear every unfortunate detail almost instantly. There is a great difference between a declared war against an invading foreign nation and a drug war with a quasi-terrorist cartel. It is difficult to merge military needs with a media that seeks headlines and sensationalism at any cost. My biggest concern is what could happen to our civilians caught in a foreign country if we treat shipwreck survivors ruthlessly.

 

[Brent in Az]

Is the heat on Hegseth for the second strike on the drug boat justified?

Democrat political theater. That's how they roll. They have no logical policy for anything, so they create a narrative for the media lapdogs to chew on to keep the leftist lemmings in a frenzy over nothing.
The only good cartel member, is a dead one.

 

[Betterinthebush]

I certainly appreciate your input as to a military necessity for violence. The public awareness of our society today means we see/hear every unfortunate detail almost instantly. There is a great difference between a declared war against an invading foreign nation and a drug war with a quasi-terrorist cartel. It is difficult to merge military needs with a media that seeks headlines and sensationalism at any cost. My biggest concern is what could happen to our civilians caught in a foreign country if we treat shipwreck survivors ruthlessly.

Professional soldiers don’t have the luxury of worrying about who is in the target package. All soldiers/sailors/airmen receive orders. And those order are carried out. Or the last orders one may hear could be “Ready.. Aim.. F…”

These people being blown out of the water are drug running pirates. Well, don’t think for a moment they aren’t flying the black flag. So, reciprocating courtesy rules.

One would have to book a crocodile hunt and steal a tear from one after the shot before you could get one out of me for a drug runner.

 

[Altitude sickness]

I am definitely not a Hegseth apologist. He needs to answer for his error on the Signal APP

If I or any of us had included the media in a chat discussing an ongoing military operation. Discussing tactics, schedules and weapons. I would have been quickly disciplined and then most likely broomed out of the Navy.
On the positive side. He has quickly removed a lot of the social experimentation silliness from DOD.

On the subject of bombing “peaceful fisherman”. Then a second strike on those same Gilligan’s Island survivors. Its all ridiculous. Pull up some videos of what the Cartels do to their victims.

Those heavily loaded boats are traveling at 20-30 knots. And I don’t see any Marlin trolling gear on fantail. So perhaps they were in a fishing tournament off of Venezuela. And were merely getting to the best fishing grounds quickly.

OR ! Our people on the ground in Venezuela pin point who is on which boat and exactly what they are doing. They have been declared a terrorist organization and continue the “off shore fishing” as liberals call it. So carrying all those square groupers comes with risk.

For context, there are hundreds of these videos online showing survivors being killed. Our troops taking care of business during Obama’s presidency. I bet Obama hopes nobody gets prosecuted for the Drug runners deaths.

2 Apaches Engage Taliban Platoon

Apache helicopters eliminate a platoon of Taliban setting up to ambush a U.S. special forces patrol. Footage taken during operations in 2009 in Afghanistan. THIS IS STRICTLY FOR EDUCATIONAL AND HISTORICAL DOCUMENTING PURPOSES.

www.military.com

 

[Altitude sickness]

I can do this all day. Another Obama era engagement. The media would spin this video as some innocent Afghanistan potato farmers digging their crop in the middle of a road. The video shows the initial strike and then gunfire finishing off potato farmer survivors.

Insurgents Caught Planting Explosives

B-roll of Helicopter gun camera video footage released today shows the deliberate steps International Security Assistance Force personnel took when countering the threat of Improvised Explosive Devices (IED) placed by two insurgents Aug. 5 along a road in southern Zabul province, Afghanistan...

www.dvidshub.net

 

[Saul]

I just find it curious that this story seems to have gained such traction with GOP congressmen. I wonder if it is a convenient opportunity to criticize Hegseth for his other conduct, or if it is more a means of indirectly expressing their displeasure with Trump.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Hegseth deserves criticism. The Gilligan’s Island survivors isn’t one of those areas.

 

[mdwest]

I just find it curious that this story seems to have gained such traction with GOP congressmen. I wonder if it is a convenient opportunity to criticize Hegseth for his other conduct, or if it is more a means of indirectly expressing their displeasure with Trump.

I think it will blow over within the next day or two and the MSN will find something new to bitch about and to get congressmen to talk on TV about..

Nothing lasts more than about 3 news cycles during the holiday season.. by Friday morning they'll have a photoshopped pic of trump wearing a green suit stealing presents out from under all of the trees in whoville.. and will swear to God he's broken a law and should be impeached for it..

 

[Saul]

I think it will blow over within the next day or two and the MSN will find something new to bitch about and to get congressmen to talk on TV about..

Nothing lasts more than about 3 news cycles during the holiday season.. by Friday morning they'll have a photoshopped pic of trump wearing a green suit stealing presents out from under all of the trees in whoville.. and will swear to God he's broken a law and should be impeached for it..

Trump would never be caught dead in green. If it were a gold suit though…

 

[Altitude sickness]

Does anyone actually believe Democrats care about Venezuelan drug runners.

Or is this the latest shiny object thrown to the media and peasants. Meant to distract from the latest Somali Medicare fraud topic.

This isn’t a Minnesota issue. It’s a nation wide Democrat scam. Keep throwing Medicare and Medicaid money to the democrats for their scams. No wonder they were so upset over the Obama subsidies.

Create a NGO with immigrants running them. Funnel millions into the NGO which kicks back to the Democrat politicians. This investigation is gaining more traction. So out comes the latest distraction for we simpletons to foam at the mouth.

 

[Saul]

Does anyone actually believe Democrats care about Venezuelan drug runners.

Or is this the latest shiny object thrown to the media and peasants. Meant to distract from the latest Somali Medicare fraud topic.

This isn’t a Minnesota issue. It’s a nation wide Democrat scam. Keep throwing Medicare and Medicaid money to the democrats for their scams. No wonder they were so upset over the Obama subsidies.

Create a NGO with immigrants running them. Funnel millions into the NGO which kicks back to the Democrat politicians. This investigation is gaining more traction. So out comes the latest distraction for we simpletons to foam at the mouth.

I believe there are quite a few on the left who do actually care about the drug runners because they have bought the lie that they are just innocent fishermen caught up in Trump’s machinations over Venezuela.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Sorry Saul, I should have been more clear. I meant Democrat politicians. Not voters. Im sure there are voters being hoodwinked into believing they are innocent fishermen.

 

[mdwest]

I believe there are quite a few on the left who do actually care about the drug runners because they have bought the lie that they are just innocent fishermen caught up in Trump’s machinations over Venezuela.

Some insignificant congressman was on CNN this afternoon spouting similar nonsense.. essentially saying that while it is very likely that there are tons of dope on these boats, that the people on the boats are not drug smugglers.. theyre just common folk trying to make a living.. the real drug smugglers hire common people to drive the boats.. and Venezuelans are poor and impoverished.. that its not their fault... theyre just trying to feed their families..

Lets see.... the far left loves the concept of socialism.... and yet here is this guy saying people in Venezuela (a socialist country) are so poor and impoverished that they dont really have a choice.. they must bring tons of dope into the US.. its the only way they can survive.. they shouldnt be killed for it..

So... if Chavez never came to power, and Venezuela was still the oil rich nation it was in the 1990's, then it would be ok to kill them? and... oh, by the way... Socialism is a good thing?????? Its what we should all want here too????

I suppose if the cartels were hiring Belgians or Russians or maybe some Japanese guys to drive their dope boats.. then it would be ok to kill them.. because if you come from a developed country... then youre a bad guy for bringing dope into the US...

The tripe coming out of some of these guys mouths is honestly unbelievable...

and yet.. we've got people believing their asshattery..

 

[Saul]

Sorry Saul, I should have been more clear. I meant Democrat politicians. Not voters. Im sure there are voters being hoodwinked into believing they are innocent fishermen.

Can you really blame them, though? This administration is so incompetent that their hamfisted responses, even when true, come across as lies.

 

[Saul]

Some insignificant congressman was on CNN this afternoon spouting similar nonsense.. essentially saying that while it is very likely that there are tons of dope on these boats, that the people on the boats are not drug smugglers.. theyre just common folk trying to make a living.. the real drug smugglers hire common people to drive the boats.. and Venezuelans are poor and impoverished.. that its not their fault... theyre just trying to feed their families..

Lets see.... the far left loves the concept of socialism.... and yet here is this guy saying people in Venezuela (a socialist country) are so poor and impoverished that they dont really have a choice.. they must bring tons of dope into the US.. its the only way they can survive.. they shouldnt be killed for it..

So... if Chavez never came to power, and Venezuela was still the oil rich nation it was in the 1990's, then it would be ok to kill them? and... oh, by the way... Socialism is a good thing?????? Its what we should all want here too????

I suppose if the cartels were hiring Belgians or Russians or maybe some Japanese guys to drive their dope boats.. then it would be ok to kill them.. because if you come from a developed country... then youre a bad guy for bringing dope into the US...

The tripe coming out of some of these guys mouths is honestly unbelievable...

and yet.. we've got people believing their asshattery..

You do not get it, we just need to try the “good” socialism of the Scandinavians, and please ignore their corporate tax rates.

 

[mdwest]

You do not get it, we just need to try the “good” socialism of the Scandinavians, and please ignore their corporate tax rates.

I love it when some of my more centrist liberal friends try that argument... I simply ask them WHICH Scandanavian country they are talking about...

most sit there tongue tied and dont have an answer..

occasionally I'll get one to spout out something like Norway!, or Denmark!...

So then I ask them to google or to use AI (ChatGPT, Grok, whatever.. take your pick) and ask if Denmark is a socialist country.. or if Norway.. or Sweden.. or ANY Scandinavian country is socialist..

The answer is a very clear NO... every single Scandinavian country has a robust capitalist market economy...

What they have are very extensive social welfare programs.. which is something very different...

So then my fine liberal friends say something to the effect of "well.. thats what we mean.. what we want is their social welfare programs!"...

Then I let them know that middle income earners in Norway pay 50% income tax as well as a 25% VAT, and a number of other very high taxes that we dont have in the US.. that their "Free" healthcare and FREE educational benefits, etc.. are not free at all.. that the typical middle income Norwegian has less than 1/2 the disposable income of their American peer.. so.. are they willing to give up half of all of the things they have in life.. drive a lessor car, live in a lessor house, have less clothing in their huge walk in closets, etc.. etc.. in exchange for not paying for their health insurance..

The answer is obviously no.... but.. but... but... we can figure it out!

Really? So there arent really smart people in Norway, or Sweden, or Denmark? They havent figured out a system that you can agree with... but you think we can?

Im at the point that I think its nothing more than stubbornness that has the left clinging to the whole socialist concept.... I have yet to talk to anyone that can demonstrate any evidence that a socialist system of government would work in the US any better than it has anywhere else.. or have anyone other than a lazy assed millennial that simply doesnt want to work (and admits it) to survive advocate for doubling their taxes in exchange for the social welfare programs of Europe..

Hell.. the strongest advocates of Socialism in the US (Bernie Sanders et al) arent Socialists at all.. and they definitely dont support THEIR bank accounts getting drained in favor of providing others better hand outs.. According to Forbes, Bernies personal net worth in 2025 is $2.5M... and.. he'd be worth a shit ton more if he wasnt such a spender.. as of 2019 Forbes estimated he had brought in more than $5M in less than 10 years.. all on a Senators salary ($174K a year).. he's been in congress for 33 years and held no other jobs... Bernie will tell you he's made all of his money on book deals and investments (Forbes confirms that his tax returns show that most of his money comes from those things as well).. in short Bernie LOVES taking advantage of the capitalist system... while telling YOU that you need to be a socialst..

 

[Saul]

I love it when some of my more centrist liberal friends try that argument... I simply ask them WHICH Scandanavian country they are talking about...

most sit there tongue tied and dont have an answer..

occasionally I'll get one to spout out something like Norway!, or Denmark!...

So then I ask them to google or to use AI (ChatGPT, Grok, whatever.. take your pick) and ask if Denmark is a socialist country.. or if Norway.. or Sweden.. or ANY Scandinavian country is socialist..

The answer is a very clear NO... every single Scandinavian country has a robust capitalist market economy...

What they have are very extensive social welfare programs.. which is something very different...

So then my fine liberal friends say something to the effect of "well.. thats what we mean.. what we want is their social welfare programs!"...

Then I let them know that middle income earners in Norway pay 50% income tax as well as a 25% VAT, and a number of other very high taxes that we dont have in the US.. that their "Free" healthcare and FREE educational benefits, etc.. are not free at all.. that the typical middle income Norwegian has less than 1/2 the disposable income of their American peer.. so.. are they willing to give up half of all of the things they have in life.. drive a lessor car, live in a lessor house, have less clothing in their huge walk in closets, etc.. etc.. in exchange for not paying for their health insurance..

The answer is obviously no.... but.. but... but... we can figure it out!

Really? So there arent really smart people in Norway, or Sweden, or Denmark? They havent figured out a system that you can agree with... but you think we can?

Im at the point that I think its nothing more than stubbornness that has the left clinging to the whole socialist concept.... I have yet to talk to anyone that can demonstrate any evidence that a socialist system of government would work in the US any better than it has anywhere else.. or have anyone other than a lazy assed millennial that simply doesnt want to work (and admits it) to survive advocate for doubling their taxes in exchange for the social welfare programs of Europe..

Hell.. the strongest advocates of Socialism in the US (Bernie Sanders et al) arent Socialists at all.. and they definitely dont support THEIR bank accounts getting drained in favor of providing others better hand outs.. According to Forbes, Bernies personal net worth in 2025 is $2.5M... and.. he'd be worth a shit ton more if he wasnt such a spender.. as of 2019 Forbes estimated he had brought in more than $5M in less than 10 years.. all on a Senators salary ($174K a year).. he's been in congress for 33 years and held no other jobs... Bernie will tell you he's made all of his money on book deals and investments (Forbes confirms that his tax returns show that most of his money comes from those things as well).. in short Bernie LOVES taking advantage of the capitalist system... while telling YOU that you need to be a socialst..

But we are the richest country in the world! Surely, we can afford to have all of the entitlement programs! Except we would not be the richest country in the world if we spent all of our money on entitlements.

And please do not bring up Bernie, he gives a bad name to anyone left of Ghengis Khan.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Actually, you are correct. We have plenty of money for social programs. The issue is allowing anybody from all over the globe to come collect those benefits. And all the fraud. If it weren’t for the fraud and open floodgates, we could afford to take care of people much better than we do now. .