Monos vs Bonded

Alexandro Faria

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It could be that I suck at searching for stuff using google, but I do know we have some outstanding ballisticians on the group, so I would like to put it to you guys:

A mate of mine has a 7mm rem mag that's currently loaded with 160gr accubonds. The formula works great as is, but I noticed penetration wasn't too impressive.

If you wanted to maximize penetration and the ability to deal with large bone, what would you choose to go with?

I'm thinking on the lines of barnes TTSX vs Swift A Frame vs Federal Trophy Bonded etc

Scenarios just for examples:

1) Non-ideal angles (quartering shots and texas heart shorts on fleeing, wounded game) on big game
2) Hitting large bones (Humerus, top of the radius or scapular) of big game

When I say big game, I mean eland/kudu and the US equivalent (moose/elk)

Interested to hear what you guys have to say!
 

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To be honest, any of those three. They are all built to expand but retain 90+ % of their weight and get very good penetration. I shot a zebra with a 168 grain TTSX from a 30-06 quartering towards me, breaking the front leg and travelling completely though it diagonally stopping just inside the hide. It didn't lose any weight. Zebra are a stout animal. But I bet the A-Frame or Trophy Bonded Bear Claw will do the same.
 

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There is an occasional rumbling in the force that the TSX family doesn't expand as reliably in smaller calibers as it so consistently does from a .338+. I have never experienced that, but I am absolutely certain that a Swift A frame will perform perfectly from a fast 7mm.
 

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It could be that I suck at searching for stuff using google, but I do know we have some outstanding ballisticians on the group, so I would like to put it to you guys:

A mate of mine has a 7mm rem mag that's currently loaded with 160gr accubonds. The formula works great as is, but I noticed penetration wasn't too impressive.

If you wanted to maximize penetration and the ability to deal with large bone, what would you choose to go with?

I'm thinking on the lines of barnes TTSX vs Swift A Frame vs Federal Trophy Bonded etc

Scenarios just for examples:

1) Non-ideal angles (quartering shots and texas heart shorts on fleeing, wounded game) on big game
2) Hitting large bones (Humerus, top of the radius or scapular) of big game

When I say big game, I mean eland/kudu and the US equivalent (moose/elk)

Interested to hear what you guys have to say!

Alexandro,
I shoot mono metals as well as lead core bullets across different calibers and I think it really comes down to horses for courses and what you are looking to achieve. Any of the premium "softs" that you have mentioned there, will get the job done on Kudu/Eland on either broadside or slight to medium quartering away shots. They will all break the heavy shoulder bones on Eland and get to the vitals.
There is no doubt that the TTSX will out penetrate the bonded bullets. However, my experience is that the lead core bullets creates more trauma within the body, compared to monos.
I certainly would not recommend a TTSX for a Texas Heart Shot as first shot on Kudu/Eland. I'm not convinced that it will get through everything to get to the vitals on those animals. On small/medium game, sure.
As a follow up on a wounded animal, anything goes, and in that case, I would rather have the TTSX. This is a decision that you will need to make.

Take Care,
Marius Goosen
 

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I'm a big fan of the Trophy Bonded Bear Claw (TBBC) or the Trophy Bonded Tipped (TBT) they both work great in my 30-06 and 300 WM. If your looking for better penetration on big game you may want to change your caliber and not your bullet. My brother used a 225 grain accubond out of his 35 Whelen in Africa and had complete pass thru on everything he shot including his Kudu.
 

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If I need to answer the question choosing one of the options provided, it will be a mono.
But I personally think the right answer for the mentioned problem scenario's is use the right gun. I feel a 7mm is marginal for less than perfect shots on the mentioned animals, never mind the shots mentioned. A premium bullet of any design, in a larger caliber and a moderate speed should do a much better job solving your problem. .338, 9,3 or 375 with a Barnes or A-frame will have to be my answer. I shot a kudu last year, one shot kill. The bullet entered 1/3 back through the ribs, rumen, liver lungs and was lodged in the far shoulder. 190m shot with a 230gr Peregrine bullet out of a 375H&H. It worked, but will i try that shot again after seeing it did not exit, probably not, not even with a 375.
 

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No help from me, the ONLY bullet I use is the accubond in every caliber. I don't use 7mm, do use 6mm, 6.5mm, 30, 33, and 375. Switched from partitions many years ago, they kill but also caused me sewing on skins. Never seen a need to look at others. At least not yet, when the no lead idiots hit maybe then be forced to change. I can give no verified input, but I cant recall ever reading or hearing a bad comment on the bear claws.

MB
 

wswolf

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Nosler Partitions generally penetrate deeper than Accubonds of the same weight since they do not expand as wide. You might consider 175 Partitions as well.
 

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my favourite shot on camels with swift aframes is on the point of the shoulder with the animal quartering facing me.
this shot has always been spectacular in its results.
these animals are big, and have big bones.
and the point of the shoulder involves ball joints etc - hard thick bones.
in the 7mm stw I have come to prefer barnes x, I suspect because they penetrate more, but cause less trauma on the way through.
this helps make a marginal calibre a bit better.
for smaller game in 7mm I like the nosler partition for lung shots, and will not even use it in the 9.3, as this gun is not for smaller species.
never equate the partition with the bullets you mentioned.
sometimes the nose will blow off on big bones, completely changing the direction of penetration.
bruce.
 

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The entire mechanics of the Partition has always interested me, and between that and the Accubond, I have always leaned towards the latter when asked by hunters which one I preferred.

What I find difficult to comprehend, is that if any other bullet loses its front end, and retains 60% of its original weight, we say that the said bullet has failed. When the Partition does this, as they advertise it, we say it performed well.
I have never had any of my hunters lose an animal because of a Nosler, whether Partition or Accubond, so that speaks for itself. Its more the mechanics and the product promotion side of things that are creating questions.
Maybe someone can enlighten me.
 

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The choice isn't Mono v Bonded. It's Mono v Adequate Jacket. The mono metal doesn't have an actual jacket but imitates jacket performance by having splits running through the bullet to allow for expansion. copper/gilding metal jackets with lead/alloy cores are designed to expand at various velocity & impact resistance levels. Bonding of the lead to the jacket helps the bullet hold together while it is in the deforming process, but it can only do so if the jacket is sufficiently stout. The Accubonds that I have seen appear to expand more readily than the other bullets mentioned such as the A-Frame. For the use intended, the Accubond may work well in a 7mag but I'd also give the Swift Scirocco, Woodleigh and North Fork a try.
 

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The entire mechanics of the Partition has always interested me, and between that and the Accubond, I have always leaned towards the latter when asked by hunters which one I preferred.

What I find difficult to comprehend, is that if any other bullet loses its front end, and retains 60% of its original weight, we say that the said bullet has failed. When the Partition does this, as they advertise it, we say it performed well.
I have never had any of my hunters lose an animal because of a Nosler, whether Partition or Accubond, so that speaks for itself. Its more the mechanics and the product promotion side of things that are creating questions.
Maybe someone can enlighten me.
Marius I shall attempt to "enlighten" you. The way I have always seen it is if the animal dies a fast death the bullet and hunter have done the job regardless of what happens to the bullet upon entry. In the UK a hunter after meat will favour a BT bullet such as a Remington accutip due to the violent fragmentation and plant a shot in the neck of the animal. Am I a fan of this?? No. I tried it once and it didn't go how I wanted it to so I just stick to heart and lung shots.
I use Accubond LR in my 7x64 which is my go to hunting rifle. So far everything I have hit with it has died first shot. As with my 375 H&H for which I use SGK 250grn. I have had cup and core separation on that but guess what?? It formed two wound channels and the animal died with you guessed it!! One shot.

I think the biggest lesson I have learnt in my 10 or so years of hunting now is shot placement is EVERYTHING. If I am not happy with the shot I wont take it. It is me as the hunter that is responsible for the swift death of the animal and if I cant deliver that I will leave it a few moments or adjust my position. 9/10 I will have some fresh venison for when I get home. I hope that helps its just the way I see it
 
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PHOENIX PHIL

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It could be that I suck at searching for stuff using google, but I do know we have some outstanding ballisticians on the group, so I would like to put it to you guys:

A mate of mine has a 7mm rem mag that's currently loaded with 160gr accubonds. The formula works great as is, but I noticed penetration wasn't too impressive.

If you wanted to maximize penetration and the ability to deal with large bone, what would you choose to go with?

I'm thinking on the lines of barnes TTSX vs Swift A Frame vs Federal Trophy Bonded etc

Scenarios just for examples:

1) Non-ideal angles (quartering shots and texas heart shorts on fleeing, wounded game) on big game
2) Hitting large bones (Humerus, top of the radius or scapular) of big game

When I say big game, I mean eland/kudu and the US equivalent (moose/elk)

Interested to hear what you guys have to say!

I think any of the three bullets you're considering will get the job done. I've personally hunted with the TSX and North Fork bonded cores. I have also witnessed the results of @AZ KJ of 160gr 7mm bullets out of his 7mmMag. For me the traditional lead bullets but bonded are the most reliable and give outstanding performance.

The TSX/TTSX as noted by @Red Leg have at times failed to perform as expected in that they haven't opened up properly. But this seems to be an overall low rate of occurrence. That said, they do have a habit of becoming inaccurate once a barrel becomes fouled enough with copper. I've proven this to myself in a few rifles. So between the occasional failure to perform as expected and this loss of accuracy I don't use them. But I won't argue with their overall success. It's just that I have other choices that relieve me of these issues.

For me on an expensive trip to Africa, it just makes little sense to try and save a few bucks on less expensive bullets. It makes total sense to me to spend a few extra bucks on a bullet that is designed for maximum reliability and performance. Shot placement is of course always important, but it's not everything. Once that bullet makes contact with the animal, the design and construction of that bullet takes over. Nothing else matters at that point. Mistakes happen and if your bullet placement isn't perfect, the more reliable better performing bullet may result in needing a second shot for sure, but in a wound that cripples the animal enough to even allow you to make a follow up.
 

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What limits penetration (in a bullet that stays intact upon impact)? It is resistance to forward motion - such as caused by a massively expanding bullet.
So a bullet that expands less will penetrate deeper, all else being equal. Hence the suggestion about monos, which I agree with - similarly the premium bonded bullets, which all happen to mushroom less than say a SGK in the same weight class.

Instead of just looking at tougher bullets, think about impact speed and momentum - the 7mm RM will be pushing that 160gr at a decent velocity, with resultant meat loss from bone shards etc. plus the big mushroom from an expanding bullet impacting at high velocity.
What about simply trying a heavier bullet which will naturally bring the speed down a touch - a 175gr Partition (or any other premium 175gr bullet) might give the additional penetration you seek.
 

Alexandro Faria

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I think you make a fair point. I see GS make a 188gr mono (according to their website) that really appeals to me, but getting hold of them here in SA is next to impossible.

I know, too, that Stewart make a nice 190gr bonded projectile in 7mm. This was more theoretical than anything else- wanted to see what everyone had to say on the matter.
 

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I think you make a fair point. I see GS make a 188gr mono (according to their website) that really appeals to me, but getting hold of them here in SA is next to impossible.

I know, too, that Stewart make a nice 190gr bonded projectile in 7mm. This was more theoretical than anything else- wanted to see what everyone had to say on the matter.

I speak under correction, but think GS Custom is out of business.
 

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I think you make a fair point. I see GS make a 188gr mono (according to their website) that really appeals to me, but getting hold of them here in SA is next to impossible.

I know, too, that Stewart make a nice 190gr bonded projectile in 7mm. This was more theoretical than anything else- wanted to see what everyone had to say on the matter.
check your twist rate for such bullets.
bruce.
 

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From the bullets listed and scenarios listed with a 7mm. I would pick the TTSX.
In the 7mm Remington l would also consider the 168 LRX. Have tested this bullet in 7mm Weatherby.

IMG_1031.JPG
 
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I'm a big fan of the Trophy Bonded Bear Claw (TBBC) or the Trophy Bonded Tipped (TBT) they both work great in my 30-06 and 300 WM. If your looking for better penetration on big game you may want to change your caliber and not your bullet. My brother used a 225 grain accubond out of his 35 Whelen in Africa and had complete pass thru on everything he shot including his Kudu.
@Art Lambart II
I to had the same with my Whelen and 225 accubonds even on a black wildebeest quatrtering at 180 yards. Complete pass thru with a golf ball size exit hole.
I would use Swifts Aframe if I could find them and afford them
Bob
 

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