Flights from Canada to South Africa with Firearms

[MarkB]

Hello everyone,

Just a Dude in BC and I are in the process of booking a hunt in Limpopo, South Africa with Dave Freeburn for August 2024. Looking for experience from the maple syrup swilling crowd for best flights and routes for flying from Canada, specifically western Canada, to Johannesburg with firearms.

Looking at taking two rifles and reloaded ammo for each of us.

1. What airlines did you fly with and what were your experiences, who do you recommend and who would you avoid like the plague;
2. How far ahead did you book your flights;
3. Did you use a travel agent;
4. What specific paperwork was required for the firearms;
5. Did anyone have firearms refused at any stage (airports)?

Appreciate any advice you can give.

Nice to see a fellow BCer taking the plunge. I am a DYI guy, book my own flights, prepare my own import and Canadian export gun permits. If you feel cap[able and have the time its very easy, if you have doubt pay someone. My last safari was 2021 for 21 days in SA, first SA all rest have been Zim or Namibia

To answer your questions,

1-I flew Campbell River to Van then to Toronto, stayed a week with family then took Ethiopian Air TO to Addis then to Joberg. Flights were by far the least expensive, no gun baggage fees with Ethiopian and it was easy, organised, TONs of plane food, we go cattle class but that was "normal" we were delayed 14 hrs out of TO, then missed connection in Addis but Ethiopian went above and beyond to look after us in Addis, free hotel, free food, even free express entry Visas to Ethiopia, played tourist for a day.
2. When you have your deposit paid and confirmed dates start watching the sites, there are "sales" but you need to be on the ball as they usually sell out fast. I do not think you can pay till 6 months prior, not sure about that but 6-10 months before departure is "normal" for me.
3. No booking agent, booked our own, still fairly easy if you have the time, due to Covid and SA rules we were on, off, on off for trip so many flights booked, delayed, Ethiopian was good with this, no fees incurred. Things are somewhat normal now so I think straight forward today. Guns are checked straight thru if flights coincide, you will do the basement walk in Addis, (lots on here about that) its still very simple.
4, Gun paperwork is also simple, Serge in Ottawa is an awesome help for exit permits, SA SAPs paperwork is online with a tutorial for even a monkey. Fill in the blanks, verify twice, copy for times and do NOT sign until in SAPs SA, take a few black pens for the police. In 5 trips never had an issue. If you want maybe an hr faster service pay the company the $400 to expedite you. (Not me that's an extra impala.) Each airline has their own gun rules, you need to read, learn, understand and complete, Ethiopian is a page document you fill out before flight, you must inform them ahead of time you are travelling with guns. Its not difficult.
5. Never had anyone at any airport refuse guns, but I have always had my docs perfect. Was delayed 3 weeks in Zim for strike, guns in room, then SAPs held free for another 10 days is SA, SAPS held my guns in 2021 for 20 days as we tested positive for the Vid and locked down at a hotel. NO issues ever. Be polite, calm and respectful and all are same to me. You must realize its Africa (same in most countries) and things do not work like Canada, well before now. We are as screwed as they are lately.

Lastly, this site is AMAZING, I recently saved $600 on my import due to a member on here and returned the favour by saving another member a large dollar amount on his import. I also clear my own shipments, took 10 mins at YVR 2 weeks ago. NO IMPORTER. I will do an after action report on here later.

Its still BC hunting season so only home for today, then back in to tent camp for another 2 weeks. I will send you a DM/PM with my contact and we can talk on phone when I return if you want. Just seen your in Vic, that's close enough for a trip also if interested and ever near Campbell River.

MB

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Nice to see a fellow BCer taking the plunge. I am a DYI guy, book my own flights, prepare my own import and Canadian export gun permits. If you feel cap[able and have the time its very easy, if you have doubt pay someone. My last safari was 2021 for 21 days in SA, first SA all rest have been Zim or Namibia

To answer your questions,

1-I flew Campbell River to Van then to Toronto, stayed a week with family then took Ethiopian Air TO to Addis then to Joberg. Flights were by far the least expensive, no gun baggage fees with Ethiopian and it was easy, organised, TONs of plane food, we go cattle class but that was "normal" we were delayed 14 hrs out of TO, then missed connection in Addis but Ethiopian went above and beyond to look after us in Addis, free hotel, free food, even free express entry Visas to Ethiopia, played tourist for a day.
2. When you have your deposit paid and confirmed dates start watching the sites, there are "sales" but you need to be on the ball as they usually sell out fast. I do not think you can pay till 6 months prior, not sure about that but 6-10 months before departure is "normal" for me.
3. No booking agent, booked our own, still fairly easy if you have the time, due to Covid and SA rules we were on, off, on off for trip so many flights booked, delayed, Ethiopian was good with this, no fees incurred. Things are somewhat normal now so I think straight forward today. Guns are checked straight thru if flights coincide, you will do the basement walk in Addis, (lots on here about that) its still very simple.
4, Gun paperwork is also simple, Serge in Ottawa is an awesome help for exit permits, SA SAPs paperwork is online with a tutorial for even a monkey. Fill in the blanks, verify twice, copy for times and do NOT sign until in SAPs SA, take a few black pens for the police. In 5 trips never had an issue. If you want maybe an hr faster service pay the company the $400 to expedite you. (Not me that's an extra impala.) Each airline has their own gun rules, you need to read, learn, understand and complete, Ethiopian is a page document you fill out before flight, you must inform them ahead of time you are travelling with guns. Its not difficult.
5. Never had anyone at any airport refuse guns, but I have always had my docs perfect. Was delayed 3 weeks in Zim for strike, guns in room, then SAPs held free for another 10 days is SA, SAPS held my guns in 2021 for 20 days as we tested positive for the Vid and locked down at a hotel. NO issues ever. Be polite, calm and respectful and all are same to me. You must realize its Africa (same in most countries) and things do not work like Canada, well before now. We are as screwed as they are lately.

Lastly, this site is AMAZING, I recently saved $600 on my import due to a member on here and returned the favour by saving another member a large dollar amount on his import. I also clear my own shipments, took 10 mins at YVR 2 weeks ago. NO IMPORTER. I will do an after action report on here later.

Its still BC hunting season so only home for today, then back in to tent camp for another 2 weeks. I will send you a DM/PM with my contact and we can talk on phone when I return if you want. Just seen your in Vic, that's close enough for a trip also if interested and ever near Campbell River.

MB

I'd be interested to see if Ethiopian connection might save some time. I don't mind the long layovers in Frankfurt or Zurich but I'd like to find something a bit quicker. I don't want an overnight in Joberg!

 

[BC Tal]

I'm overwhelmed with the responses! I've read all, but need to sit down and process it all and take notes.
Thanks everyone!

 

[MarkB]

I'd be interested to see if Ethiopian connection might save some time. I don't mind the long layovers in Frankfurt or Zurich but I'd like to find something a bit quicker. I don't want an overnight in Joberg!

I always book to arrive a few days early, 2-7 days normally, plus 2 weeks after safari to play "traveling tourist". Early arrival gives me time to "climatize" to Africa time, smell, immerse, taste and be Africa before safari and most important lets my guns, luggage catch up if "misplaced" by airlines. When we flew, Ethiopian had 2 layover choices in Addis for over and return flights, 2 or 8 hrs if I remember correct, I always take the long layover and go see the town, but others choose the 2 so they are in Joberg early enough for outfitter to meet at airport. Not sure if its all still same today.

I'm overwhelmed with the responses! I've read all, but need to sit down and process it all and take notes.
Thanks everyone!

True, Safari is overwhelming for a first time, remember after your first the DESIRE, NEED, WANT anyway possible for a return is much stronger. Prepare for this, as it happens before you leave from the safari you are on.

I am a spreadsheet guy, helps me with notes, data and comparing all items, points, desires and info. Then a checklist works. This site is a wealth of info and from boots on the ground people who have done it. Not normally internet writers.

MB

 

[BC Tal]

We've started a list of lists

 

[BC Tal]

Flights are booked and paid!
Just a Dude in BC and I ended up going with Travel Express Agency and so far we are pleased we did so. The advice was good and the price seems reasonable.
We're flying Victoria - Vancouver - Atlanta -Joburg with Westjet and Delta and Joburg - Atlanta - Calgary - Victoria on the return.
We've been advised that both Westjet and Delta are firearms friendly and our firearms will be checked all the way through, which is one less worry.
This flight represents the best intersection of price, schedule, including overall flight time and adequate time for transfers, and ease with firearms.
August is getting closer and we can't wait!

 

[MarkB]

I think you should confirm that guns will be checked thru, never have been when I went thru US and I do not read that rules changed? Huge issues with US, we had to get all luggage and guns after entering first US airport, complete paperwork, then fly to Atlanta then do whole process again in Atlanta prior to leaving US, same BS on return if its thru US. Delta also left my guns in Joberg and then could not find for 6 months, I found them myself., SAPs gave me details and Atlanta Cargo had them, not passenger dept. I do not trust Delta but they did tell me to keep the $3500 they paid me. That was the reason last have been Ethiopian, Toronto - Addis -Joberg. Was far cheaper and absolutely no gun fees. Checks in Addis are on many threads here and a simple thing.

West Jet has a gun carrying fee, look on their site its all listed. Weapons are sporting goods and have fees. That's each time you fly West Jet, there and return. Unless you are a Vet then all baggage up to 400 lbs each way is free. You must also inform them ahead of time and allow extra time at check in for unloaded and paperwork verification.

You will also need to register guns, scopes, magazines and all ammo with Canadian External Affairs (I think that's the correct agency), there is a list on here from @BRICKBURN with excellent details, contacts and numbers, I believe Surge still holds the position in Ottawa and is awesome at helping, did in 2021 my last trip. Make sure you have a CBSA Officer check, verify all pieces listed and sign the form upon arrival back in Canada or you will receive threats and follow ups from Gov agency. Also when sending in your signed documents ensure they enter it in Canadian system or same threatening emails will arrive, don't ask how I know that.

If you have any questions PM/DM me on here, I am just up the road.

MB

 

[TRAVEL EXPRESS]

@MarkB sorry to hear about all the trouble you had! The questions that pop into my head... Was it one ticket start to finish? Was it airlines that check guns through/ have baggage agreements? Were all airlines notified in advance and confirmation received? Was it confirmed that weapons were transferred at each point airlines changed? Those are very common issues.

The Canadian weapons permitting is a whole other issue. But assuming that is in order, and SAPS permits are in order, there shouldn't be a problem. Although, sometimes **** hits the fan without any reason, and airlines can and will change their policies without reason or notice. We like to leave extra time during certain layovers for that very reason. Better safe than sorry!

Our contact at ATF confirms a permit is not required for Canadians transiting the USA with a final destination outside the USA. The CBP website also supports this - and hope this helps!!

CBP Customer Service

"Generally, if a non-citizen is transiting to the United States with a firearm, the non-citizen is not required to have an ATF Form 6NIA or a DSP-61 temporary import license issued by the State Department.

The non-citizen must be in physical possession of a firearm that must be otherwise lawful to possess, and an non-citizen admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa will need to meet one of the exceptions pursuant to 18 U.S.C. § 922. For example, if an non-citizen will be driving through the United States as a short cut to get from one part of Canada to another and have a firearm, the non-citizen does not need to file an ATF Form 6NIA because the non-citizen is not temporarily bringing the firearm in for hunting or other lawful sporting purposes."

 

[MarkB]

Hello

I am not starting any issues and not absolutely sure of todays process's with transiting US with firearms but from safari 5 yrs ago when I went the US route it was lots of extra time, and BS. I am no expert just a Canadian safari goer who does all his own travel, permits and paperwork.

If a Canadian takes his firearm, scope or ammo out of country without engaging and completing with signature the Gov paperwork they are committing an offence. Canadian Gov rules for Canadians leaving and returning with firearms. This temporary export paperwork is a MUST show at SAPs US and Ethiopian customs personnel. Its equal to your 4457 document, however ours is held in Gov and must be "cleared" upon return.

Your questions in first para were all a yes, those rules applied on trip they are also adhered to with most other countries. The US is the ONLY country where luggage was collected and not sent straight thru. Hence most Canadian I know now go to Africa thru other routes. Not sure if this is still process but I think yes as a friend was recently complaining about the BS. This was not a gun specific issue but a customs declaration form. The route you booked to Joberg was less costly than Ethiopian out of Toronto even after Westjet gun baggage fees are added? Maybe US route a little less air time was more important for OP.

West Jet does have a firearm luggage handling fee for every flight, Unless your a Veteran. Its on their website under baggage rules. $100 each portion I think. I am a vet so just print the form and get luggage free, however I try my hardest not to fly with either of the worst in NA rated airlines.

History has proven to me that Canadian travel agents were silent and not capable of doing anything I was not when trips/travel went south. In 05 SA strike left us abandoned in Zim for 12 days, then another 8 in SA our Canadian travel agent??? Crickets, noting they could do, I organized our return by shear luck. In 2021 Covid positive tests, 14 days lockdown hotel and new flight requirement = Canadian travel agent????? Again nothing they could do we could not. Those were the only 2 times I used travel agents and only times issues arose. I have never used your business, I do read and see all the positive reviews from your customers but have no personal opinion. US has more safari goes in a week than Canada yearly I guess so you have lots more chances and experience than our companies.

My aim is to have a fellow Canadian and BC member have the easiest, least stressful trip over for his safari. Passing on what I learned is part of that and an awesome portion of this site.

MB

 

[TRAVEL EXPRESS]

Hi @MarkB your insight and experience are greatly appreciated. As a seasoned traveler who handles your own bookings, I'm certain you've put in many hours of research, and most of all.... dreaded paperwork!

We do specialize in travel for hunters, so in turn we handle bookings with weapons on a daily basis. Although we do book far more US than Canadian (or other!) clients, the process is similar. We always weigh the pros and cons of each schedule as we go through the booking process, to help a traveler decide what is best for them.

You're absolutely right the AH forum is place to come together and share all things hunting related. So thank you for sharing!

 

[Doubleplay]

I'd be interested to see if Ethiopian connection might save some time. I don't mind the long layovers in Frankfurt or Zurich but I'd like to find something a bit quicker. I don't want an overnight in Joberg!

Try Turkish Air out of Toronto.
They are very good at handling guns and part of Star Alliance.