Discussion in '.375 & Up' started by Wolverine67, May 23, 2012.
No offense taken, just having fun and good, lively discussion.
I'd have happily had a h&h if a good value stainless synthetic was available, ideally with a short barrel. But it wasn't. The short barrel performance is a bonus.
I recently had some difficulties mounting a scope on my CZ550 .375 HH. I initially bought a Leupold VX5 2-10 illuminated reticle scope for this gun and used Wayne rings to mount it. The problem was the short space for the front ring on the scope mated to the lonnng action of the .375HH. There was NO room for adjustment, and the eye relief was too great for quick target acquisition. I ended up buying a VX5 1-5 with a straight front tube which solved most of those issues by allowing a more rear-ward scope position. If the gun had been chambered for the .375 Ruger with its standard length action there would have been a bit more mounting flexability.
I have to agree that you probably would've been happier with the Ruger.
There are several solutions and follow up to this common problem.
First, the Ruger Hawkeye has a rear-extended front ring that can be purchased (or traded with Ruger) that will allow the mounting of very short scopes. CZ also has a short base single-piece mounting option, though these must be ordered from the Czech Republic for about triple the cost of a Ruger ring(s).
Secondly, a scope with a long eye-relief is very desirable for a DG rifle. While I have used scopes with only 3.8" eye-relief on heavy recoiling rifles (6000 foot-pounds muzzle energy), I now prefer and recommend scopes with 5" eye-relief. Nikon Inline and Slughunter offer 5" eye-relief, great glass, and are extremely rugged for handling recoil (maybe the best, or equal to any out there). However, although the Nikon Inline and Slughunter glass is very bright, it does not come with an illuminated reticle. The hunter must decide if that is a deal-breaker, or not. When checking the eye-relief it is important to see what is listed at the high-power, not the low power setting.
As for caliber, I would recommend deciding on the weight and size of a rifle that one wants to carry. Some hunters want a heavy rifle for comfortable recoil and perhaps a faster time for a follow-up shot. Other hunters want a lighter rifle for carrying throughout a day, perhaps resulting in a more comfortable hunt and a less-tired first shot when it arrives. So if hour-after-hour carry is a primary concern, then a smaller package like the Ruger Hawkeye in 375Ruger or 416 Ruger is the way to go. If a heavier rifle is desired, then a long-magnum-action 375H&H is the natural choice. Ballistically, while the 375Ruger has a tad more capacity that might theoretically produce a 25fps increase, or 50fps tops, the Ruger and H&H are equal for any hunting application.
You have obviously thought this through, and make some excellent observations.
There are several other companies that offer rings the extend to the rear of the rifle, but not many are readily available in Canada. Shipping gun related products across the border is an issue. I acquired the rifle through some trading, it was good for both parties and the timing was perfect. I tried contacting CZ and did not get a response that was useful. I do like the gun, good trigger, well balanced etc. and it has great wood for a 'stock' gun. It is heavy though. Scope and gun empty weigh 11 pounds. I may have a recoil reducing device put in the stock. I need a shoulder replacement in my right shoulder and after six rounds at the range I'm reaching for the Ibuprofen.
Not much of a guess: you voted for Trump didn't you?
Yes, my wife and I have worked through this in detail because we needed to make a personal decision.
She wanted a rifle for Tanzania, having a 270 for US hunting. She looked at the 338WM, 9.3x62, and 375(s). Because of legalities, the 375 won out even though she doesn't plan on chasing buffalo at the moment. She is fairly light in weight, medium height, so the 20" Ruger Alaskan with a shortened stock appealed to her. It is 9.0-9.5 pounds with a scope and comes in a 375 Ruger caliber. She has both 200grain GSC and 250TTSX loads available at 3100fps and 2815fps, respectively. It is a compact package that fits her better than a big lumbering CZ.
PS: she has a Nikon Inline scope with 5" eye-relief because it's a great scope and we both like her eyebrows just the way they are!
Here she is, a split-second after firing her 375. Note the large gap between the scope and her forehead.
As for the gun, here is a great load with a 100 yard target
That is some awesome eye relief! Great shooting as well not mention great shooter. Those 250TTSX would be a good option for Plains Game I bet...
The GS Customs are a good choice also up to and includeing Cape Buffalo.
the only problem with gs customs is, ...they don't have a cannelure and will move in the case. how would i know this one might ask?
I’ll ask because I have no trouble with movement in my situation.
I shoot a 450gn GSC in a 500 at 2600fps. You can put a little crimp into the driving bands.
Maybe this doesn't work on smaller caliber, but then again smaller caliber tend to be held in place by the extra neck tension. Of course, I ordered the Lee replacement pins that are .001" undersized to guarantee good neck tension, though I don't seem to need such on larger caliber (>.375") where I crimp.
the problem i had with em, was in a 375 ruger. there is no cannelure, and i seated them deeper than the driving bands.
the recoil, bumped the bullets in the box to the front and ended up driving them deeper into the case.
a cannelure would help. 416 probably has the right idea, make the expander ball just a bit smaller for more neck tension. they were tough to get ahold of, so i ended up switching to north fork bullets.
I never had that problem maybe my expander is small or yours was larger they would have a tolerance.
I was looking at the rounds I loaded this weekend and they actually have little ridges and valleys where the brass sinks in between the drive bands. I wonder if your expander is a shade to big?
I went through a similar dilemma, made my decision and now I am living with the decision I made.
Debated on the 300WM (long action) vs 300 WSM (short action) and chose the 300WSM. I believe I made a poor decision and I will give my reasons.
Short action, fat case with the same bullet diameter doesn't feed as smooth. Advantage long action
WSM suffers from not enough powder space for heavier (200gr+) bullets due to the length restriction. Advantage long action
WM ammo is easier and cheaper to find. You see where this is going.
Only disadvantage I can find is the longer throw of the long action.
Although not the same caliber as you are debating, if you were a friend of mine I would ask you the above questions.
I still look at that WSM and wish I had went with the WM. The rifle shoots great and I love it, but it's not EXACTLY what I wanted. I should have known better. Hope you make the best decision for you.
Eric, thank you for that honest glimpse into what many of us go through when choosing a rifle or caliber.
My wife and I looked at a lot of options before she choose a 375Ruger for Tanzania. The chief front runners were another 338WinMag in lefty, a 9.3x62 (Tikka?) and the 375 Ruger. But another close runner up was the 338 Ruger Compact Magnum in a 20" barrel (very attractive in a small package) and also the idea of just bringing over her US-parked 270 for a new home. All of the options have advantages, but some have a few extra advantages, or a few less drawbacks. What tipped the scales? The 338's and 9.3 are not fully legal in Tanzania for buffalo. (Game scouts will usually let local hunters shoot whichever rifle they wish, but a 375 or larger is necessary for having the buffalo license written.)
I can appreciate both the 300WSM and the 300WM and I think that the 300WM would fit Africa better, for the reasons that you mention. However, when one compares the Ruger and the H&H, the same relationships between the WSM and WM do not completely transfer to the .375"s.
The Ruger is already long enough in a 'standard' action to feed smoothly. No significant advantage 375Ruger//H&H.
The Ruger typically comes in lighter rifles, advantage Ruger in the field, though one may grant the H&H an advantage on the bench, if heavier. My wife is happy with the smaller package of a 20" barrel in an Alaskan Hawkeye and never dreams of lifting one of our 416Rigbys in a heavier, CZ package (similar size/weight to the CZ in 375H&H).
The Ruger has a little extra case capacity, advantage Ruger. But for truth and full disclosure, it must also be admitted that a 3.4" magazine length does put a little restriction on long-seating some of the newer, heavy, long-range, boutique bullets. A Ruger chambering in a long H&H action would be the ultimate in flexibility, but Africa does not need bullets for 400-800 yards. My wife prefers the bullets on the lighter side, which also fits her 110-pound, more-delicate grandmother frame.
416Tarzan - You are correct, we torture ourselves sometimes in choosing a rifle or caliber. In the end, you have to make the best decision you can, with the information you have at the time. It sounds like you are doing just that. Happy shooting to both of you.
First let me say that I am no gun expert, with that being said if it ain't broke don't fix it. The 375 H &H has gotten the job done for over a hundred years. I have seen a lot of variations of calibers come and go. In my opinion why not use what has been proven over so many years. This may not be the exciting way to look at it, but I had a football coach that once said if you always do what you have always done you will always get what you have always got. Not proper English, but always made sense to me. The 375 H&H has always gotten the job done, so why wouldn't it always get it done. Why mess with a proven winner. Yes I personally shot a 375 H&H, it is my absolute favorite gun.
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