.318 Westley Richards

sestoppelman

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I certainly agree in the similarities of the WR and .338-06 and similar rounds, nearly identical in performance. However I would note that 250 grs is not a heavy weight in the .338 caliber. For years Speer made a 275 gr and I believe at least one maker still does, Swift I think. Plus Sierra makes a 300 gr match bullet. In fact Winchester used to load a 300 gr slug as well for the Win mag. But not to pick the nit, LOL!:rolleyes::D:D:D
 

rookhawk

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Some years ago I looked at a lovely Westley Richards double in .318....one of their gold name models...it looked like new on the outside and came in its oak and leather case, but alas.....both barrels were completely shot out...!

I have never seen such worn barrels in a double, sooner or later..

Reviving an old thread as I was just reviewing it. What @Pondoro witnessed were near perfect bores, not completely shot out bores. Wish I could have bought the rifle real cheap! .318 WR rifles by their namesake had a "hills and valleys" metford style rifling that had no crisp lands or grooves. That's how they were made and are quite accurate I've come to learn.
 

Pondoro

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You may be right Rookhawk....this info is entirely new to me.....I have never heard of WR making doubles with such rifling. Charles Lancasters "oval bore" is rather usual to come by though...

Can you please elaborate, was this rifling unique to .318s only..??

The rifle was made ca. 1905 and cased in its original case.

The owner is a collector of doubles and thus turned me down to by it..
 

rookhawk

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@Pondoro i did some digging when I bought my .318. A friend and avid Westley collector told me don't worry, they all (318 magazine rifles) shoot fine and he never saw a very good bore. I bought mine and took it home for heavy cleaning. After foaming it dozens of times I had very clean rifling and it was obvious to me that it was not worn, it was made this way.

After much digging I found many breadcrumbs on this topic. Most experts call it metford rifling but it was not. Others call it Whitworth rifling and I wager that Westley had a trademark term for it.

In short, it has hills and valleys, not lands and grooves. Mine was from 1910. Unfortunately, it appears most people ruin/rebarrel these guns because they think the barrels are bad without shooting them first. At present there is one for sale as a take down rifle on GI and the owner says it's a collectible only as the bore is badly worn. (But he still wants $8k with a ruined stock!)

If you can find that Double I'd suggest you buy it!
 

rookhawk

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british_riflingB.jpg
 

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rookhawk

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The discussion is in reference to designs similar to #4 above.
 

Rule 303

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The W.E. Metford and the hills & valley rifling discribed sounds and looks similar to the rifling found in Glock pistols, polygon rifling. It works and is accurate. I often wondered if it would work in a rifle, know I know.

sestoppelman, I would venture that a 250 grain pill in a 338 is considered a heavy for calibre, Like a 275grn pill in a 358 is heavy for calibre. Yes I know even heavier bullets are made and I would also consider these as heavy or extremly heavy for calibre. The penetration on those 300grn 338 pills would be fantastic if the jacket is thick enough.
 

rookhawk

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@Rule 303 and @sestoppelman in defense of the .318WR, it is a heavy for caliber loading. A .318WR has a 250gr bullet with a diameter of .330". That would be a heavier for caliber loading than the 250gr .338" bullets you gentlemen are referencing.

I wanted to find the quote I read recently but the internet isn't producing the desired effect. I think it was WDM Bell or Taylor that stated the .318WR with the 250gr solid was the deepest penetrating rifle he had ever used. The reference was its use on a rhino where the bullet went from one end of the animal entirely to the other. Obviously the fact it was a good solid and that it was long for caliber both play into the likely reasons it wasn't prone to deflection, it had great sectional density and ballistic coefficient, etc.

To threadjack, while I was looking for the quote that didn't turn up I found this quote from an article on Westley Richards describing an old African's hunting battery in Kenya: "He was a man who had been around the block a few times with regards to hunting, control work and as an Honorary Game Warden in colonial times. His battery consisted of a very well looked after but battered .318 Westley Richards and a Cogswell and Harrison .375 H and H Magnum." I found the quote somewhat of an affirmation as I've culled my go-to guns for Africa and focused on just a couple remaining, the .375H&H Cogswell & Harrison and my .318WR I'm getting ready for Eland and Leopard use now. Someday I'll add on a vintage .470NE double or a .416Rigby magazine to complete a proper three gun battery for Africa.
 

Rule 303

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Roohawk, I agree. I was in fact saying that a 250 grain bullet in the 318 is a heavy for calibre projectile and I was referencing a 275 grain projectile in the 358 cal.:)

I like your African battery.(y)

On a slight side track Pondoro Taylor considered a 300grain 358 out of a 350 Rigby No.2 (from memory)to be an exceptional perpetrator as well. Yet bell did not like the long heavy 6.5's. He found the bullets would bend on hitting bone, like the back was trying to over take the front. He believed the jackets were to thin.

Nothing wrong with a lot of the old calibres and their loading's, they worked then and still work now.
 

Odinsraven

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Have a 1910 WR in 318 and a double of German origin

However the 17 project is a savage ridle stainless and suppressor in 318wr

Will keep you updated
 

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