Politics

Times have changed.....

Today, America calls Germany an enemy and treats it like an enemy.

Russia calls Germany a friend, and treats it like a friend.


HWL
Are you familiar with the old saying, With friends like that, who needs enemies?
Looking back through history, especially European history, America has made for a very good friend and ally. Contrast this history with Russia's history and contemplate carefully who might be the better friend. Is America without fault? Absolutely NOT! We certainly make our share of foolish decisions and stupid mistakes. But as a strategic partner and ally, I'm pretty sure America has expended more blood and treasure to the benefit of her friends than any other nation on the globe.
 
By wanting to be treated fairly and have partners live up to their agreed upon responsibility?

Interesting that when the US does what is best for itself you consider us an enemy and when Russia does what is best for itself you consider it a friend. All depends which way the money flows, doesn't it?

With no word I said, that Germany considers America as an enemy......

Donald Trump said, that Germany is the enemy of the United States.....

That is a big difference.......


HWL
 
With no word I said, that Germany considers America as an enemy......

Donald Trump said, that Germany is the enemy of the United States.....

That is a big difference.......


HWL

I must have missed the quote, or video. Can you please provide it ? The quote and context?

I stand by my point though, which was many places, Germany included, seem to get annoyed when the gravy train goes away.
 
Are you familiar with the old saying, With friends like that, who needs enemies?
Looking back through history, especially European history, America has made for a very good friend and ally. Contrast this history with Russia's history and contemplate carefully who might be the better friend. Is America without fault? Absolutely NOT! We certainly make our share of foolish decisions and stupid mistakes. But as a strategic partner and ally, I'm pretty sure America has expended more blood and treasure to the benefit of her friends than any other nation on the globe.

What I said in #310 are the facts we are confronted with today.

History is gone,.... Donald Trump sets the standards for the future.....

America does not need friends any more....

The old allys do not even have the chance to stay with America.

What shall they do???

They are forced to look for new alliances....

One day, America will awake and realise, that there are actually no friends anymore.


HWL
 
..... America calls Germany an enemy......and treats it like an enemy!!!

Simply watch your president.

Today, Germany is a well respected country all over the world.

How many real friends America does have any more?


HWL

Great when any of these countries have the latest despot take over, they can call on Germany to defend them.

You seem to have very good command of the English language, but I believe you’re confusing the word dependents with friends.
 
What I said in #310 are the facts we are confronted with today.

History is gone,.... Donald Trump sets the standards for the future.....

America does not need friends any more....

The old allys do not even have the chance to stay with America.

What shall they do???

They are forced to look for new alliances....

One day, America will awake and realise, that there are actually no friends anymore.


HWL

When exactly would you like to have the US military presence come to an end in Germany?
 
Times have changed.....

Today, America calls Germany an enemy and treats it like an enemy.

Russia calls Germany a friend, and treats it like a friend.


HWL


On December 11, 1941, Germany declares war on the United States. Four years later America defeats Germany. America then creates the Marshall Plan to help rebuild Germany. America allows tariffs to go into place that are beneficial to Germany to the determent of America, to help Germany rebuild.

Many other details can be added, but lets advance to the present:

Five members of NATO meet their 2% commitment to the treaty, led by America at 3.61%. Germany does not meet their commitment at 1.19%. This even though NATO benefits Germany from Russian aggression much more than it benefits America. https://www.businessinsider.com/nato-share-breakdown-country-2017-2

The EU, who's defacto leader is Germany has a SAA MFN tariff rate of 5.16%. America has a SAA MFN tariff rate of 3.48%. This means that Germany's effective tariff rate is 48% higher on American made products than America's rate on German products. (click on the map to get the countries SAA MFN tariff #) https://www.wto.org/english/res_e/s...shboards/MAPS&file=Tariff.wcdf&bookmarkState={%22impl%22:%22client%22,%22params%22:{%22langParam%22:%22en%22}}

Germany wants clean energy without using nuclear power, so Germany starts a policy of energiewende. Germany gets rid of it's nuclear power generation and tries to replace it with green energy. Unfortunately, Germany does not have a regular/steady supply of wind or sun to power their electrical grid. What is the answer? Why not buy power/gas from Russia, the country NATO was put in place to defend Germany from. Thus we have Nord Stream 2. What a great idea Germany has. Not paying it's obligation of 2% of GDP into it's self defense and on top of that, buying energy from the country Germany is concerned of regarding defense. The money paid to Russia by Germany for gas will now help strengthen Russia, allowing it to spend more money on it's military. Did you ever wonder the financial/political dealings between Gerhard Schroder, Russia and members of the Bundestag and BMWi? Might be interesting if someone would do an investigation wouldn't it?:D

Yes, it sounds like Russia is a great friend of Germany.

America has never called Germany an enemy since May 8, 1945. (My father happened to be in Nuremberg on that day. I wonder why?)

Trump calls out Germany for not meeting it's NATO commitments. Trump calls out Germany (really the EU) for having tariffs that are not fair or equal. Evidently according to your thought process, this makes America an enemy. If this is the thoughts of all Germans, possibly America really does need to reevaluate who are friends are. With friends like these.......
 
When exactly would you like to have the US military presence come to an end in Germany?

I personally do not want to have this.

But when the Americans consider the Germans as there enemys, they can go tomorrow morning.


HWL
 
What I said in #310 are the facts we are confronted with today.

History is gone,.... Donald Trump sets the standards for the future.....

America does not need friends any more....

The old allys do not even have the chance to stay with America.

What shall they do???

They are forced to look for new alliances....

One day, America will awake and realise, that there are actually no friends anymore.


HWL
Utter nonsense and rubbish!
 
I personally do not want to have this.

But when the Americans consider the Germans as there enemys, they can go tomorrow morning.


HWL

I’ll write my congressman. Curious, what is your age?
 
Do you remember way way back, like a couple of years ago when Germany was being called upon to bail out EU countries like Greece who didn’t/couldn’t pay their bills? And how bent out of shape Germans were because they were being “responsible” and others weren’t? My, how short our memories are... What’s the difference? I mean, except for trillions of dollars of course?
 
I’ll write my congressman. Curious, what is your age?

Please keep me informed.

The russians are gone long since, why to hell the Americans should not?


HWL
 
Please keep me informed.

The russians are gone long since, why to hell the Americans should not?


HWL

I ask myself the same.
 
Didn't see Germany mentioned at all in that article, much less where Trump said Germany was an enemy of The United States.

You do not know, that Germany is part of the EU?

Sorry, but I can not teach you to read also....

HWL
 
Hmm, this thread has rather drifted.

In the interest of reasoned discussion, I'll try and play devil's advocate here and communicate the views of some in Europe (not necessarily my own).

For some, the whole 'Europeans should count America as a friend and respect her accordingly because she protects Europe from Russia' is an interesting one. On the one hand, yes, American involvement with NATO is undoubtedly a foil to Russian interests in Europe, but at what cost does it come? When NATO came about, it was a no brainer. Back then, Russia = communism, and few countries in Europe wanted that, so American assistance was gratefully recieved. Plus, most of Europe was broke. But today? There is still a gulf between Russian policy and culture and that of say France or Germany, but it's now much smaller than it once was.

In that context, the question is really 'Are American and European interests actually any closer aligned than Russian and European ones?'. To many Europeans, the answer isn't actually that clear. There are huge social, political and cultural differences between Europe and America today as well, so Russia, by comparison, doesn't seem that alien. Russia is quite agressive and expansionist, perhaps more so than America is, undoubtedly in Europe, but few people in Europe genuinely believe that there is a threat of Russian annexation of 'major' European powers anyway, so is that an issue? Ukraine, yeah, but nuclear powers or major nations like France or Germany? Harder to believe. As such, the 'need' for NATO is seen as reduced.

At that point, the question arises as to whether the 'cost' of increased American involvement in Europe is worthwhile for that security. For some at least, the real cost here is the cultural dilution. Close links with America have historically meant increased import of American culture, business and ideas. TV, Music, Movies, Products, Brands and most importantly Politics. European nations also get dragged into 'American Wars' such as Iraq etc through NATO or American links that actually, we'd have happily kept out of otherwise. With that backdrop, do these American links actually align with current European societal norms and crucially is this something that Europeans actually want in 2018? Furthermore, would rejection of a lot of these links actually be to Europes benefit, even if at the cost of closer links with Russia? For some, it's hard to say.

Rightly or wrongly, the simple fact is that many Europeans feel that they have very little in common with America and feel little comradeship with her people, politics or policy, so the idea of American meddling, no matter how altruistic, in Europe doesn't always sit well. There isn't an obvious 'enemy at the gates' like there used to be with communism, so the benefit of that aid isn't as clear. This lack of concern is also reflected in the lack of military investment by many NATO members at present. Who are they spending 2% of GDP to protect from, really?
 

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