Woodleigh weldcore

Right Im thinking about getting some woodies for the 416 rigby. But how much truth is there about the impact velocity recommendations?? Also how well do they perform? They must be rather good otherwise Norma wouldn't use them.
@norfolk shooter
I've only used them in my Whelen with the 225gn PPSP. Also have them loaded in 225gn RNSP and 310gn RNSP.
The recommended velocity for the 225s is 1800 - 2,700 fps.
I have pushed them to 2,950fps without issue and hit a big zebra stallion broadside with that projectile still impacting above the recommended impact velocity.
That bullet broke both shoulders and was found under the offside hide.
Retained weight of 175gn so 75%.
So they will take higher velocities.
Bob
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Would those Woodleigh Weldcore's be good for Lion or just avoid them all together?

May be good for lion because their design seems to be more similar to the Lion Load bullets from some companies. That is a question for experienced lion hunters, but I am not one of them.

As far as the bullets from Woodleigh in general are concerned, as I have written somewhere before, anyone who damned Hornady's DGX bullets must also damned Woodleigh's Weldcore bullets. The DGX bullets even seem to have a thicker wall than the Weldcore bullets. What remains important, however, is how all these bullets work in practice with various cartridges on various game. I have never used Weldcore bullets from Woodleigh, but Protected Point bullets for shooting two buffalo. I had no concerns about that, because they seem to be more robust in their design that the Weldcore bullets. On the other hand, the FMJ bullets from Woodleigh have a very thick wall and I have used them without hesitation with various cartridges to shoot buffalo and elephants. Sure, there are more modern concepts when it comes to the design of FMJ bullets.
 
Woodleigh Weldcore 196 gr RNSP shot out of my 8x57 JS into a couple of Blue Wildebeest a few years ago. Both shots were under, but close to 100m. One was a classic side on shot through the shoulder, the other was front on slightly quartering.

Muzzle velocity was about 2550 fps and if I remember correctly both bullets had at least 80% weight retention. I love these bullets in Bushveld and have never had a bad experience with them.


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Can anyone comment on Woodleigh performance in say; 35 Whelen or .375 H and H? I asked the Canadian rep how the PPSN would compare to the A Frame. He said it would expand a bit faster and more dramatically, losing a bit of mass (>20%) but were bonded and would hold together. He liked them for buff.
@Rick Cox
I can 100% assure you that the 225gn PPSP will work wonders, even when started out 250fps faster than recommended velocity.
It's impact velocity that counts and I don't see much pg shot at the muzzle.
Even impacting at max recommend velocity they work well.
The 250gn PPSP accounted for 2 decent size pigs with one shot at around 175yds and went thru both then off into the bush. These were started out at 2,700fps.

Yes I will openly admit the A frame is a better bullet but they are also far more expensive.
Depending on what you are hunting and the range the good old round nose seems to be a much faster killer.

@Rick HOlbert used the Woodleighs 225gn RNSP at 2,520fps in his 358 win over in Namibia recently with great success. Problem was everything was very dead very quickly but he wanted to recover a projectile but was unable to because they all exited even on a big Sable bull.

Feel free to use Woodleigh with COMPLETE CONFIDENCE in your Whelen.

I'm looking forward to trying the big 319s both in RNSP and solid in a penetration test when started 200fos faster than recommended. In the Whelen you can easily break 2,400fps with these big bullets.
Bob
 
Again an example that they do not have the penetration when hitting bone.

If you were using North Fork or Rhino solid shank bullets that bullet would have shattered the shoulder knuckle and penetrated the chest cavity.

To me that is not pretty good performance, especially when you need a bullet to penetrate in order to stop a Cape buffalo.
@IvW
My experience is only with 35 cal Woodleigh PPSP and I can assure you in pg NOT DG ( l have never shot DG) they will smash bone and penetration was straight line.
In my humble opinion and that if my ph we would both be happy to hunt buffalo with the Whelen loaded with 275 gn PPSP or 310 gn PPSP and flat nose solids. I would avot the major bones like the femur with the PPSP and place the bullet behind the front leg. If I needed to smash thru the femur I would use either the flat point steel core solid or the hydrostatic solid.
My PH Said with that sort of shit placement we would have one very dead buffalo.
The object is to get the bullet into the vital heart Lung area for maximum damage not smash bone. Very few projectiles will stand up to that especially in soft points.
Bob
 
Isn't it the impact velocity and not the starting velocity that the website refers to?
@norfolk shooter
Yes it is the impact velocity that's stated in the box NOT muzzle velocity.
Problems may arise when pushed faster and game shot at close range where impact velocity is still higher. This will happen with most cup and core as well as bonded.
I have shot thin skinned game with Woodleigh still impacting just over max recommend and not had an issue.
Talking to Geoff if his projectiles are kept within impact velocity parameters they will work as designed. Problems arise because game doesn't read the play book and say I'll just move back a bit so your bullet will work or hang in I'll get closer so you bullet will expand enough to kill me.
Designing a projectile to work in EVERY scenario is an impossibility.
Bob
 
I absolutely respect IvW experience, and his advice. But, it confuses me somewhat because when you read the Woodleigh reloading manual all of the bullets were tested expensively on buffalo. And I mean what sounds like 100's of buffalos. So, it appears that those impact velocity recommendations are well researched in the field
@Pheroze
The projectiles were extensively tested on over 1,000 buffalo and other game.
They are a direct copy of the old Kynock bullets so they regulate in the old doubles. The difference being they are a far better and bonded bullet now..
Bob
 
Yes I have. They are an excellent bullet and perform well.

I however stick to the Rhino and Dzombo Meplat solids as they are locally available and are cheaper. In both 375 H&H as well as 500 Jeff they always give straight line penetration and you need a lot of luck to recover one.

I had a 570 gr Rhino solid give total penetration on a wounded, White Rhino bull(easy to kill but probably the hardest animal in terms of bullet performance). This was a quartering to shot which hit the bull in front of the right shoulder where it joins the thick stubby neck, the bullet travelled through the bull and exited just in front of the left back leg.

Likewise with elephant, side brain shots and broadside shots all exit.

A rear shot at a elephant that a client had botched his brain shot on was stopped in his tracks with a shot to the spine above the root of the tail. It smashed through the spine into the body cavity. We could not find an exit hole or the bullet.

I have had ultimate satisfaction using them and have had no need to change from these two bullets to the Woodleigh hydros.

One point of caution with monometal solids irrespective of their design. They will exit on broadside and depending on caliber also on quartering shots on Cape buffalo.

I would not recommend them for a client wishing to hunt Cape buffalo as the bullet to use for the initial shot. The only time I would recommend them for Cape buffalo is if you are certain you are hunting a lone dagha bull or following up on a wounded bull that has split off from the group. This is rarely the case. Most Cape buffalo will either be part of a breeding herd or a bachelor group of bulls.

Now if you are using a solid of whatever construction you will not(and should not) be able to take the initial shot with any other buffalo behind the chosen one. This becomes very tricky as there may be buffalo behind the one you are targeting that you cannot see.

The chances of the bullet going on to wound another is just too great and not worth it.

I have seen this happen on more than one occasion. In one instance I had to drop a wounded old cow at 7 yards, that charged us because the client used a solid for his second shot(which he was repeatedly requested and told not to do as we were hunting for a bull in a herd of over 200 buffalo) which hit the bull too far back, exited and hit the cow in the left hip. She charged from very close out of scrub Mopane. Had my shot with a 570 gr Rhino controlled expansion bullet not been true, the PH infront of me would have been in serious trouble, as the cow had locked onto him and he could not turn to the right to take a shot.

Shots through the vital triangle(heart, high heart/lungs) taken with a proper controlled expansion bullet kill much faster than a solid. This is more evident when using them during follow up on wounded Cape buffalo. You will be amazed at how much pounding a wounded Cape Buffalo can take.

My personal point of view when hunting Cape Buffalo is you do not need solids even for follow up. Personally I only use 570 gr Rhino controlled expansion bullets when hunting Cape Buffalo.

The use of solids for backup stem from the time when bullet design was of such a nature that solids where the only option for following up wounded buffalo as the softs could not be relied upon to perform at acute angles etc.

You will often hear people quote that you need solids to shoot through the boss in order to get to the brain on a charging Cape buffalo. This is hogwash! When a buff charges you directly he has his head and nose up and the brain is below the bosses. Trying for a brain shot on a charging buff that is still some distance away is not a good idea as the head bobs up and down too much. A controlled expansion bullet placed centre mass between the two points of the shoulders or even a bit higher is much more effective. The Rhino bullets have more than enough penetration to destroy the vitals(heart or high heart/lungs) or even better shatter the neck vertebrae if the shot is placed slightly higher(very effective when you need to stop a buff).

The only time I would advise or attempt a brain shot at a Cape buffalo is at the last moment when the buff drops his head in order to engage you with his horns. Only options then are between the bosses through the top of the brain or slightly further back through the neck vertebrae. The distance the bullet needs to penetrate to achieve this is measurable in inches and if cannot reach the brain or shatter the vertebrae if placed correctly you are using a non premium grade bullet. Needless to say when it get's this close, you best make that shot count.

This bullet in 500 Jeff has never let me down. Charging buffalo directly or charging somebody else offering quartering or side on shots have all been stopped with one shot each time using this combination.

Another point regarding the use of solids which is often quoted is that you need the deep penetration of the solids in order to have a chance at reaching the vitals from the rear. Personally I never try to reach the vitals from the rear as it is just not a practical thing to try and achieve, especially on a fast departing buff in a herd.

One point that is also always mentioned is that of first shot placement. This is the most important thing to do as a client when hunting. Place the first shot where it is supposed to go. If you are not happy then don't take the shot.

Now if you cannot make the first shot count at a relaxed buffalo(either grazing or chewing cudd) from side on(most initial shots), where on earth are you going to aim at the fast departing buffalo with his bobbing rear end in your direction in order to reach the vitals? Most of these shots are just "as long as there is lead in the air there is hope" affairs!

My advice is rather aim at something vital you can see instead of vitals at the other end of the fast retreating buffalo you cannot see. The three vitals you can see from the rear are the two hip bones/joints and the lower spine above the root of the tail. If you are using a proper controlled expansion bullet and you hit any one of these three, you will anchor the bull as the bullet will shatter the joint or spine. This will allow you to then finish of the buffalo.

A solid placed the same will stop the bull on the spine shot but often depending on design will just punch through the hip joint without shattering it.

Solids are definitely necessary for DG hunting in Africa, but are best used for Elephant, Rhino and Hippo(on land). For Cape Buffalo I prefer premium grade expanding bullets for both client and myself.

Once again this is my opinion and is based on many years of hunting and actually doing what I have mentioned above on more than one occasion with positive results every time.
@IvW
You hit the nail on the head by saying
If you aren't capable of the shot don't take it
Try for a broadside shot in the vital triangle.
If you can't do this wait , the shot will eventually present itself.
My philosophy has always been
If you can't make the first shot count don't take it wether it be a rabbit or elephant. You owe the animals a quick death.
Right calibre, right bullet right placement equals one dead animal.
Bob
 
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@IvW
My experience is only with 35 cal Woodleigh PPSP and I can assure you in pg NOT DG ( l have never shot DG) they will smash bone and penetration was straight line.
In my humble opinion and that if my ph we would both be happy to hunt buffalo with the Whelen loaded with 275 gn PPSP or 310 gn PPSP and flat nose solids. I would avot the major bones like the femur with the PPSP and place the bullet behind the front leg. If I needed to smash thru the femur I would use either the flat point steel core solid or the hydrostatic solid.
My PH Said with that sort of shit placement we would have one very dead buffalo.
The object is to get the bullet into the vital heart Lung area for maximum damage not smash bone. Very few projectiles will stand up to that especially in soft points.

Bob
AfricaHunting Buffalo 1.jpg

In the photo above, to shoot the heart/lung on cape buffalo aren't you suppose to follow the front leg straight up as a guide and shoot within the triangle area? The heart/lungs are behind heavy thick rib bones that the bullet needs to penetrate through first. Regardless of shot placement, bones have to be broken to bring the buffalo down...

That's for a broadside shot but, what if you can't get a broadside shot and it's quartering?
 

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