Discussion in 'Reloading' started by norfolk shooter, Sep 19, 2017.
It does indeed.
Well based on that by the time the billet impacts the animal it would have lost at least 100-150 fps. Unless of course you wanted to take that buffalo for a drink down the bar before you shot him.
The operative word here is distance. I thought that most buffs were shot at close range. IvW's need to stop charges are at very close ranges, I'd suspect sometimes only feet. I don't think there is much redemption for the Woodleigh following this line of reasoning.
I absolutely respect IvW experience, and his advice. But, it confuses me somewhat because when you read the Woodleigh reloading manual all of the bullets were tested expensively on buffalo. And I mean what sounds like 100's of buffalos. So, it appears that those impact velocity recommendations are well researched in the field
Understood. This thread is getting to be like a dog chasing its' tail. Perhaps that is why they show only 2,200 FPS on the box. Sort of a "better if sold by date" on some groceries.
Perhaps the time has come to close the thread? Ive made up my mind
You guys just depressed me as I recently moved away from DGX to Woodliegh .
Glad to hear you think they will be fine in the Nitros. I am running the 480g in my 450NE 31/4". Looking for 2,200fps
Currently at 2,050fps !
That bull is 70mm - taken off sticks at 50m.
Good choice on deciding to move. The Woodleighs will perform much better in your double.
Dont be set on achieving that velocity. By all means work up slowly but rather place emphasis on regulation and grouping, rather stick to that load which gives the best regulation as opposed to speed wanted.
Hardly. A little coaching in deductive reasoning would be fine, though the answer to my question does provide context.
IvW, have you tried Hydros?
Yes I have. They are an excellent bullet and perform well.
I however stick to the Rhino and Dzombo Meplat solids as they are locally available and are cheaper. In both 375 H&H as well as 500 Jeff they always give straight line penetration and you need a lot of luck to recover one.
I had a 570 gr Rhino solid give total penetration on a wounded, White Rhino bull(easy to kill but probably the hardest animal in terms of bullet performance). This was a quartering to shot which hit the bull in front of the right shoulder where it joins the thick stubby neck, the bullet travelled through the bull and exited just in front of the left back leg.
Likewise with elephant, side brain shots and broadside shots all exit.
A rear shot at a elephant that a client had botched his brain shot on was stopped in his tracks with a shot to the spine above the root of the tail. It smashed through the spine into the body cavity. We could not find an exit hole or the bullet.
I have had ultimate satisfaction using them and have had no need to change from these two bullets to the Woodleigh hydros.
One point of caution with monometal solids irrespective of their design. They will exit on broadside and depending on caliber also on quartering shots on Cape buffalo.
I would not recommend them for a client wishing to hunt Cape buffalo as the bullet to use for the initial shot. The only time I would recommend them for Cape buffalo is if you are certain you are hunting a lone dagha bull or following up on a wounded bull that has split off from the group. This is rarely the case. Most Cape buffalo will either be part of a breeding herd or a bachelor group of bulls.
Now if you are using a solid of whatever construction you will not(and should not) be able to take the initial shot with any other buffalo behind the chosen one. This becomes very tricky as there may be buffalo behind the one you are targeting that you cannot see.
The chances of the bullet going on to wound another is just too great and not worth it.
I have seen this happen on more than one occasion. In one instance I had to drop a wounded old cow at 7 yards, that charged us because the client used a solid for his second shot(which he was repeatedly requested and told not to do as we were hunting for a bull in a herd of over 200 buffalo) which hit the bull too far back, exited and hit the cow in the left hip. She charged from very close out of scrub Mopane. Had my shot with a 570 gr Rhino controlled expansion bullet not been true, the PH infront of me would have been in serious trouble, as the cow had locked onto him and he could not turn to the right to take a shot.
Shots through the vital triangle(heart, high heart/lungs) taken with a proper controlled expansion bullet kill much faster than a solid. This is more evident when using them during follow up on wounded Cape buffalo. You will be amazed at how much pounding a wounded Cape Buffalo can take.
My personal point of view when hunting Cape Buffalo is you do not need solids even for follow up. Personally I only use 570 gr Rhino controlled expansion bullets when hunting Cape Buffalo.
The use of solids for backup stem from the time when bullet design was of such a nature that solids where the only option for following up wounded buffalo as the softs could not be relied upon to perform at acute angles etc.
You will often hear people quote that you need solids to shoot through the boss in order to get to the brain on a charging Cape buffalo. This is hogwash! When a buff charges you directly he has his head and nose up and the brain is below the bosses. Trying for a brain shot on a charging buff that is still some distance away is not a good idea as the head bobs up and down too much. A controlled expansion bullet placed centre mass between the two points of the shoulders or even a bit higher is much more effective. The Rhino bullets have more than enough penetration to destroy the vitals(heart or high heart/lungs) or even better shatter the neck vertebrae if the shot is placed slightly higher(very effective when you need to stop a buff).
The only time I would advise or attempt a brain shot at a Cape buffalo is at the last moment when the buff drops his head in order to engage you with his horns. Only options then are between the bosses through the top of the brain or slightly further back through the neck vertebrae. The distance the bullet needs to penetrate to achieve this is measurable in inches and if cannot reach the brain or shatter the vertebrae if placed correctly you are using a non premium grade bullet. Needless to say when it get's this close, you best make that shot count.
This bullet in 500 Jeff has never let me down. Charging buffalo directly or charging somebody else offering quartering or side on shots have all been stopped with one shot each time using this combination.
Another point regarding the use of solids which is often quoted is that you need the deep penetration of the solids in order to have a chance at reaching the vitals from the rear. Personally I never try to reach the vitals from the rear as it is just not a practical thing to try and achieve, especially on a fast departing buff in a herd.
One point that is also always mentioned is that of first shot placement. This is the most important thing to do as a client when hunting. Place the first shot where it is supposed to go. If you are not happy then don't take the shot.
Now if you cannot make the first shot count at a relaxed buffalo(either grazing or chewing cudd) from side on(most initial shots), where on earth are you going to aim at the fast departing buffalo with his bobbing rear end in your direction in order to reach the vitals? Most of these shots are just "as long as there is lead in the air there is hope" affairs!
My advice is rather aim at something vital you can see instead of vitals at the other end of the fast retreating buffalo you cannot see. The three vitals you can see from the rear are the two hip bones/joints and the lower spine above the root of the tail. If you are using a proper controlled expansion bullet and you hit any one of these three, you will anchor the bull as the bullet will shatter the joint or spine. This will allow you to then finish of the buffalo.
A solid placed the same will stop the bull on the spine shot but often depending on design will just punch through the hip joint without shattering it.
Solids are definitely necessary for DG hunting in Africa, but are best used for Elephant, Rhino and Hippo(on land). For Cape Buffalo I prefer premium grade expanding bullets for both client and myself.
Once again this is my opinion and is based on many years of hunting and actually doing what I have mentioned above on more than one occasion with positive results every time.
I am sure they were but tested but was it on Asian water buffalo or Cape Buffalo?
If you look at the recommended velocities most are what the factory specs for those calibers are by other manufacturers exactly. 375 H&H 270 gr (2700 fps) and 300 gr(2550 fps) and
416 Rigby 410 gr 2400 fps.
Actually field tested or just coincidence to match other manufacturers? I don't know but I have had too many issues to regard them.
Irrespective, they work in NE calibers but be careful in bolt action calibers especially when exceeding 2150 fps.
Yes it does but for all practical purposes regard it as muzzle velocity especially for the DG cartridges.
IvW. I wondered same thing about water buffaloes versus cape. Have u experience with north fork cup face solids as I'm awaiting some in 400 gr for 400 HH
I'm also awaiting 500 gr for 470 NE. Thanks for very pointed responses. Cheers jacques
So the two inners running at 2,080fps
The outers at 2,130fps.
All 480g Woodliegh softs, just asking myself if I didnt pull that last shot giving a wider regulation
Guess I will have to redo it! Although I wouldn't be happier with 2,150 than 2,080fps........ will the Buffalo know the difference ?
Try it and ask him.
Cape buffalo are tougher to put down once wounded, they are much more likely to charge once wounded.
Cape buffalo are the real deal.
I have not used the cup point solids yet but the soft point and solids from North Fork bullets are superb and have an impeccable record on all African game. the cup points should perform as designed.
Let us know how they do.
Supposedly the cup point will open and pass through potential is reduced. I plan a penetration test with cups versus mega plate flat solids and softs soon. Thanks for for your experienced opinions. I've come to belief very little of the hype put out by Ammo companies
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