Discussion in 'Hunting Reports Africa' started by Bow hunter, Feb 16, 2017.
Royal never wanted to hunt Zambia anyway!
Some of the people there scare me....
Changed it for you Royal.
Hurt our feelings... we're sensitive folk you know!
I said some @PeteG. You're one of the good ones.
My advanced apology for veering off topic just a bit here.... My comment is not meant to question the validity of the original poster's complaint, but I do see a disturbing trend on these hunting forums where a relatively new member or poster joins the forum for what appears to be the sole purpose of grinding an axe against an outfitter or related service.
In all fairness, this could be a perfectly legitimate complaint provided the poster can fill in all of the holes of the story. I also feel that legitimate complaints against an outfitter are fair game on these forums, and should be brought to light for other prospective clients to review.
However, it just seems peculiarly deliberate to me that almost every complaint that I have read on this or other forums originates from a newer member (often one that joined the same day of the post) whose only contribution to the forum is the said complaint. It has been my experience that if you look down any list of outfitter reports and reviews, even the most reputable outfits with scores of impeccable reviews are bound to have one "oddball" complaint that sticks out like a turd in a punch bowl. And, if you peel back the layers on that isolated complaint, it usually reveals a very different version held by the other party.
I guess my point is that it is not wise or fair to go after every outfit or business with pitch forks and torches until ALL of the facts are revealed....I am proud to see that mentality is the prevailing train of thought by most members here.
I started this post off totally the wrong way, for that I apologize. This all started off when my wife and booked a hunt with Motshwere outfitters when the time came for us to go to South Africa we were so excited. When we arrived we were a little lost because no one was there to pick us. After a few phone calls we were on our way to Werner's place we were welcomed and discussed the plans for the next day. We had a great time hunting our package cost was 9400.00 dollars we decided to add a Sable to our list and a few other things we wanted to do. The cost of everything including dip and pack and shipping was more than 17,000 We had a great time while we were there no complaints.
Fast forward nine months my taxidermist called and told us the our animals had arrived we were very excited to see them, later that day after we got of work we went down to open them up. We were horrified by what we saw every animal except our Bushbuck had worm or worm holes or the horn were burnt so bad that they didn't even look like they were our animals. We emailed Werner and told him what had happened he called us the next day and asked for pictures which we sent to him. He replied back you must throw them away and you and Kim must come and hunt the animals that were ruined for free, that Sandy (the dip and pack) person would be paying for it. We thought everything was going to be alright until we arrived and found out that Werner had not taken care of the problem we were sent of with one of his tracker to keep us occupied for the first 3 days. Werner set up a meeting Sandy and us while was out of town, After some lengthy discussions we agreed to hunt on her father-in laws property with little success the next 3 days we were final able to get some of the animals that we had return for. To make a long story short Werner told us that we may have to go to Zimbabwe to hunt for the Sable but that would cost more money Werner asked us how mush cash did we have I gave him 3,300 that's all we have. We were then told 4 days later that idea wasn't going to work and he would try and find one some place else. A week before we were to leave Werner told us that the only way we were going to get a Sable is if paid 5,000 more when we got home we would have to make arrangements for payment I ended up paying him 4,000 more just to get him to release our animals. I have picture and emails that confirm everything that I'm say. If you choose not to believe me that's fine but this is how we see it and we would love to here from Werner and or Sandy to tell us there side of the story.
Richard, I appreciate you coming back to make some sense of your concern.
The facts and details make complaints believable.
What year did you hunt?
When did your trophies arrive?
Did you ever get the final (replacement) trophies home?
Being left at the airport! I think Phoenix Phil can relate to that one.
Totally sucks and starts things off poorly.
Interesting conversation here. I live in Utah and have had some hard feelings for Werner as well. I booked a hunt at the Utah show and hunted with him in 2014 and have YET to receive my trophies.
There were constant and never ending permit issues for my caracal, baboon and monkey and I didn't want to ship everything else until we had those permits as I had a sneaky feeling I'd never see those trophies if the rest shipped. I just never imagined it would take 2.5 years!
At the Utah show yesterday I ran into Michael- one of werners old PH's, who has broken off. During our chat, Werner walked up and started talking to us.
Initially, I was not very excited. This was my third show since my hunt and seeing him selling the lights out to my fellow UTahans for the last three years, knowing I had never got my trophies, had some serious resentment/ guilt/ confusion built up. (There's more to the story- I had reached out multiple times during the past 2.5 years and other than a short response from Werners wife saying Werner was on a hunt and would respond when he got home, the email messages went un-responded.)
Back to the show- Werner asked how I was doing. I told him I'd be much better if the *%#? Trophies from my hunt in 2014 would come. He was shocked to find out Estelle Nell dip and pack had never shipped my stuff and said he had never received my emails (said their email was rejecting any email from unknown senders or something...?) I told him it had finally got into the country last week and I was finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel and mentioned I just hoped the capes were intact and my horns weren't full of holes.
He said he would guarantee they were good by letting me come hunt any species for free that were damaged from sitting in Africa for the past 2.5 years.
So... ??? Who's to blame? Werner or Estelle nel? I really don't know but thought it was good of Werner to at least take that stand. He did say he was going to make Estelle nel pay for the replacement of anything ruined which sounds a bit shaky if Estelle nel disagrees.
Regardless, we'll see. If anyone is interested in hunting with Werner and wants to hear the end of the saga, I'll know soon, and wouldn't mind sharing it. Shoot me a PM.
Update: this morning Werner called me to follow up on the state of my trophies. They're still at the airport so he said if he hasn't heard from me by march, he'll call me back. I'll admit I'm a bit optimistic!
The two stories and such a similar process going on. Hmmm.
Promising that someone else will pay for your hunt!?
Which airport are your trophies at?
Be careful....this is exactly why the first guy is pissed off.
Hey Brickburn- I'm not sure which airport. I have a guy in cali that forwards them on to a tanner and I haven't bothered pushing anything into my brain other than that!
Emails don't just get rejected! Given that the wife answered your first attempt to question progress it seems reasonable that emails were received. I bet if you had a friend send an email, obviously an unknown source to the outfitter, asking about potential hunt dates a quick response would be on it's way.
This stuff about promising that another person is going to pay for a hunt is exactly where the OP got started and we all know that didn't turn out well.
By the way @50by50 that is a fine looking deer in your avitar !
Hopefully these trophies will be okay so I don't have to worry about it but your comment is noted for sure.
And thanks about the deer. I shot that Muley in Mexico. It took me 3 trips so my wife calls it my $30,000 deer (with a very disgusted look on her face!). now that I have some Africa animals I need to change it over!
My wife and I have been with Werner at Motshwere Safari twice now, once in 2013 and once last year in 2016 when we also took our daughter with us. and both experiences were absolutely fantastic, for a total of almost 6 weeks. From the time they pick you up at the airport to the time your dropped back off to fly home you are treated like family. And So I was more than surprised when I found this complaint last night while I was posting pictures of 3 of our 9 animals that scored high enough to make it in the records with SCI.
I 've been with Werner in his booth at the Salt Lake City Hunting Expo the past two years where I've watched dozens, yes dozens of happy, satisfied clients showing up each of the four days of the Expo to booked their second, third, fourth and even a few fifth trips to go back over and hunt with Motshwere. I even mentioned to Werner this week that his hunts almost sell by themselves not just because of his competitive prices, but because of "word of mouth" from the large number of return clients from not only Utah, but all of our surrounding states and even a couple clients from Texas and New Mexico who return to his booth here in Salt Lake to rebook.
I'm even more surprised about this post, because this weekend at the Expo I personally saw Mr Courville, on five different occasions standing 3 -4 booths away and appeared to be hiding behind the crowd and obviously watching the Motshwere Booth, but not once did he ever approach the booth to talk to Werner, which I though was more than odd.
I'm not sure what happened on Mr Courville's hunt but with the substantially large number of satisfied return clients who are rebooking each year, I'm realizing that it may just be a case of, you just cant make some people happy. Just my 2 cents..
@sbox welcome to the posting side of things here on AH. You will please note that there are two clients in this thread that have shared some similar issues not just the gentleman you reference.
Perhaps the outfitter would care to make his own case here.
Separate names with a comma.