Rifle doesn't like Woodleigh

[Major Khan]

Pheroze , you need to use a different propellant . I would highly recommend :
> Win760
> H1000
> Accurate 2230

 

[bruce moulds]

in all honesty, you probably need another bullet.
while a mid range charge might not be the most accurate, it should be reasonably accurate, as it is with other bullet.
760 is known to be temp sensitive, so given that, if you are looking for the speed potential of that case you will be running hot loads due to its burning rate.
food for thought.
if you can't find a good load with Woodleigh using the current powder, while another powder might shoot better, it won't improve things much.
bruce.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

I have used Woodleigh for all of my hunting, 6.5x55 up to 375 H&H. But, it seems, my 308 Norma is a contrarian and shoots 180grain like a 12 Guage. I have been able to group AFrames under an inch. But, it is a pain to source them.

I want to try and see if I can get woodleigh to work. I have been using H4831 with Winchester LR mag primers.

Which variable should I start with? Seating depth is close to recommended in the loading manual. So I am thinking start with a different powder? Should I try 200 gr bullets? any thoughts on where to start would be appreciated. Interestingly, this is the first time I have had to struggle so much to find a load.

Get someone to work out your load on Quickload. Then, go from there.

 

[Hogpatrol]

OR, instead of spending 39.95 on different powders, one could just buy this book.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1016297313

 

[Pheroze]

I have the Woodleigh Manual, that is where my load data comes from. I am just not feeling the love between this rifle and those bullets, lol. Maybe slower is better with this rifle, and I will drop the loads to the lower end of the scale. I just wanted to be up by 3000 fps and not down by 2850, as that should be the potential of this caliber.

Get someone to work out your load on Quickload. Then, go from there.

I actually have that program too I was trying to keep the velocity up to minimize as much as possible the drop and deflection for our next foray in the hills of RSA

 

[Pheroze]

Accidentally filed before.
H4831 is equivalent to AR2313sc.
Pheroze maybe you should try H1000 or R22.
Woodleigh hydros or weldcore or protected points ???

Protected points.

 

[RayAtkinson]

Your problem is apparently in the inletting of the stock..two bullets together in a small group left and low and three in separate position 3 incher and to the right is a pattern..

Glass bedding would most certainly correct that grouping, why it only takes place with Woodleighs is anyones guess, rifles are and inity unto themselves and bullet configuration and weight can cause different viberations in the barrel might be a good guess...

I have a list of groups Ive shot over the years that indicated what caused certain group configurations, and its helped me in inletting wood stocks and glass bedding composites to make them shoot better, so far its worked pretty good, When you shoot a group number the placements of each shot, and you will note a certain simular pattern..then go from there..Once I note of the pattern, I should know how to inlet, tight, or 3 point, or free float and in that order.

 

[Pheroze]

Your problem is apparently in the inletting of the stock..two bullets together in a small group left and low and three in separate position 3 incher and to the right is a pattern..

Glass bedding would most certainly correct that grouping, why it only takes place with Woodleighs is anyones guess, rifles are and inity unto themselves and bullet configuration and weight can cause different viberations in the barrel might be a good guess...

I have a list of groups Ive shot over the years that indicated what caused certain group configurations, and its helped me in inletting wood stocks and glass bedding composites to make them shoot better, so far its worked pretty good, When you shoot a group number the placements of each shot, and you will note a certain simular pattern..then go from there..Once I note of the pattern, I should know how to inlet, tight, or 3 point, or free float and in that order.

Hi Ray

The rifle is pillar bedded. It shoots A Frame and CEB raptors under an inch at 100. So, i am pretty sure its something I am doing wrong with this bullet.

btw, i think I bought my Brno 375 from you? You had hurt you hand at the time I believe. If so, nice to hear from you again

 

[bruce moulds]

you are either doing something wrong with the bullets, or there is something wrong with the bullets.
good bullets and an ordinary load will shoot not fantastic but ok.
I wondered about double grouping due to bedding too, but then asked, why do the other bullets shoot ok.
when testing loads you really need to work right up to where you find a maximum, so you know where it is in your gun and back of a bit for max safe in your gun.
then test loads from start up to there.
however in this case just drop this bullet and use one that works.
bruce.

 

[Dr Ray]

you are either doing something wrong with the bullets, or there is something wrong with the bullets.
good bullets and an ordinary load will shoot not fantastic but ok.
I wondered about double grouping due to bedding too, but then asked, why do the other bullets shoot ok.
when testing loads you really need to work right up to where you find a maximum, so you know where it is in your gun and back of a bit for max safe in your gun.
then test loads from start up to there.
however in this case just drop this bullet and use one that works.
bruce.

Personally I find it hard to believe that the woodleighs are not shooting well!
I use max leadings and the groups are very good. I guess it’s a case of seating depth, primers. And most importantly the powder. I five AR2209 is probably the best for just about any caliber over 22.
Sold in your country as H4350 I believe.

 

[Pheroze]

Personally I find it hard to believe that the woodleighs are not shooting well!
I use max leadings and the groups are very good. I guess it’s a case of seating depth, primers. And most importantly the powder. I five AR2209 is probably the best for just about any caliber over 22.
Sold in your country as H4350 I believe.

I went back to the basics: I used my Sinclair Seating Depth Guage to get 0.02(ish) off of the lands. Also, started at the bottom of the ladder.

I told the wife I can't sleep, and will not go back to work until I figure this out! She looks concerned...but supportive Off to the range tomorrow...

 

[Dr Ray]

I went back to the basics: I used my Sinclair Seating Depth Guage to get 0.02(ish) off of the lands. Also, started at the bottom of the ladder.

I told the wife I can't sleep, and will not go back to work until I figure this out! She looks concerned...but supportive Off to the range tomorrow...

My experience indicates that it’s probably the powder.

 

[fourfive8]

May be powder ??? or at least charge of powder which in turn changes barrel harmonics. These can be tough to pin down. Sometimes I have to remind myself that a nice circular cluster group that shows no pressure signs and is consistent and is hunt ready and may not be the tightest ever shot could be better than a bug hole load that might occasionally act up or may be temperature sensitive showing signs of high pressure at the worst possible time.

I looked through my load logs and found for that type application (I don't have a 308 Norma but have experience with a 300 WM and an 8 Rem Mag). For best chances.... at the faster end Varget or H4895 and at the mid to slower end maybe H4350, Reloader 19 or even H4831SC. Some of the lowest SDs I've ever recorded with that class of hunting round is with Reloader 19. Unfortunately it is known to be somewhat temperature sensitive. Good luck and never a mistake to chase details for best loads

 

[Dr Ray]

May be powder ??? or at least charge of powder which in turn changes barrel harmonics. These can be tough to pin down. Sometimes I have to remind myself that a nice circular cluster group that shows no pressure signs and is consistent and is hunt ready and may not be the tightest ever shot could be better than a bug hole load that might occasionally act up or may be temperature sensitive showing signs of high pressure at the worst possible time.

I looked through my load logs and found for that type application (I don't have a 308 Norma but have experience with a 300 WM and an 8 Rem Mag). For best chances.... at the faster end Varget or H4895 and at the mid to slower end maybe H4350, Reloader 19 or even H4831SC. Some of the lowest SDs I've ever recorded with that class of hunting round is with Reloader 19. Unfortunately it is known to be somewhat temperature sensitive. Good luck and never a mistake to chase details for best loads

I had that problem with a 243 using Winchester powders. From memory I was using 760 and 785/780 not sure of the last one.
Changed to 4350 and bingo !!
Later changed to Australian AR2209 (Same as 4350)
But I must add that the 243 was super sensitive to powder,, bullet, and primers.
I used 90 grain Speer and decided to use 90 grain Sako. Yikes - flattened primers.

 

[fourfive8]

The other thing that also crossed my mind would be the extremely rare possibly of a batch of bad bullets. I once encountered some Speers that were afflicted to the point of minute of barn door accuracy. The only thing that was likely was a core/jacket separation, flaw or void, likely very small, which could really disrupt balance yet remain nearly undetectable.

 

[fourfive8]

I had that problem with a 243 using Winchester powders. From memory I was using 760 and 785/780 not sure of the last one.
Changed to 4350 and bingo !!
Later changed to Australian AR2209 (Same as 4350)
But I must add that the 243 was super sensitive to powder,, bullet, and primers.
I used 90 grain Speer and decided to use 90 grain Sako. Yikes - flattened primers.

Same here and very similar experience with the 243. I've had two. One was easy to load for and it shot pretty well with most everything. But one was a real bugger! Finally, found the one combination that worked significantly better than all others. 80 grain Berger flat base and IMR 4350.

 

[Ridgewalker]

If you have access to a 200 yard or more range, I’d suggest a ladder test every 1/2 grain bottom to top. That should let you know where the “node” for your rifle is. Be aware it’s possible to have more than 1 node range IME.
Best of luck! These things can be a challenge, but once worked out, it’s a grand feeling of accomplishment.

 

[Pheroze]

The other thing that also crossed my mind would be the extremely rare possibly of a batch of bad bullets. I once encountered some Speers that were afflicted to the point of minute of barn door accuracy. The only thing that was likely was a core/jacket separation, flaw or void, likely very small, which could really disrupt balance yet remain nearly undetectable.

I'll see how it goes tomorrow. If still crappy found a place in QC that sells Scirocco II, which I will try. They do have A-Frames too but are not on the Sift website as a listed vendor, so I am not sure if I can get a regular supply from them.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I was actually thinking of Varget. Ok, I will see if I can start there and move on. Here are some examples....and these were the good ones!

View attachment 352130 View attachment 352131

Uploaded sideways as this site likes to do lol

@Pheroze
Last time I had a problem like that I had a loose screw. Can't remember which one as I checked them all.
Patterned like a shotgun so stripped it down and checked everything. Is the d
Barrel touching the fore end any where.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

On the target board they were perfect little holes. The paper may have gotten a bit crumpled.

Reviewing the loading manual I realize that I started the loads at the mid point (71.5 grains, with 73 gr being max.) Starting load is 67gr. So I should try lowering the load before moving off of it.

@Pheroze
Instead of lowering the charge try going up .most magnums like to be run at full throttle to gine the best. I would work up carefully and see what happens.
Bob.