Religions, Evolution and related Sciences

[Hogpatrol]

I switched churches last year. Now going to the New Unitarian Discount Church. It guarantees me salvation and eternal life for 5% instead of the usual 10%. The food and music are better too. Next update is supposed to be a fog machine. Sister Holy Karen is in charge of that fundraiser. I kicked in $3.40. I'll just take one less round of ammo to Africa next year. We now return you to our regular goat rope exercise.

 

[cash_tx]

I switched churches last year. Now going to the New Unitarian Discount Church. It guarantees me salvation and eternal life for 5% instead of the usual 10%. The food and music are better too. Next update is supposed to be a fog machine. Sister Holy Karen is in charge of that fundraiser. I kicked in $3.40. I'll just take one less round of ammo to Africa next year. We now return you to our regular goat rope exercise.

For years I've joked that there should be a church whose marquee out front reads, "Home of the 9% Tithe".

 

[Red Leg]

Holy deflection Batman! No attempt to answer the question whatsoever.. I didn’t say I’m a better Christian. Please don’t put words in my mouth. I’m honestly asking. So many people have felt the need to take part in the conversation, I’m just curious about the familiarity with the source material. You and Tanks are a lot alike, always attributing beliefs to me that I don’t hold or putting words in my mouth.

We all know people who claim to be something they’re not.. A person can’t just claim to be a Christian and bear no outward evidence of it.

In other words, if this discussion on AH is the most one has interacted with said source material in the last decade or administration then that’s a problem.

Honestly it’s also a challenge to do just what I questioned. Pick up a Bible with an open mind. Step foot in a church on a regular basis and check everything against what the Bible says

Thank you. My point exactly.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Thank you. My point exactly.

I’ll take that as a no

 

[Muskox]

My 3 rules on religion and the world.

1. My take on Religion; God is great

2. My take on the bible: It's not a history book, a science journal or anything beyond a ancient text that gives you some confusing aspects of a roadmap in order to maintain and build a relationship with your creator. Edited poorly by man, translated poorly by more men, executed poorly by man. Which is perfect.

3. My take on Science: See rule 2. The universe can not be properly explained by kings, farmers, fishermen, soldiers, and prostitutes who lived 2000-4500 years ago. The universe is infinite, we are 300 light years away from another known planet we could live on, or could harbor life. That's 300 years of going the speed of light.

In my mind you have a relationship with God. Or you don't, that is up to you. The universe has nothing to do with it.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

My 3 rules on religion and the world.

1. My take on Religion; God is great

2. My take on the bible: It's not a history book, a science journal or anything beyond a ancient text that gives you some confusing aspects of a roadmap in order to maintain and build a relationship with your creator. Edited poorly by man, translated poorly by more men, executed poorly by man. Which is perfect.

3. My take on Science: See rule 2. The universe can not be properly explained by kings, farmers, fishermen, soldiers, and prostitutes who lived 2000-4500 years ago. The universe is infinite, we are 300 light years away from another known planet we could live on, or could harbor life. That's 300 years of going the speed of light.

In my mind you have a relationship with God. Or you don't, that is up to you. The universe has nothing to do with it.

What if you’re wrong?

 

[Muskox]

I am not an Atheist, I am Eastern Orthodox. Mostly I attend Roman Catholic services as we are in communion. We got a Latvian American guy that is our commissioned chaplain priest. He is hard to understand. We got a new Roman Catholic Chaplain who isn't from Africa and you can actually understand him, so we are with them.

Can't really be wrong if you believe, I have the insurance. Paid in full!

I can't professionally work in the sciences and focus on what is written in a 2000-4500 year old text.

 

[coreydb]

My faith is firm. Everything else (to me) is just the daily events and consequences of living; no matter the sources. Petroglyphs are tangible evidence of the unexplainable. Man's logic is only developed within the context of our lives on earth; not the reality or existence of that which is beyond our comprehension.

 

[cash_tx]

I’ll take that as a no.

I won't speak for anyone else, but I read my Bible almost every morning and attend church with my wife almost every Sunday (either in person or the online broadcast) led by a pastor whose theology is very Biblically sound. In short, much like Paul, I am not entirely without Christian pedigree. That and about $3 will get you a decent cup of regular coffee.

Born, raised, and born-again in a fundamentalist Christian home; at 53 years old, I am no longer a strict literalist such as yourself when it comes to the "current" Bible's articulation of several historical events. And in my assessment, that is not what matters; such details are the refrigerator art on the door of fundamental faith in our creator God. But as a former "fundie", I can acknowledge and appreciate your devotion to today's library of 66 manuscripts captured from word-of-mouth oral tradition, selected for you by the Constantine-sponsored Roman Catholics, and edited over centuries by various translators and the Middle Age church along the way. Where we will part ways is in our perspective on whether history shows their inerrant following of the Holy Spirit's leading vs. being subject to the influence of political or personal agendas, cultural and educational paradigms, and/or plain old human error. But again, the minor details don't detract from the main points when taken with reason and wisdom.

In my decades of reading, the Bible is by its own declaration an introductory chapter to a much bigger story that spans all space and eternity. To perceive it as the exclusive and final revelation is a mistake that many people make. There is absolutely no reason to think that God hasn't or won't create a great many things beyond our awareness or comprehension. It would be natural for man's limited mind to read the Bible and reach the conclusion that he was God's apex creation, but the Bible never actually says (or even infers) that such is the case. Even Jesus himself made it pretty clear that it was all about the Father's plans for His creation and not himself (a point that is 180 degrees misunderstood by most modern day folks who label themselves Christian).

PS - I fully anticipate that you will disagree with my viewpoint above; and perhaps use words like apostasy, deceived, heresy, or any of the other well-worn retorts; I will simply ask you to take my word as a gentleman that this position did not come without much research, thought, and prayer.

 

[cash_tx]

What if you’re wrong?

Here comes the "Pascal's Wager" argument..

 

[rookhawk]

Simple, the Bible itself has not been corrupted.

Factually inaccurate assertion that has led to countless deaths. Particularly the drinking of poison and handling venomous snakes bit from verse 18. This is a corruption of scripture, it does not exist in the earliest manuscripts, it got added later.

Mark 16:9-20

9 When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons. 10 She went and told those who had been with him and who were mourning and weeping. 11 When they heard that Jesus was alive and that she had seen him, they did not believe it.

12 Afterward Jesus appeared in a different form to two of them while they were walking in the country. 13 These returned and reported it to the rest; but they did not believe them either.

14 Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen.

15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

19 After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God. 20 Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.

 

[Flbt]

There are good versions and there are some bad versions. The overwhelming majority are good. Do the research and find the best translation you can.

No legitimate, Spirit inspired “testament” was left out of the Bible.

No
No government and religious inspired testament was left out.

 

[Killingtime]

Man I go to sleep and wake up to the most popular thread on AH in one day

 

[Flbt]

It is 100% true that you’ll not find any explicit statement in the Bible saying there are no aliens.

My argument is based on the silence of Scripture and the exclusivity of Scripture.

Silence as in the complete absence of anything of the sort and exclusivity in the sense that the Bible is the entire story of God and His relationship with man, no one else.

Some will say that’s thin. After all, absence of something does not disprove its existence. That’s fine. It’s my opinion but I think it’s the Scriptural way to look at it.

You have the entire story of creation of the entire universe at the beginning, the fall and redemption of man through a perfect sacrifice and then the end of all things. Culminating in a new heaven and a new earth in which God will dwell with His people. No mention of anything else.

If there were anyone else you think He would’ve mentioned it in His Word. All this stuff serves to deceive, confuse, distract and sow doubt. Nothing more.

The angles one could argue against mine are myriad so it’s hard to address them more specifically without them being brought up.

Ok so your stand that there is no aliens. Is there left out of the Bible for us. Ok

 

[cash_tx]

Man I go to sleep and wake up to the most popular thread on AH in one day

Fitting that it's on a Sunday, right?

 

[Tanks]

I can't professionally work in the sciences and focus on what is written in a 2000-4500 year old text.

Maybe you should convert to Judaism. You have two main bodies of work Talmud and Torah.

AI described them more eloquently than I could.

The Talmud frequently quotes a passage from the Torah and then launches into a detailed, analytical, and often argumentative discussion about its meaning. It functions as a bridge, ensuring that the 3,000+ year-old text remains relevant to contemporary life, forming the basis for Halacha (Jewish law)

For Torah studies I recommend the following author.

Torah Studies - Kindle edition by Rebbe, Lubavitcher, Schneerson, Rabbi Menachem M., Sacks, Rabbi Jonathan, Rabbi Jonathan Sacks, Sacks, Jonathan. Religion & Spirituality Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com.

Torah Studies - Kindle edition by Rebbe, Lubavitcher, Schneerson, Rabbi Menachem M., Sacks, Rabbi Jonathan, Rabbi Jonathan Sacks, Sacks, Jonathan. Download it once and read it on your Kindle device, PC, phones or tablets. Use features like bookmarks, note taking and highlighting while reading...

www.amazon.com

 

[Killingtime]

Does it matter is aliens exist or not. Does that somehow diminish the lord or enhance the lord if they exist or don’t exist also is any life outside this plant considered alien? Because they found microorganisms on cheyava falls rock from mars…. If it’s germs is that considered life or not

 

[Muskox]

There are 200,000,000-600,000,000 stars in our galaxy, and another 200,000,000-800,000,000 galaxies in the universe.

The scale of the universe is vast, beyond fathomability for most people.

Those, 200,000,000-600,000,000 stars have trillions of planets, and out of those trillions of planets in our galaxy there are probably a 300,000-2,000,000 planets like ours that live in the habitable zone and have a star that isn't trying to kill them.

Out of those 300,000-2,000,000 planets, maybe 20,000 have an atmosphere, some will have already had a civilization, some will never get one, and some will have killed themselves millions or billions of years ago.

The closest known planet in a habitable zone that we can see thanks to the James Webb is over 300 years away at light speed. We don't have the technology to travel at light speed. We don't have the technology to get past 15-60km a second in space. What we would need to break the orbit of our own sun and get to Proxima Centauri.

Another civilization in our galaxy might have a way to either bend time and space, or travel at speeds faster than we can imagine.

They still have the physics and geometry problem of extreme distance, a planet that is moving within a star system that is moving with a galaxy that is constantly moving, and to find their way home.

Not saying it isn't happening, because I think it probably is. But it's not a Star-Trek or Star-Wars kind of space population.

 

[Flbt]

What if you’re wrong?

That can be said about every religion on the planet. And any faith based belief.

 

[Datchew]

The joke used to be "a priest, a rabbi, and protestant minister walk into a bar..."

Now I have to figure out a way to incorporate aliens.

Damn aliens had to go and ruin a classic.