Religions, Evolution and related Sciences

One thing I learned in this thread...for once, I am not the only Calvinist in the room!
 
One big assumption or leap of faith you are making is that it is God's word and not the words of men.

I realize people need faith and most of what is written in religious books are basis of our social infrastructure. And nothing wrong with that. When in college I joined the AE Pi fraternity and did enjoy the Friday Shabat dinners and the camaraderie it brought. When raising my daughter as a single dad (and later married dad) we did go to the Temple and she joined youth study groups as I rather she did that than wander the malls with friends. She did take it further and have her husband convert prior to marriage and she is more religious than I am.

There is nothing wrong with faith as long as logic prevails as well. There are Christian sects that would rather have their kids die than get medical help or transfusions etc., and that is plain wrong in my view.
We agree that it is an act of faith to believe in the Bible and what it is.

On medical help and transfusions etc we are in complete agreement. There is no Biblical justification for that belief.
 
This is a perfect example of why it is difficult or impossible to discuss this topic broadly with a fundamentalist. A circular argument is a form of philosophical fallacy because it becomes a response to every issue for which there is no logical counter argument.

I was glad that you at least conceded in one of the posts above that the bible was assembled by men - even smart men. I concur whole heartedly. The same willful, sinful, self-centered creatures who have begged for forgiveness through the centuries. As I noted earlier, all sorts of conclaves edited both the new and old testaments for 100 generations. Every one of them was composed of men motivated by yes, an urge to translate what God said or meant into Greek, Latin, or the then current language, but they were also men shaped by the political and social pressures of their eras as well. The protestant revolution further "corrupted" that process as a host of new sects were convinced they knew what God really meant. You and I represent different views of that process.

Our omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient creator has allowed all that to occur as he has allowed every other initiative by humankind. Because, unlike Muslims who believe the Koran in its totality represents an actual transcription of God speaking (the same God you and I worship by the way), we have very little transcribed as Jesus was speaking, much less God. I believe the generally held consensus is that the New Testament contains only around 15% of words actually said by Christ. For the rest we rely on all those flawed sinful human beings to relay the rest.

I am fully aware that there are Christian sects, that are comfortable with the book in their hand and demand strict adherence. There are other Christians, just as Christian as you claim to be, who believe it is incumbent upon them as Christians to use their knowledge, their intellect, and their education to more fully understand the nature of God's creation. I thankfully grew up in just such a church, a church I should hasten to add that did not feel a sense of arrogance that man had it all figured out.



So, the irony for me is that an otherwise any intelligent human living in the 21st century would consign themselves to a 14th century style interpretation of their beliefs. The good news is that I am confident that God, not an Evangelical, Catholic, Presbyterian, Methodist, Coptic, or Orthodox interpretation of God, but the God that is beyond human understanding, is very comfortable with any of the choices mankind makes to understand his creation.
Look, you can either think you know better or you can believe what was written down and view everything through that lens. I didn’t concede anything because I never said anything to the contrary..
 
I think your reliance on literalism is as diminished as the language that was available. The Torah was written 3400 hundred years ago maximum and it was written in Hebrew. A little bit of the Tanakh was written in Chaldean.

The mind of an uneducated human would not be able to articulate scientific concepts even if he saw everything exactly as it was. The author's languages lacked words to describe things in a technical manner whether eons, ions, hicks-bosons, space-time, or dark matter. Add to all of that, the languages themselves are metaphorical languages from metaphorical peoples. In Hebrew when God is Angry the text literally says "God's nose is red". God doesn't have a nose in any Christian or Jewish faith structure I am aware of, so sane theologians understand a conceptual metaphor.

The Genesis account was written in a language of metaphor and allegory, it was written not as a scientific treatise, but a philosophical answer to timeless questions.

Rabbis have understood this consistently for 3400 years. The most famous Rabbi understood this 2000 years ago.
This is an assertion, an opinion (along with the rest of your post):

“The Genesis account was written in a language of metaphor and allegory, it was written not as a scientific treatise, but a philosophical answer to timeless questions.”

An incorrect one at that.
 
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Is the radical Imam who convinces the young man in the name of god/allah not corrupting the word of god to suit his purpose. Or any other church leaders through multiple sects who have lead /instructed the faithful to commit atrocities in his name not corrupted the word of god? He allows that to happen as a test of faith.
Simple, the Bible itself has not been corrupted. People, false religions and cults misuse and corrupt what it says all the time but it itself isn’t corrupted. Don’t know what any imam has to do with it. Islam is a false religion
 
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Why can’t you believe in the Bible and aliens?
Is there any where in the Bible that states God never made anything else?
Use the search function. I posted about this at the beginning of this entire ordeal.

It’s actually post #12 of this thread.
 
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Have you read all the versions of the Bible?
Have you read all the testaments left out of the Bible?
There are good versions and there are some bad versions. The overwhelming majority are good. Do the research and find the best translation you can.

No legitimate, Spirit inspired “testament” was left out of the Bible.
 
@Red Leg “I thankfully grew up in just such a church,”

The question becomes: do you go anywhere now? I mean no offense but that was a long time ago.
 
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The other question is, to all of the people participating in this thread, when’s the last time you actually picked up a Bible (other than on Sunday just to follow along at church) and stepped foot in a church? And Easter and Christmas don’t count. Not just everyone in this thread but specifically those who claim they are Christians.

I gotta say, just about all the arguments sound more like secular critiques than Christians discussing doctrine.
 
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Evolution is incompatible with science, among other things, entropy.
This is profound and should be repeated.
And its the reason, ultimately, I went from being an atheist splicing gene sequences as a student studying evolutionary genetics in botanical viruses to a deist and eventually a Christian.

The 2nd LAW of thermodynamics describes a tax, a loss, a process of drag and decay on everything.

Yet evolution, (being a THEORY) requires staggeringly impossible mathematical luck to beneficially (and sequentially!) have mutations that are beneficial and compounding to the organism.
But first, the biggest leap of all, to have life spring from inert matter.

One remains a theory and one remains a law.

Enjoying this thread fellas.

**Edit - sorry to jump in late. Just realized I'm 4 pages behind**
 
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One thing I learned in this thread...for once, I am not the only Calvinist in the room!
One of my favorite pastors to listen to was a Calvinist. Calvinists are alright. Even if they’re wrong on some things :D
 
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The other question is, to all of the people participating in this thread, when’s the last time you actually picked up a Bible and stepped foot in a church? And Easter and Christmas don’t count. Not just everyone in this thread but specifically those who claim they are Christians.

I gotta say, just about all the arguments sound more like secular critiques than Christians discussing doctrine.
I have been waiting for the I am a better Christian than you argument. I particularly like the "those who claim they are Christians." At its heart this is a 21st century Exclusivity of dogma that is no different than the Spanish Inquisition, the members of whom would have cheerfully burned Wishfulthinker and most of us reading this at the stake for our heresy.

A I noted before, I am confident that God is great enough to have a place for those who wish to practice their faith in such profound denial of the "world" as he is those who try to more fully grasp the breath of his creation.
 
This is profound and should be repeated.
And its the reason, ultimately, I went from being an atheist splicing gene sequences as a student studying evolutionary genetics in botanical viruses to a deist and eventually a Christian.

The 2nd LAW of thermodynamics describes a tax, a loss, a process of drag and decay on everything.

Yet evolution, (being a THEORY) requires staggeringly impossible mathematical luck to beneficially (and sequentially!) have mutations that are beneficial and compounding to the organism.
But first, the biggest leap of all, to have life spring from inert matter.

One remains a theory and one remains a law.

Enjoying this thread fellas.
 
I have been waiting for the I am a better Christian than you argument. I particularly like the "those who claim they are Christians." At its heart this is a 21st century Exclusivity of dogma that is no different than the Spanish Inquisition, the members of whom would have cheerfully burned Wishfulthinker and most of us reading this at the stake for our heresy.

A I noted before, I am confident that God is great enough to have a place for those who wish to practice their faith in such profound denial of the "world" as he is those who try to more fully grasp the breath of his creation.
Holy deflection Batman! No attempt to answer the question whatsoever.. I didn’t say I’m a better Christian. Please don’t put words in my mouth. I’m honestly asking. So many people have felt the need to take part in the conversation, I’m just curious about the familiarity with the source material. You and Tanks are a lot alike, always attributing beliefs to me that I don’t hold or putting words in my mouth.

We all know people who claim to be something they’re not.. A person can’t just claim to be a Christian and bear no outward evidence of it.

In other words, if this discussion on AH is the most one has interacted with said source material in the last decade or administration then that’s a problem.

Honestly it’s also a challenge to do just what I questioned. Pick up a Bible with an open mind. Step foot in a church on a regular basis and check everything against what the Bible says
 
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Saw that and enjoyed the perspective.
I fall in the viewpoint as @WAB on those matters and since I'm late to that chapter of the chat, I'll leave it there.
 
Most important thing to figure out is what rifle to take on safari to alien planets.
And is a 270 grain or 300 grain tsx in 375 h&h going to be better in the chance I can't get a-frames?
 

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