Politics

[fourfive8]

I know where EV, solar panels and wind turbines work in a "real world"... in the movie Downsizing.
Actually I really like the movie but for different reasons, one as a satirical parody, among others.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

Electric vehicles (EV) create more CO2 from production through lifecycle to the end of its life than do petroleum powered vehicles. Hybrid vehicles do however produce less CO2 than either EV or petro powered vehicles.

This is an informative Ted Talk about this:

 

[John Wasmuth]

As always, a very good point.

In an urban setting like Austin, the EVs can be practical so long as they don't become so numerous as to create over demand on the grid. The Tesla is popular here among the new urban Texas emigres. For a daily commute, trips to the shopping center, etc. they are a fine choice. Though even there, a Tesla S battery takes anywhere from 18 hours to days to fully charge off of house current (came as an unpleasant surprise to friends). If you can find a Tesla supercharger (480 volt), you can get approx 200 mile range with a 20 minute charge.

Again, that is probably fine for daily life in an urban setting. But for driving any distance, and lots of folks between the coasts in this country do, charging time seems a pretty negative consideration. As I type, I am trying to figure out how I would manage a bird hunting trip to King Ranch much less Marathon.

I do not get the truck concept at all. Again, in an urban setting in this country I suppose there is a fairly large consumer group that will drive a F-150 or similar vehicle as a "car" or perhaps open bed SUV. That was a larger consumer group back when John Travolta was the Urban Cowboy and lines formed every evening to get into Gilley's in Dallas. But obviously Ford feels that group can support such a vehicle. But for people who actually use trucks, the performance impact on load and towing capacity is a real issue.

The following EV (Tesla) driving/operating tips are published by Gruber Motor Company which specializes in the repair and maintenance of EV vehicles - especially the Tesla. A couple caught my attention.

1. Don’t charge all the way
2. Avoid discharging completely
3. Avoid Superchargers
4. Alter your charging speed
5. Set a charging schedule
6. Switch over to percentage mode (for your in-car range display)
7. Systematically measure output
8. Don’t expose your battery to extreme temperatures

Or I can take my F250 to the Diesel pump.

What engine do you have in your F250 SD? My 09 is a 6.4L. My DPF went to pot last month and the front brakes keep locking up. 258,000 miles and no problems until now. Not sure an EV could hang with what ranch trucks do.

 

[Pheroze]

I wonder if GM is eyeing alternative fuels or carbon neutral production as a sensible alternative to EV. I traded in my Tundra for a new Duramax 3.0L Silverado. Night and day difference. I saved myself at least $150 on my last trip to camp. The engine technology is crazy. I don't get all the fuss about the emissions technology because this engine runs beautifully. This machine is nothing like my son's 1998 diesel.

 

[rookhawk]

Serious question. I have been a truck owner ever since I sold my CJ7 in 1983. How does an EV truck perform in snow better than any other four wheel drive truck?

It performs similarly. But at what price point? As I mentioned above, I need trucks, at least two more trucks. I can give my kids my truck that had an MSRP of $62k that I bought for $40k new in 2016, but to replace it like-for like will now cost $70k out the door. Or I can get a real truck 3/4 ton diesel well equipped for $100k. Or I can get a tiny truck, a Toyota Tacoma Limited 4x4 crew cab that we can barely squeeze in, for about $46k.

The cybertruck purportedly is fully equipped with most options at $50k (TBD, as they removed MSRPs). That’s a full size, 6 passenger truck versus the 4 passenger Tacoma for similar money. Of course the speed and power of the tesla will be better By the specs.

Cheap, fast, reliable, large interior space, what are the options? It appears the EV may be the bargain in the lineup.

As far as resale value, Teslas hold up pretty well. My ford expedition I dropped $70k on is a complete turd. Lost 60% of its value in 5 years, has no power and never did, and they all rusted their hoods and tailgates (defective aluminum) in the first two years. That car is worth $25k now, so its not like 4x4 people movers that run on gas have been a “deal”.

The only deal in the above narrative was my top of the line 1500 eco diesel that I bought new for 2/3 of MSRP. I’d buy three of them right now if I could reproduce that deal, but I cannot and they’ve discontinued that engine leaving me with the gas guzzling Hemi as the only half ton option…no thanks, I’ve been there, done that.

 

[Jfet]

My Tacoma doing what it does. We are 50 miles from a gas station.

 

[observe]

 

[observe]

 

[rookhawk]

View attachment 546815

Close. Change the word gas to diesel.

There is a war on diesel. It's efficient, cheap, powerful, and they hate it.

 

[observe]

 

[Scott CWO]

And because lots of things interest me - a really sobering look at the EV "revolution."

Electric Vehicles for Everyone? The Impossible Dream

A dozen U.S. states, from California to New York, have joined dozens of countries, from Ireland to Spain, with plans to ban the sale of new cars with an internal combustion engine (ICE), many prohibitions taking effect within a decade. Meanwhile, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)...

manhattan.institute

What a joke. Megatons of ore mining required. IEA doesn’t factor in the likelihood of an EV needing a replacement batter. The IEA also analyzed batteries half the size of batteries being used in most EVs sold. This is all a big scam.

 

[jeanes]

I actually think people should buy what they want/need without feeling they have to justify their purchase and should not be shamed for doing so. If a person wants an EV or gas or diesel vehicle, great. Just don't try to force or shame others into the same action.

 

[Newboomer]

It performs similarly. But at what price point? As I mentioned above, I need trucks, at least two more trucks. I can give my kids my truck that had an MSRP of $62k that I bought for $40k new in 2016, but to replace it like-for like will now cost $70k out the door. Or I can get a real truck 3/4 ton diesel well equipped for $100k. Or I can get a tiny truck, a Toyota Tacoma Limited 4x4 crew cab that we can barely squeeze in, for about $46k.

The cybertruck purportedly is fully equipped with most options at $50k (TBD, as they removed MSRPs). That’s a full size, 6 passenger truck versus the 4 passenger Tacoma for similar money. Of course the speed and power of the tesla will be better By the specs.

Cheap, fast, reliable, large interior space, what are the options? It appears the EV may be the bargain in the lineup.

As far as resale value, Teslas hold up pretty well. My ford expedition I dropped $70k on is a complete turd. Lost 60% of its value in 5 years, has no power and never did, and they all rusted their hoods and tailgates (defective aluminum) in the first two years. That car is worth $25k now, so its not like 4x4 people movers that run on gas have been a “deal”.

The only deal in the above narrative was my top of the line 1500 eco diesel that I bought new for 2/3 of MSRP. I’d buy three of them right now if I could reproduce that deal, but I cannot and they’ve discontinued that engine leaving me with the gas guzzling Hemi as the only half ton option…no thanks, I’ve been there, done that.

I watched a video on a comparison of the electric ford 150 and a conventional gas 150. Both were hauling identical trailers with the same load one behind the other. The sparky got about 125 miles on a full charge. The gas rig used about 1/3 of a tank of gas. Now what kind of efficiency is that? Sparkys just don't cut it except for a commuter scooter. If you want a truck, get a real one--diesel in a full size rig. I will concede to a slushbox as most people today can't drive a stick.

Efficiency is about the same with the new slushboxes but I like to control my shifts, not having it jump up and down shifting all the time. I've seen some slushboxes that couldn't start a good load. They just sit there and rev up. With a clutch in a real trans it locks in gear and moves. Guess my choice is obvious since I've driven sticks since 1945. Tried the other one occasionally but don't like them one bit.

 

[Wheels]

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Hydrogen power would solve much of this:

Here's How Toyota Could Save The Internal Combustion Engine

With an approach to achieving carbon neutrality, Toyota is betting on running combustion engines on Hydrogen, but it faces some challenges.

www.topspeed.com

 

[Wheels]

 

[IdaRam]

I actually think people should buy what they want/need without feeling they have to justify their purchase and should not be shamed for doing so. If a person wants an EV or gas or diesel vehicle, great. Just don't try to force or shame others into the same action.

Remember way back when (like 2 years ago) so many of us were saying this exact thing, but in regard to vaccines?

You will own nothing and be happy! (Credit: POS Klaus Schwab)
Why own an EV when it’s value will be zero when the battery needs to be replaced?

 

[Woodcarver]

Looks like with changing taxes in Belgium, the company car will be obligatory EV in not too long for me. Thing is that my wife already has an EV on the way, meaning we would not have a fuel based vehicle any longer...

That would mean a third car... for 2 people.

Only 3?!? You are being deprived over there. Between the two of us, there are 5, all gas or diesel.

It's 23 miles to town at the closest point, so depending on which part of town I need to go to, and how many stops are needed, the round trip could be well over 100 miles. Sometimes that trip is done at sub-freezing temps; what's the range on an EV at those temperatures?
Hunting camp is a shade over 200 miles away and up; not uncommon for the high temp for the week to be 10*-20*F at 10000'. Typically that trip has a couple thousand pounds of gear going with me. If successful, another 300-1000 pounds gets added for the drive home. What effect do tire chains, mountain snow and mud, and elevation have on an EV attempting to be a real truck? Let's see an EV truck go through that test. And do it again after 18 years, 180k miles....
I've put 200+ miles on in a day bird hunting in KS. Relatively flat driving, but there isn't a gas station, let alone a charging station, anywhere close; not very many houses to speak of either. Stretching that "rated" 225 mi range would be foolhardy. Unlike my fuel gauge, the charge meter in an EV doesn't move with any consistency; how far can I actually go when the charge meter shows 20% remaining, but I'm off-road, it's 20* out, and some snow is falling? (Remember, the heater is all electric, not just a free byproduct of the ICE).
EVs might work in cities, for people who never leave the city, but for the 80% of this country that isn't a city, they don't cut it. A refueling stop adds 10 minutes to my drive; an EV stop adds a minimum of 30 minutes. The EV, at best, goes 200 miles before it needs another stop; my diesel goes 400, and can stretch to 500 if needed (and the bladder allows). Add a trailer and weight, and the EV fails even faster.
The fallacy of an EV being "green" is another crock perpetrated by the left I didn't even get to in this little diatribe....

 

[rookhawk]

@Woodcarver you've taken the extraordinary case and made it the normative case. You've created strawman arguments to shoot down as well.

I'm aware of no car company that is suggesting an EV or hybrid to provide an alternative to a 1-ton pickup with a V8 diesel engine capable of hauling 15,000 pound trailers.

 

[shootist~]

It's always better to buy when you can. Bought my 2022 GMC Canyon (gas/6cyl) late in 2021. Last of that engine in that size GM, as far as I know. Probably the last truck I'll ever buy.