Politics

HookMeUpII said:
Agreed. Trump is the newest version and spearhead of the GOP establishment. Lets get that out of the way first.

There is what is right and just, then there is reality.

The right or just POV: Trump did amazing things for the economy, the country, and pretty much everyone from the white collar elite to the common working (blue collar) man. He was/is an absolute buffoon of a human. If he could learn to keep his mouth shut he would have gotten reelected.

The realistic POV: Trump stands 0% change of winning against even Biden, if he gets the nomination. Is it right and fair? Nope. But lots of things are not fair. The GOP are guilty of the same "idealistic" nonsense the dems are. Prop up a candidate because he fits the bill but has 0% chance of being elected.

Follow this one:

Biden has a double digit re-election margin in polling, right now, over Trump in 2024. Like 30%.
Trump has a double digit lead over DeSantis, right now, in the GOP primary polls.
DeSantis has a margin, albeit slim, over Biden in the popular vote for 2024.

What does that tell you, as of now? Trump is unelectable against a guy who literally is a walking vegetable. DeSantis really has a chance. Guy is actually pulling votes from moderate dems and those right leaning. But we won't support him? Why? Because we have to support someone who was unjustly criminally charged because it's "the right thing to do?"

If that doesn't highlight the idiocy that is the GOP party in 2023 I don't know what does. Its maddeningly frustrating that people on the right are willing to just throw a vote out the window and end up in another 4 years of misery because "Trump 2024!!!!!"

Dole? McCain? Romney? I mean c'mon. We keep doing this over and over and over.

I will absolutely not vote for Trump in the primary. Right now it looks like 99% DeSantis for me. If Trump gets the nomination I will without a doubt vote for him. I would never vote Dem because I absolutely don't support pedophiles, "delusionists", and communists.

EDIT - Here you go. This is just painful to watch.

nypost.com

Biden beats Trump big, loses to DeSantis: 2024 polls

President Biden would handily defeat former President Donald Trump in the 2024 Electoral College — but lose to Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis.
nypost.com nypost.com
Click to expand...
I think that is a pretty accurate assessment. A simple set of comparative figures out there should be compelling to anyone wanting to actually elect a Republican president. In a real vote, not a poll, DeSantis won the state of Florida by nearly 20% - a state Trump won by 3%.
 
Red Leg said:
I think that is a pretty accurate assessment. A simple set of comparative figures out there should be compelling to anyone wanting to actually elect a Republican president. In a real vote, not a poll, DeSantis won the state of Florida by nearly 20% - a state Trump won by 3%.
Click to expand...
I agree with both of your assessments. I fear that if Trump is the nominee, even if he wins, he won't carry the House and Senate with him. However, I think DeSantis will.

Just as important for my concerns, I trust DeSantis a lot more on gun rights than I do Trump. While Trump appointed a lot of good judges, he sucked on guns. Looking at what he did - bump stock ban - and what he didn't do when he had majorities in both houses - Hearing Protection Act and national reciprocity, tells me the gun culture only gets lip service from Trump.

The Presidency is too vital to leave to two guys who will be in their 80s by the end of their term.
 
fourfive8 said:
And I suppose the 15 or so hold outs who made sure conservative guardrails were in place before OKing the the new speaker were all old Republican establishment types also? I remember the finger pointing and name calling at them and their supporters as real democracy was on full display. I'm not sure many of the detractors and whiners know the difference and simply enjoy sitting on the sidelines in a delusional, comfortable position and throwing stones, playing the "I'm an independent thinker game". I have several acquaintances who to this day smugly play the same game following the 2020 election. When asked about how they like the current train wreck in the WH and the current admin that literally threatens this country, they think they escape the reality by claiming to have not voted for Biden. Saying such crap as, "Don't blame me, I didn't vote for Biden. I voted for such and such because I didn't like Trump (fill in the blank reason- usually parroted talking points endlessly droned by CNN since 2016." But as they tell me this, the reality is inescapable. "By playing that game you did get Biden elected!" Denial can be bliss I guess.
Click to expand...

I think you and I agree here but I'm not quite sure. The McCarthy thing was shameful. We finally took back the house and we can't behind a speaker? I mean lets look at the people behind it...Boerbert? Female version of Trump. Gaetz? It's not surprising.

I will never vote Dem. Not "just cause" but because I support absolutely nothing the democrats do or stand for. If Trump is our pick for 2024 you can bet he gets my vote.

I just think the GOP is throwing away a massive opportunity here. I have a client who would absolutely not vote for Trump. He voted for Biden. Admittedly regrets it, considerably. However, said he'd vote for Biden again if it was him and Trump. Biden v. DeSantis? He'd vote GOP. Biden v. Haley? He'd vote GOP. He even said if it was someone other than Biden v. Trump, he will absolutely not vote for Trump. For him, it's never Trump. DeSantis, Haley, Vivek, etc. There are a lot of moderate dems who would flip but NEVER on Trump.

GOP is literally about to shoot themselves in the foot just as they did with Dole, McCain, and Romney.
 
Biden administration doesn't want Russia to build a naval base in Sudan, so they back another general to change the regime. Plan doesn't work and now we have a 1960's type cold war scenario with the locals bearing the pain.

DOS is so pathetic that no evacuation plans were in place for American citizens. Other countries are scrambling to make it happen but Biden administration has no clue.

 
HookMeUpII said:
I think you and I agree here but I'm not quite sure. The McCarthy thing was shameful. We finally took back the house and we can't behind a speaker? I mean lets look at the people behind it...Boerbert? Female version of Trump. Gaetz? It's not surprising.

I will never vote Dem. Not "just cause" but because I support absolutely nothing the democrats do or stand for. If Trump is our pick for 2024 you can bet he gets my vote.

I just think the GOP is throwing away a massive opportunity here. I have a client who would absolutely not vote for Trump. He voted for Biden. Admittedly regrets it, considerably. However, said he'd vote for Biden again if it was him and Trump. Biden v. DeSantis? He'd vote GOP. Biden v. Haley? He'd vote GOP. He even said if it was someone other than Biden v. Trump, he will absolutely not vote for Trump. For him, it's never Trump. DeSantis, Haley, Vivek, etc. There are a lot of moderate dems who would flip but NEVER on Trump.

GOP is literally about to shoot themselves in the foot just as they did with Dole, McCain, and Romney.
Click to expand...

Think both your posts are kinda obvious to ...well some of us watching from outside.... :D Beers:
 
@spike.t

Mike... you folks to whom it is obvious from the outside, well, it doesn't appear that it seems so obvious to some of the folks on this side. I guess what comes to mind for me is maybe the violinists playing on the deck of the Titanic as it was sinking? :unsure: Folks are hearing the music, but the ship is still sinking, IMHO.


888384.jpg
 
Meanwhile on another subject

 
HookMeUpII said:
I think you and I agree here but I'm not quite sure. The McCarthy thing was shameful. We finally took back the house and we can't behind a speaker? I mean lets look at the people behind it...Boerbert? Female version of Trump. Gaetz? It's not surprising.
Click to expand...

Interesting take since Trump was saying to vote for McCarthy, and these 19 held out and got concessions. I actually thought it was a great moment, and was more aligned to what the founders intended. I also think it speaks to the arrogance of McCarthy given he was more concerns about moving his stuff into the speakers office rather than making sure he had the votes.
 
Wheels said:
Biden administration doesn't want Russia to build a naval base in Sudan, so they back another general to change the regime. Plan doesn't work and now we have a 1960's type cold war scenario with the locals bearing the pain.

DOS is so pathetic that no evacuation plans were in place for American citizens. Other countries are scrambling to make it happen but Biden administration has no clue.

Click to expand...
A naval base in Sudan? Would it be called the Great Sudd submarine force, or just the navel gazers?
 
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