Looking for a new suv

[PHOENIX PHIL]

What little wagon do you use to pull things at the range? I like that idea. A range I go to, you have to park fairly far away and sometimes I get annoyed making the many back and forth trips.

I don't remember the brand, but if you do a search on collapsible wagons on Amazon, you'll see plenty of them. Just make sure you don't buy too small where your rifles/shotguns won't fit well enough to stay put.....ask me how I know. The one I got says it's rated for 300lbs! Way more than a few boxes of bullets/shells, a couple guns, rifle rests, spotting scope and whatever else you take with you.

 

[Garciamarquez1918]

Depending on your timeframe there are strong rumors that Toyota is going to come out with a compact version of the current 250 Landcruiser.

 

[rookhawk]

So i got tired of my Ram 2500, it was really too big for my needs and was getting up there in miles. So, i traded it in on a new Jeep 2-door Wrangler. While i like the Wranglers size and abilities... I hate its drive train! I also dont trust its reliability as the build quality seems quite poor.

So im on the hunt for something similar in size and capability to the Wrangler, but better built.

Basic requirements:
- small, preferably not much bigger than the 2-door Wrangler.
- 4x4 with enough ground clearance to deal with fallen trees and moderately deep snow.
- the ability to tow at least 1000lb
- enough space in the back to haul 300lb of salt pellets (big 50lb bags) for maintaining a communal well. (The Wrangler can do it with the rear seat removed).

Any suggestions? Thank you!

A mint condition 2014 Toyota FJ Cruiser. That was the last model year in the USA and they are the highest resale priced car in America, but as far as an indestructible, all-purpose SUV that meets your parameters, there is no better. Expect to pay new Wrangler money for one of the FJs with less than 50,000 miles though.

 

[CJNJ]

I traded my 2015 RAM Rebel after its air suspension failed off road on a very cold deer hunt for a 2023 Defender 90 on coil springs. Similar in size to your 2 door jeep but much more refined and very capable off road. Contrary to internet trolls it has been very reliable.

 

[Rare Breed]

Depending on your timeframe there are strong rumors that Toyota is going to come out with a compact version of the current 250 Landcruiser.

They have but it is not for sale in the US...cannot understand why.

 

[Rare Breed]

I’m thinking about a 2 door Bronco. Wished it came In a diesel…

I really like everything about the Bronco except the Eco Boost Engine. I had one on a Ford F150 King Ranch and ended up having to pay over $7,000 in repairs then sold it. I have sworn off Eco Boost anything.

 

[C.W. Richter]

Toyota or Nissan (have had a pile and many >400K mi) For off-road and work/towing purposes i do not like the high-revving twin turbo V6s, favoring the V8s (discont. '23 I believe), but the V6s make sense for everyday driving and occasional driving off-road. Honestly, some of the build qualities of the N (interior layout, brakes) exceeds the Ts, but the reverse is true in some departments too. Take care of It and it'll take care of you. 'Was on only 1 safari featuring old Land Rovers; the rest featured Toyota and Nissan (albeit diesels.) 'Currently have a twin-turbo V8 diesel Nissan (6 y/o, 135K mi) and LOVE it! 24.5 MPG and 8,000 lb w/ 2 passengers. The smaller, high-revving stuff gets 15-20.

 

[Miletic]

My opinion Matt85 :
Mercedes G class (2 doors) - so expensive
Toyota Land Cruiser (2 doors) - best by
Nissan Patrol (2 doors) - very good car

 

[Altitude sickness]

Maybe a hair longer than your jeep. But 4x the off road capability, reliability at a fraction of the cost.
One of the most revered Overlanders ever built

Lexus' Most Hardcore Off-Roader Is The Perfect Beater 4x4

If you’re looking for a well-built and potentially long-lasting SUV for off-road fun, check out the Lexus LX 470. This is why.

carbuzz.com

 

[mdwest]

What little wagon do you use to pull things at the range? I like that idea. A range I go to, you have to park fairly far away and sometimes I get annoyed making the many back and forth trips.

Not sure which one Phil uses... but Academy sells a couple of different variants ranging from about $50 to $150 depending on what size you want, how much weight you want it to be able to hold, etc..

https://www.academy.com/p/academy-s...lT7nwpQb_FSZOERk__p2de4GfYSN7fD4aAsNLEALw_wcB

We own one of the above (light weight), thats great for hauling crap around.. and also bought the heavier duty big brother (below) when my daughter was shooting competitive shotgun.. I was able to mount a couple of shotgun rests on the sides, plus put all of her kit, and keep a cooler with drinks in it, etc.. for the days I didnt want to have to haul the Polaris side by side out for sporting clays, etc..

Access to this page has been denied.

You can buy them at Scheels, Cabelas, and Bass Pro as well...

 

[Datchew]

Toyota 4Runner TRD Pro - it’s 4 doors but great vehicle.

Toyota FJ cruiser - no longer made and if you find a good low miles ones you’ll pay a premium.

Another 4Runner vote
We have a 2016. It's been through mud, snow, ice (Oregon), dirt, sand, cactus (Texas) and survived my lovely wife as a daily driver.

It'll fit 15 bags of corn without putting the 2nd row seats down and surprisingly off-road capable.
And... It's a Toyota. Add gas. It just works.

My only beef in the last 155k miles is it's underpowered IMO. Maybe underpowered isn't accurate... But the gearbox makes you really want it if you want to go.

 

[SaintPanzer]

I just want to point out that all this talk of "subscription" heated seats, radio, etc. as well as ECUs and other electronic nonsense makes me love this thing even more. It's almost 30 years old, no where near the maintenance nightmare I was promised it would be, and probably meets your overall length requirement as well...

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

if you did go 4 door, would you consider a Hybrid?

 

[matt85]

if you did go 4 door, would you consider a Hybrid?

Hybrids are mostly useless where I live. Everything is too far away and there are very few chances to use your brakes (to charge the vehicle). Also, the point of the vehicle is to be a winter/work vehicle... hybrids are not known for efficiency in the cold or when pulling/hauling.

 

[Muskox]

I traded my 2015 RAM Rebel after its air suspension failed off road on a very cold deer hunt for a 2023 Defender 90 on coil springs. Similar in size to your 2 door jeep but much more refined and very capable off road. Contrary to internet trolls it has been very reliable.

This is 100% BS.

Ground clearance matters, power matters, and angle of departure and attack matter.

More than anything else tires matter. The other four factors are nice to haves. Tires matter the most. I went in places with my wife's Toyota Sienna in deep snow and Chinese snow tires here in Germany the I got stuck in my Subaru Outback with winter rated all season tires.

Good tires on a Yugo and you have a formidable off roader.

I actually hate the visibility in the Land Rover, but all 3 of them suck for that.

The 2025 Land Rover Defender 110, 2025 Ford Bronco (5-door/4-door), and 2025 Jeep Wrangler (Unlimited/5-door with Rubicon package) are all highly capable off-road SUVs. Here's a direct comparison focused on your key criteria: ground clearance, power (horsepower), approach angle, and departure angle. These specs are for the most off-road-optimized configurations (e.g., with air suspension or highest packages like Sasquatch/Xtreme Recon for Bronco, Rubicon for Wrangler, and air suspension/off-road height for Defender).

• Ground Clearance (maximum/off-road):
  • Ford Bronco (Raptor trim or equivalent max): Up to 13.1 inches (highest in this group for standard production models).
  • Jeep Wrangler Rubicon (with Xtreme Recon package): Up to 12.9 inches.
  • Land Rover Defender 110 (with air suspension in off-road mode): Up to 11.5 inches (about 293mm).
  • Winner: Ford Bronco has the most ground clearance.
• Power (maximum horsepower available):
  • Land Rover Defender 110 (Octa or high-output V8 variants): Up to 626 hp (twin-turbo V8); more commonly up to 518 hp on V8 models or 395 hp on inline-6.
  • Jeep Wrangler Rubicon (Rubicon 392 with V8): Up to 470 hp.
  • Ford Bronco (Raptor trim): Up to 418 hp (twin-turbo V6); base models around 300-330 hp.
  • Winner: Land Rover Defender 110 has the most power (by a significant margin in top trims).
• Approach Angle (maximum/off-road):
  • Ford Bronco (Raptor or with 35" tires/Sasquatch): Up to 47.2 degrees.
  • Jeep Wrangler Rubicon (with Xtreme Recon): Up to 47.4 degrees (best-in-class claims for 4-door in some configs). Standard Rubicon around 43.9-44 degrees.
  • Land Rover Defender 110 (air suspension off-road): Up to 38 degrees (around 37.5-38 degrees).
  • Winner: Jeep Wrangler Rubicon edges out slightly (or ties very closely with Bronco in top configs).
• Departure Angle (maximum/off-road):
  • Land Rover Defender 110 (air suspension off-road): Up to 40-42 degrees (around 40-41.9 degrees; higher in some configs).
  • Ford Bronco (Raptor): Up to 40.5 degrees.
  • Jeep Wrangler Rubicon: Around 37 degrees (35.6-37 degrees standard; up to 40.4 degrees with Xtreme Recon).
  • Winner: Tie-ish between Defender 110 and Bronco, with Defender often at or near the top (e.g., 40+ degrees), and Bronco close behind. Wrangler trails slightly unless maxed out.

Overall Summary:

• If prioritizing ground clearance, the Ford Bronco (especially Raptor) leads.
• For raw power, the Defender 110 dominates with its high-output engines.
• For approach and departure angles (critical for extreme obstacles), the Jeep Wrangler Rubicon (with packages) and Bronco are very strong, often beating the Defender's angles despite the Defender's adjustable air suspension helping in practice.

The Jeep Wrangler Rubicon is frequently praised for pure off-road articulation and angles in comparisons, the Bronco for clearance and modern features, and the Defender for luxury + capability balance (plus superior wading depth ~35-39 inches). Real-world performance depends on exact trim, tires, and setup—test drives or professional reviews (e.g., on tough trails) are ideal for your needs.
The 2025 Land Rover Defender 110, 2025 Ford Bronco (5-door/4-door), and 2025 Jeep Wrangler (Unlimited/5-door with Rubicon package) are all highly capable off-road SUVs. Here's a direct comparison focused on your key criteria: ground clearance, power (horsepower), approach angle, and departure angle. These specs are for the most off-road-optimized configurations (e.g., with air suspension or highest packages like Sasquatch/Xtreme Recon for Bronco, Rubicon for Wrangler, and air suspension/off-road height for Defender).

• Ground Clearance (maximum/off-road):
  
  • Ford Bronco (Raptor trim or equivalent max): Up to 13.1 inches (highest in this group for standard production models).
  • Jeep Wrangler Rubicon (with Xtreme Recon package): Up to 12.9 inches.
  • Land Rover Defender 110 (with air suspension in off-road mode): Up to 11.5 inches (about 293mm).
  • Winner: Ford Bronco has the most ground clearance.
• Power (maximum horsepower available):
  
  • Land Rover Defender 110 (Octa or high-output V8 variants): Up to 626 hp (twin-turbo V8); more commonly up to 518 hp on V8 models or 395 hp on inline-6.
  • Jeep Wrangler Rubicon (Rubicon 392 with V8): Up to 470 hp.
  • Ford Bronco (Raptor trim): Up to 418 hp (twin-turbo V6); base models around 300-330 hp.
  • Winner: Land Rover Defender 110 has the most power (by a significant margin in top trims).
• Approach Angle (maximum/off-road):
  
  • Ford Bronco (Raptor or with 35" tires/Sasquatch): Up to 47.2 degrees.
  • Jeep Wrangler Rubicon (with Xtreme Recon): Up to 47.4 degrees (best-in-class claims for 4-door in some configs). Standard Rubicon around 43.9-44 degrees.
  • Land Rover Defender 110 (air suspension off-road): Up to 38 degrees (around 37.5-38 degrees).
  • Winner: Jeep Wrangler Rubicon edges out slightly (or ties very closely with Bronco in top configs).
• Departure Angle (maximum/off-road):
  
  • Land Rover Defender 110 (air suspension off-road): Up to 40-42 degrees (around 40-41.9 degrees; higher in some configs).
  • Ford Bronco (Raptor): Up to 40.5 degrees.
  • Jeep Wrangler Rubicon: Around 37 degrees (35.6-37 degrees standard; up to 40.4 degrees with Xtreme Recon).
  • Winner: Tie-ish between Defender 110 and Bronco, with Defender often at or near the top (e.g., 40+ degrees), and Bronco close behind. Wrangler trails slightly unless maxed out.

Overall Summary:

• If prioritizing ground clearance, the Ford Bronco (especially Raptor) leads.
• For raw power, the Defender 110 dominates with its high-output engines.
• For approach and departure angles (critical for extreme obstacles), the Jeep Wrangler Rubicon (with packages) and Bronco are very strong, often beating the Defender's angles despite the Defender's adjustable air suspension helping in practice.

The Jeep Wrangler Rubicon is frequently praised for pure off-road articulation and angles in comparisons, the Bronco for clearance and modern features, and the Defender for luxury + capability balance (plus superior wading depth ~35-39 inches). Real-world performance depends on exact trim, tires, and setup—test drives or professional reviews (e.g., on tough trails) are ideal for your needs.

 

[318AE]

As some others have said, if you want a practical solution, that is boringly good, with perhaps only one turbo, check out the Subaru wilderness models. Your fellow owners will include women that wear comfortable shoes, but they are really good cars.

 

[Muskox]

There are not a lot of options for a mid-sized hunter wagon that is actually awesome off road.

Off road on rock trails in the Rockies is a hell of a lot different than off road on a Texas deer lease, or in North Dakota on a big prairie patch trying to get across a wheat field in the rain.

The new LandCruiser has the lowest attack angle, least power, lowest clearance and one of the nicer rides.

You have to compromise.

 

[fourfive8]

I’d avoid anything Itsa Dodge, Fiat, Stellantis (aka Jeep). But you already know that or have found out. IMO, also avoid any of the recently popular trendy unknown Asian units or even oft name dropped European makes and the like. Stick with common and established makes that can be worked on, where parts are easily available. I’ll stick with my first idea of low mileage, used Tacoma. Maybe add a quality tonneau cover for weather resistance for the bed space. Or just invest in a custom Moab rock crawler for clearance and angle of attack- if that turns your crank.

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

Hybrids are mostly useless where I live. Everything is too far away and there are very few chances to use your brakes (to charge the vehicle). Also, the point of the vehicle is to be a winter/work vehicle... hybrids are not known for efficiency in the cold or when pulling/hauling.

I’m still watching for your choice and review!

I had a 2008 2 Door Rubicon Wrangler. It was underpowered… I’ll take a better look at the 2 Door Bronco.

 

[Daryl S]

Don't know about small SUV's - today's look like cars to me, even though they might have 4 wheel drive or ALL wheel drive.
I bought my F350 6.7lt. diesel in 2015 and love it still.