Hodi!

[nztimb]

Giday SaintPanzer and welcome to the A H forums

 

[Shootist43]

SaintPanzer, first off what a way to remember a beloved pet. Talking about finding a good 375 H&H consider that while in Europe you might look for a used BRNO ZKK 602. These are / were well made rifles. Standard grade rifles will not have the beautiful stocks that a custom rifle offers but they are sought after by African PH(s) for their reliability and accuracy. Besides that you could always upgrade the stock should you have a mind to.

 

[CoElkHunter]

Welcome to AH!

 

[Sabattiboy]

Thank you.

Is there anyone in the US that has not stalked a whitetail? Elk are next on my list.

Here in Europe, I stalk red stags, and have both stalked and used a stand on boar. I'm trying to set up an Austrian hunt for Gams this fall, need to figure that all out. Of course, Rehbock have also been victims, and there was that Dachs...

My safe here is small, so I use a .30-06 as an "all rounder". It is a Steyr-Mannlicher Classic II. I've just scoped (and it took forever to find a true Johann Springer Erben mount) a Mannlicher Schoenauer 9.5X57 carbine. At home, I have a matching 6.5X54. Both are pre-war, the big one has a very low serial number, the small is stamped "Made In Germany", so that should give you a good idea as to the dates. Those all work for now, but others will join them. I have set aside quite a bit for that retirement present to myself, and was all sold on a Dakota Traveler in .300 H&H and .375 H&H, but, well, Dakota... So I'll find something else to fill that role. What I should do is find an '03 Springfield action, and have that sporterized, as that would be a perfect bookend to the career... we'll see. I do have sitting in the safe at home an FN Mauser action that I was going to have done up in 9.3X64... too many decisions.

Timeline for the Africa Hunt is 3 to 5 years. Perhaps sooner, not later. Right now, I am thinking Namibia, and Sable - but I don't think I have a final decision on that yet. I think it was Mogadishu that taught me that no one promises you tomorrow, so I try to not look too far ahead.

Oh, and to answer the inevitable screen-name questions, I tried to add a website to my profile, but it wouldn't save. A visit to www.saintpanzer.com should probably answer the "why".

How about being stalked by a whitetail?
On a late 1970's deer hunt in Missouri I was walking back in when I noticed large deer tracks in the light snow. They were near a tall mound maybe 30 feet in diameter and in a moment of levity decided to follow the tracks. They went around the mound and I stayed on them. After a couple of laps my lightbulb lit up. There was one set of tracks when I started and I suddenly noticed more then one set. That bugger was walking around the mound behind me.

 

[Uncle Sauce]

Welcome to AH from another Idahoan!

 

[Spearhead]

Welcome to a wonderfully informative site.

 

[Tra3]

Welcome!

 

[yhc]

Welcome to AH @SaintPanzer.

Where are you located in Germany? KMC by any chance?

 

[SaintPanzer]

Hello SaintPanzer,

Khomas Highland Hunting Safaris of Namibia, welcomes you to the greatest forum on earth...

As for the Dakota brand of rifles, those are (perhaps formerly were?) very well made and good looking rifles as well.
However, IMO they are not worth 8 to 10 thousand bucks.
I had my .300 H&H built from scratch (1950’s FN Commercial ‘98 Mauser action) for several thousand USA dollars less than a Dakota cost at the time.
At first glance, only the Griffin & Howe style front sight gave it away as not being a Pre-War Oberndorf Mauser Magnum...

Thank you! I am considering a custom build, but have no idea where to start. I do have a standard Mauser action made by FN, but I don't believe I can use it for a magnum rifle, which is why I was thinking about the 9.3X64. My understanding is that the bolt face will need some work, but that's it.

I am thinking of a Springfield action in .30-06, mostly because it makes the most "sense" as a retirement piece. Matches perfectly the crossed rifles on my marksmanship badge. There's a bit of history there. I do want to play with a 220 grain. Very much the .30-03 round. Not a "long range" bit with the round nose, but... get closer. I do have some questions about using my FN action. Will save those for the gunsmithing sub-forum.

 

[SaintPanzer]

Welcome to AH @SaintPanzer.

Where are you located in Germany? KMC by any chance?

Bit farther south, in Baden Würtemburg.

 

[Shootist43]

SaintPanzer, if you are looking at a build on an '06 Springfield, look no further than the 35 Whelen. It offers the same ballistics as the 9.3 x 62 but in a standard length action. All it takes is a barrel swap. That is exactly what I did and I love it!!

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

I've just scoped (and it took forever to find a true Johann Springer Erben mount) a Mannlicher Schoenauer 9.5X57 carbine. At home, I have a matching 6.5X54. Both are pre-war, the big one has a very low serial number, the small is stamped "Made In Germany", so that should give you a good idea as to the dates.

Welcome to the forum.

The proof dates on your Mannlicher Schoenauers should be rather close to their date of manufacture or assembly at Steyr. You'll have to have the action 'out of the wood' to see them.

On your M1910 (assuming that's the 'big one'), look for a set of numbers similar to these:

Austrian Proofs on Pre - WW2 Mannlicher Schoenauer

On example shown above, 'NPv' denotes a Vienna 'Nitro Proof', '411.08' on receiver and on barrel indicates the 411th arm to be proofed at Vienna in 1908. The 4143 on barrel is the Steyr serial number and should match same # on underside of receiver, underside of bolt handle, and bedding area of stock, if all are original. The 3001 is a proof house registry number, C6.5 is the chambering, indicative of an M1903 on this specimen.

As it seems you're already aware, 'Made in Germany' on an MS indicates an arm manufactured, or at least assembled, during the Anschluss of 1938 - 45.

Receivers manufactured up to some time in 1926 (not sure which month) will be marked thusly on left rail:

In 1926 the company name was changed to Steyr Werke AG, as was the side rail stamp.

Receivers made during Anschluss were stamped thus:

Mannlicher Schoenauers manufactured during Anschluss will carry German proof marks with a two digit date, generally followed by a period.
It seems several MS were assembled during Anschluss of pre - Anschluss parts and display a mixture of Austrian and German proofs.

Here are images of an Austrian proofed receiver with replacement barrel proofed during Anschluss and showing later British reproof. Notice '6.7' in place of '6.5' as the Germans measured from groove rather than land:

Anscluss (German) proofs from same barrel"

From 1939 Stoeger Catalog:

More information can be found here: https://www.africahunting.com/threa...908-m1910-m1924-m1925-or-high-velocity.47277/

I have my Grandfather's cased M1910 Take Down Model that wears a Gerard B scope on claw mounts that was on the 1922 proofed MS when Grand Dad purchased it 'second hand' at Colombo, Ceylon in 1931.

Enjoy!

 

[Brian Rothhammer]

SaintPanzer, if you are looking at a build on an '06 Springfield, look no further than the 35 Whelen. It offers the same ballistics as the 9.3 x 62 but in a standard length action. All it takes is a barrel swap. That is exactly what I did and I love it!!

I believe he's 'already there' with the M1910 Mannlicher Schoenauer at 9.5X57.
Aren't these ballistics rather similar to those of the .35 Whelen?

 

[SaintPanzer]

Welcome to the forum.

The proof dates on your Mannlicher Schoenauers should be rather close to their date of manufacture or assembly at Steyr. You'll have to have the action 'out of the wood' to see them.

On your M1910 (assuming that's the 'big one'), look for a set of numbers similar to these:

I don't want to go too far down the rabbit hole. My M1910 has been discussed (with photos) on the nitro express forum. Short story: No proof marks visible, they may be underneath a dovetail mount ring that has been soldered on. Alternate possibility: the rifle was made for export to the US where proof marks were not required, so it was never sent. I don't know the answer to that, and I'm not too worried about it. The manufacturer mark (Oesterr &ct) indicates it was made before 1924. The low (below 700) serial number probably has it much earlier than that (perhaps even 1910).

The 6.5 was in fact proofed in 1939. Less of a mystery there, and yes, very aware of the "Austria/Germany/Austria Switch." There are parts of that little game I live every day!

 

[VertigoBE]

Welcome to AH @SaintPanzer ! I have a feeling you’ll fit right in

 

[Velo Dog]

Thank you! I am considering a custom build, but have no idea where to start. I do have a standard Mauser action made by FN, but I don't believe I can use it for a magnum rifle, which is why I was thinking about the 9.3X64. My understanding is that the bolt face will need some work, but that's it.

I am thinking of a Springfield action in .30-06, mostly because it makes the most "sense" as a retirement piece. Matches perfectly the crossed rifles on my marksmanship badge. There's a bit of history there. I do want to play with a 220 grain. Very much the .30-03 round. Not a "long range" bit with the round nose, but... get closer. I do have some questions about using my FN action. Will save those for the gunsmithing sub-forum.

You’re welcome, no worries.
The commercial FN action that the Gunsmith (Dave Caboth, when he had a gun shop in Alaska) used for my mentioned .300 H&H was from a .270 caliber sporting rifle.
He had to replace the magazine box with a larger one, open the bolt face and slightly file open the action rails.

I believe he also milled out a notch in the forward ring, near the top, to facilitate loading live rounds,straight down into the magazine, especially with heavier / longer bullets.
He also may have had to cut off the forward action screw receptacle and re-weld it a little but further forward but, I no longer remember all the details.
That was approximately 20 years ago.
Sold it to pay off a Safari cost.

I too like 1903 Springfield rifles, having owned 3 uncut ones over my lifetime.
Wish I could’ve afforded to keep one of them.
But alas, they are also gone.

I had better cease and desist derailing this thread.
You are correct, more about rifles in an appropriate thread.
Cheers.

 

[VERNEY-CARRON COLLECTION]

Welcome to AH! Glad you found us and joined our community. Enjoy the site and have fun planning.

 

[TROPHY SHIPPERS]

Welcome to AH and the posting side! Great to have you here and we are looking forward to you sharing your stories!

 

[African Sporting Creations]

Welcome to this great forum! Enjoy the site!

 

[enysse]

Welcome to AH!