Effective range for a .375 H & H

BeeMaa

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Pick your soft: a-frames, partitions, or TTSX.

Pick your solid: mono metal solids with or without driving bands.

Done! I’ve yet to see a 375hh that shoots the good stuff above in 10” groups, yet shoots some other witches’ brew minute of angle. It’s all pretty good, and rifle and bullet type trump match grade nonsense every time....for Africa.
I agree with you...with the exception of the Nosler Partition for softs.
I would not consider an unchanged design from 1948 to be up to the standards of other premium ammunition.
I will not argue that it is a good design, with many dead animals to its credit.
However it is my opinion that it is not in the same class as the Swift A-Frame, Norma Oryx or Barnes TTSX/TSX and a few others.
 

rookhawk

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Only exception. I would use Woodleigh Hydro Solids instead of Barnes. The design of the tip of the Woodleigh creats a large diameter wound channel while still remaining an un-mushroomed and un-deformed solid with straight line penetration.

They are great bullets. They introduce a bit of a religious debate:

Heavy for caliber and "hang time" with controlled expansion kills.

Speed kills with additional shock, sheer, and hydrostatic cavitation.

In the end, both can be true. I'm late to the barnes dance, but have used them in small bore calibers and my kids have used them in .243 and 7x64 to very satisfactory results on deer, bear, and oryx.

On the opposite spectrum, I find the Swift A-Frame to be the ultimate controlled expansion round. 100% work as advertised, 100% of the time. (something I can't say about partitions, accubonds, ballistic tips, core-lokt, and all the others)

For solids, a solid is a solid as far as working well in this day and age. The hydros and their copies creating that cavitation is gravy that makes a solid "soft equivelant" when your elephant load needs to kill a kudu or bushbuck. They're terrific, no doubt. (my 375 load is A-Frame first shot, Hyrdo thereafter, for buffalo)

Good stuff.

Again, all bets are off on double rifles if you MUST use a particular bullet to get regulation, then you get what you get. But for magazine rifles? TTSX and A-Frames are the way to go for most applications.
 

rookhawk

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I agree with you...with the exception of the Nosler Partition for softs.
I would not consider an unchanged design from 1948 to be up to the standards of other premium ammunition.
I will not argue that it is a good design, with many dead animals to its credit.
However it is my opinion that it is not in the same class as the Swift A-Frame, Norma Oryx or Barnes TTSX/TSX and a few others.

Case and point:

Swift A-Frames. They always mushroom correctly. It's in their nature. 100%

Partitions "usually" work. Look at these recoveries. They jacket separated. They shredded. They worked. But randomization does occur.

While better in practice, Barnes TTSX should "usually" work but you're relying on the mechanical opening of the petals. If one petal breaks off, it may not work quite so perfectly. Still very good, but the mechanical opening of a barnes petal is less than 100% compared to the mushroom of an A-Frame that is guaranteed.

With random distribution of chance and failure to open as desired, I would prefer a controlled expansion mushroom to a mechanical opening feature of a partition or barnes on dangerous game. It's my preference. For plains game, I can see the flatter shooting of a barnes to be preferred over heavier partitions, and am on the fence on say 140gr 7mm barnes versus 175gr 7mm A-frame. (again, small bore comparisons)

To date, no failures with barnes. No failures with A-frames. Some failures with partition. The photo suggests why that may be the case.
IMG_1573.JPG
 

BeeMaa

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Personally I'm a huge fan of the SAF for my 375H&H and my wife's 270WIN.
My PH was delighted when that's all we showed up with.
Of the 10 animals on our safari these were the only ones recovered and given to me.
The proof is definitely in the pudding.
 

bruce moulds

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how do you define "effective range."?
one way might be to define a point blank range whereby the bullet rises and falls no more than +/- 3" from the line of sight.
this range will be longer than for a rise and fall of +/- 2".
is it to do with killing power?
if so we all know that guns are muck better killers up close than they are at say 300 yds (assuming suitable bullets).
are the bullets matched to the game?
a solid might kill some game less well than an expanding bullet, and vice versa.
a 300gn sierra boattail might kill some game better than a barnes or the opposite.
are you prepared to wind the elevation knob?
the 375 was used in Vietnam in bolt action rifles to sink sampans in the Mekong delta, but is such a setup suited to general hunting.?
how well can you shoot?
this has a big effect on effective range.
how big is the target species?
you need to be much closer to an elephant than an eland to kill with a 375.
bruce.
 

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A strange but true story: two years ago we were hunting black springbok. We'd been chasing this one band a good part of the day, back and forth, round and round as you know they do. It was getting late and we finally got close enough for a shot. I was carrying my 375HH loaded with Barnes 235 g TSX. This particular band had a real nice black one that I wanted. They finally stopped and were watching as we very carefully got out of the bakkie and set up. I asked Lammie to range me and he said it 265 yards. I was sighted in for 2 inches high at 100 so I was good. Took the shot and the springbok just stood there stock still. Lammie said, "I think you missed high." The tracker thought I hit him. We saw the dust fly up beyond him in line with a heart shot. All during this conversation which took about a minute that bok stood there. I was about to shoot again when he fell down. I guess he was dead on his feet and just didn't know he was supposed to fall down. The only thing we could figure was the shock of the bullet hit him so hard he locked up. When we got to him it was a perfect heart shot and a clean through and through. We couldn't see why it didn't just knock him over, big bullet on a small animal. Lammie said in all his years guiding he'd never seen anything like that and neither have I. I've seen animals hump up from a hit and stagger a step or two before going down but not freeze like that.
 

BeeMaa

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@BeeMaa I enjoyed inspecting your photo of the bullets. What were the distances of the various shots?
I took a full broadside shot at the Eland at a range of 100 yards and put it directly on the right shoulder.
The first shot destroys the right shoulder and is recovered in the left shoulder (see cooler picture).
The bull stumbles and I follow up with another shot as he runs away to his left side, I'm guessing 110-125 yards.
The second shot went into the left-side ribs and was recovered under the skin near the destroyed right shoulder.
I don't know which bullet is which, I didn't ask.
The first shot on the Oryx was broadside to the front left shoulder, lodging just below the skin on the opposite side ribs.
He runs to my left and away from us then falls. I reload and stay on him.
As he starts to get up, I place a follow up shot to the left ribs that stops just below the hide on the right shoulder, maybe 175-200 yards.
You can see the bulge of the second bullet below the skin just above the black "sock" on the front right leg.
Again, not sure which bullet is which.
 

Newboomer

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Nice trophies. By the way, what did your eland measure? He looks quite large in the headgear. Gemsbok no slouch either.
 

bruce moulds

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beemaa
your description of bullet travel in the game suggests very good shooting.
bruce.
 

BeeMaa

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beemaa
your description of bullet travel in the game suggests very good shooting.
bruce.
Thank you sir.
Wife and I were at the range every week for 18 months prior to the trip.
Picked it up to twice a week for the last month and a half.
Studied "The Perfect Shot Mini Edition for Africa II" for where to be aiming.
We have now upgraded to the full hard cover edition for our next trip.
Listened to our PH and did my best to put the shot where he said to.
Training paid off.
Nice trophies. By the way, what did your eland measure? He looks quite large in the headgear. Gemsbok no slouch either.
Appreciate the kind words however, I don't have the trophies back yet and I didn't put a tape on them when I was there.
I was more interested in getting mature (past their prime) animals than the bigger trophies.
The Eland was waaaaay past his prime and in a bachelor herd.
Horns were well worn down and a huge tuft between the eyes.
The Oryx, maybe not quite so much but our PH said he was getting there.
 

Newboomer

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That's what my PH told me on judging eland. The bigger the tuft, the older he is.
 

philip in china

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I suppose effective range should be one at which the bullet still has sufficient energy to expand and do the job.
 

colorado

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Not clear that a 375 caliber bullet needs to expand on smaller antelope, but it's good rule of thumb. My furthest shot so far with my 500 Jeffery was 225 yards on a cow elk with a 570g TSX. She didn't get up.
 

Forrest Halley

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the 375 was used in Vietnam in bolt action rifles to sink sampans in the Mekong delta, but is such a setup suited to general hunting.?
@bruce moulds could you please cite your source? I would like to read about this and any other stories of the .375 going to war.
 

bruce moulds

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forrest,
i cannot cite a source other than to say it was an american gun magazine like, but not necessarily, guns and ammo or such like.
the article with photos would have been late 60s /early 70s.
bruce.
 

Rob404

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I sight my 375HH at 200 meters with great accuracy I was using 300g Sierras and am now trying Swifts just to see if there is a touch more FPS and if the group will be even tighter. It also seem that my Whitworth likes Win 760 or 748 over the other powders I have tried
 

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Effective range of a 375 is first and foremost determined by the rifleman behind the stock. I have been to the local range and some of the folks there their effective range with anything is maybe 25 yards.. With the current scopes, range finders, and quality bullets the effective range in which the rifle is capable of hitting the kill zone, expanding and cleanly harvesting the animal in the hands of a competent rifleman/riflewoman is farther than I think most ethical shots should be taken. I have shot steel at 600 with my 375 and other rifles for fun. For hunting I limit my max range to 450 and prefer to stalk in as close as possible. in some places deserts and mountains come to mind it is virtually impossible to stalk to 50 yards. If I was planning on hunting those terrains I would develop the most accurate load with a premium bullet, sight in dead on at 200 and know the drops out to your ethical max range. and practice/verify allot before your safari and go have a great time
 

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