Advice on first Dangerous Game rifle

Discussion in '.375 & Up' started by Scrumbag, Aug 3, 2016.

  1. Scrumbag

    Scrumbag AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2016
    Messages:
    524
    Video/Photo:
    19
    Likes Received:
    254
    Member of:
    BASC, SCI
    Hunted:
    Europe
    Yes, a CZ or Zastava which has been "breathed-on" by a good 'smith seems a good option. Though I do have a thing for FN commericials so maybe speak to M. Dumoulin of Liege...
     

  2. Scrumbag

    Scrumbag AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2016
    Messages:
    524
    Video/Photo:
    19
    Likes Received:
    254
    Member of:
    BASC, SCI
    Hunted:
    Europe
    Well, have 7x64, 9.3x62...
     
    Milan, spike.t and Velo Dog like this.

  3. Scrumbag

    Scrumbag AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2016
    Messages:
    524
    Video/Photo:
    19
    Likes Received:
    254
    Member of:
    BASC, SCI
    Hunted:
    Europe
    Oh really? Now that does surprise me!
     

  4. Scrumbag

    Scrumbag AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2016
    Messages:
    524
    Video/Photo:
    19
    Likes Received:
    254
    Member of:
    BASC, SCI
    Hunted:
    Europe
    Now there's an idea... I must admit I have considered it as the barrel is a bit pitted (bought it that way). Is a lovely action, double round bridge FN Commercial. Only issue is not drilled and tapped. Does have a Rigby style peep on it though...
     

  5. Eddie P

    Eddie P AH Veteran

    Joined:
    May 22, 2016
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    32
    Pm me your number. I'll call you to discusd.
     

  6. Witold Krzyżanowski

    Witold Krzyżanowski AH ENABLER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2013
    Messages:
    4,551
    Video/Photo:
    15
    Likes Received:
    2,117
    Location:
    Trzebiatów
    Member of:
    1977; Polish Hunting Assotiation
    Hunted:
    Namibia, Zimbabwe
    7 x 57, 9,3 x 62 and 404Jeffery are legendary calibres. You know what is good.
    Witold
     
    Milan, Velo Dog and enysse like this.

  7. Witold Krzyżanowski

    Witold Krzyżanowski AH ENABLER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2013
    Messages:
    4,551
    Video/Photo:
    15
    Likes Received:
    2,117
    Location:
    Trzebiatów
    Member of:
    1977; Polish Hunting Assotiation
    Hunted:
    Namibia, Zimbabwe
    + 1
    Witold
     

  8. spike.t

    spike.t AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2013 AH Ambassador

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2010
    Messages:
    8,261
    Video/Photo:
    316
    Likes Received:
    5,421
    Member of:
    sci int, basc,wpaz
    Hunted:
    zambia, tanzania, zimbabwe,Mozambique ,hungary, france, england
    you have 2 great calibres there . just add a .416 Rigby or a .404 jeff depending on your desires, and you will be sorted for what your needs are. as i presume you know the Rigby folks ask Marc to see what .416 Rigbys he can find for you.
     
    bassasdaindia and Velo Dog like this.

  9. Velo Dog

    Velo Dog AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2014
    Messages:
    2,890
    Video/Photo:
    58
    Likes Received:
    4,110
    Location:
    Anchorage
    Member of:
    NRA Life Member.
    Hunted:
    South Africa 3 times, Namibia 2 times, USA - most western states including Alaska and Hawaii.
    Hello Scrumbag,

    I too am quite fond of the FN Commercial Model 98 Mauser.
    If your pitted barrel 9.3x62 is shooting well enough, in spite of the less than perfect bore, I definitely would just keep it as it is.
    Also, you mentioned that it was not drilled for scope bases but instead is equipped with Rigby "peep sight".
    Likewise, I'd just leave the sights as they are and bring it to Africa like that.

    Regarding your avaiable choices for a first dangerous game rifle, if you are only planning to use factory ammunition, I think I would select whichever suitable cartridge is commonly available where you live.
    That way you can practice enough to properly prepare for an African adventure.

    If you are a hand-loader, then I would probably choose the .404 Jeffery.
    This is presuming that live ammunition for it is as difficult to find where you are, as it is here where I am (Alaska).
    Once you acquire some brass cartridges, all that is at issue will be projectiles and presumably those are not as heavily regulated there as live ammunition is.
    (Mail order the projectiles, then powder and primers from local gun shop?)

    I own a .416 Rigby and am generally speaking, very happy with it.
    However, admittedly I hand-load it only to Pre-War .404 ballistics, because at full speed, the Rigby cartridge has very "sporting recoil" for a soft shouldered geezer like me.

    So, I am burning more powder than I would like (, just to duplicate what the .404 has always done with less.
    Therefore, if I had found a .404 rifle at an affordable price, I would have a .404 Jeffery instead of my otherwise excellent .416 Rigby (it is a somewhat Gunsmith modified CZ, Model 550 Magnum).

    Last but not least, I also have a .458 Lott that, is likewise based on the large and robust CZ Magnum action.
    And it is by all accounts, a very fine caliber for dangerous game (mine surely does kill the living daylights out of paper targets, here at my local rifle range).
    As with my .416, I load this one down a bit as well.
    Mine weighs about 11 pound, has a 23 inch barrel and dreaded "hog's-back" style walnut stock with Schnabel forend, aka; "Bavarian" style stock, aka: "South Africa Express" style stock, blah, blah, blah, snore.
    I have fired it quite a bit with 480 and 500 grain bullet (whichever I happen to get a good price on) at just a tic over 2100 feet per second.
    Recoil is stout but not brutal and accuracy is astounding on good days (when I'm not hung over - just kidding ... sort of).

    Loaded with 400 grain bullet, the Lott will shoot flat enough so that hitting targets at a bit over 200 meters is not difficult in the slightest.
    The cartridge is capable of 2400 fps with 400 grainers from said 23" barrel (but recoil begins to approach the "snappy" category, somewhere around the 2400 fps threshold).
    Fact is, with some focused practice, one can learn even the 500 grain 2100 fps trajectory surprisingly well, for hunting antelope and swine, somewhat beyond "dangerous game distances".

    Well anyway, at the end of the day, you can't go wrong if you ignore my tedious, rambling rant here and simply just do as Mr. Spike.T suggested.

    Cheers,
    Velo Dog.
     

  10. norfolk shooter

    norfolk shooter AH Elite

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2012
    Messages:
    1,055
    Video/Photo:
    9
    Likes Received:
    882
    Location:
    Norfolk, UK
    Member of:
    BASC
    Hunted:
    UK, Norfolk, Cambridgeshire, Dumfries and Galloway (Scotland). RSA, North West, Kalahari, Limpopo
    Mate John Taylor said this about the 375 H&H

    Undoubtedly one of the deadliest weapons in existence. I've had five of these rifles—two doubles and three magazines—and have fired more than 5,000 rounds of .375 Magnum ammunition at game. One of them accounted for more than 100 elephant and some 411 buffalo, besides rhino, lions and lesser game.

    With the correct bullet you can take anything with this round. Now if your 9.3 has a rigby type peep sight you've got it made have the thing re-barrelled and use it the way god intended! With open sights as a 375 H&H!!
     
    sierraone and Rob404 like this.

  11. spike.t

    spike.t AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2013 AH Ambassador

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2010
    Messages:
    8,261
    Video/Photo:
    316
    Likes Received:
    5,421
    Member of:
    sci int, basc,wpaz
    Hunted:
    zambia, tanzania, zimbabwe,Mozambique ,hungary, france, england
    :E Nono:.....one must not screw up a perfectly good 9.3x62 (y) especially to make it into one of those .375 things!!.......;)
     

  12. norfolk shooter

    norfolk shooter AH Elite

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2012
    Messages:
    1,055
    Video/Photo:
    9
    Likes Received:
    882
    Location:
    Norfolk, UK
    Member of:
    BASC
    Hunted:
    UK, Norfolk, Cambridgeshire, Dumfries and Galloway (Scotland). RSA, North West, Kalahari, Limpopo
    then I recommend a 375 thing as a bolt or a double
     
    sierraone likes this.

  13. IronCowboy

    IronCowboy AH Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2014
    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    63
    Location:
    Kansas
    Personally, considering your list, I'd pick the .458WM, easily persuaded to change that to a Lott, or a .416 Rigby. I own or have owned most of them on your list, and right now what I call my own are a .458WM and a .416 Rigby (also a .416 Ruger and a .375 H&H grace my safes, but those are my wife's rifles).

    Agreed here. The two are close enough, you don't NEED both. Nothing wrong with WANTING both though. I do agree, in general, even though the 375H&H handles itself a lot better than it should, there's a real difference between a big bore and a mid bore. My wife just picked up a .375 H&H, my third in the cartridge.

    I've never done so myself, but if I were ever contemplating a 1 gun Safari, it would be a .375 H&H (MAYBE MAYBE a .416Rig). I could easily be persuaded to cast vote for the .375H&H as the idea lion and great bear cartridge (although the bigger calibers do have stopping power advantage, but the .375H&H has more than plenty on these game).

    I haven't owned one, but I've shot one a bit. Fine cartridge, and seems to have a lot of popularity right now (retro revival?). The benefit of a "standard length action" might be over-hyped. Some makers will drop it into a magnum length action any way (same issue with .458WM too), and in honesty, the extra weight and size of a magnum action is pretty welcomed (by me at least) in DGR's to help tame the recoil. The balancing between a magnum and a standard long action isn't as different as it is for a long vs. a short either - given similar stocks and barrels, of course.

    Like many, the Rigby is a personal favorite. Some classify the .416's as "mid-bores," in their minds starting 'big bore' as anything over 45caliber. I might love the idea of 500grns as a tipping point, and LOVE seeing big calibers at the beginning of cartridges, but considering it's capabilities and recoil, the .416 Rigby is a contender among any peers. I have taken 3 bison and an Argentine water buffalo with a .416Rig, have yet to recover a bullet, and have yet to have received argument from game hit with it.

    As others mentioned, the horror stories were true, but they ARE also exaggerated, and with modern smokeless powders, they're irrelevant. I think the .458WM loses the popularity contests in many circles because of it's designed intent - it's a "poor man's .470NE." I could agree with the argument some might make to say the .458wm "ruined" safari hunting - Dangerous Game rifles before the .458wm, and African Safari's as a whole, were very different - namely, they were largely Eurpoean, and very expensive. The .458WM could effectively hunt the same game, but in a much less expensive package, and a lot of folks didn't care to see "budget Safari's" become so mainstream - if everyone can do it, then it's not as elite or exotic as it once was.

    My first DGR was a .458wm. Buying into all of the hype, and especially trusting the advice of a hunter I had known to have been across a handful of times which said - "the .458wm is a great lion rifle, but for the heavy game, it's just not enough." So I had my 458wm reamed to .458Lott. Unfortunately, I was underwhelmed with the gains. Given the chance again, I would not do the same. I later purchased another .458Lott, then had difficulties feeding it, so I sold it off. I'm now back to a .458WM (although I do have an action for .458Lott project rifle on my shelf).

    If you run a .458win mag at .458Lott pressure (which you CAN do), it ends up within a hundred to two hundred feet per second of the Lott with the same bullet. As I mentioned above, I regret having my first .458WM reamed to accept the Lott - it was a solution where a problem didn't exist. I now own a .458WM, and have a .458Lott project sitting on my bench. Between the two, I don't bat an eye at the difference - no game animal will be able to tell the difference if either bullet is placed well.

    I WILL build myself a .505 Gibbs someday. Probably be 2018, based on my current projects, but I WILL build one. Probably a CZ when I do. I've yet to have a DGR which starts with a 5...

    Place holder
     
    enysse and Scrumbag like this.

  14. BobT

    BobT AH Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2015
    Messages:
    465
    Video/Photo:
    45
    Likes Received:
    482
    Location:
    Missouri Ozarks
    Hunted:
    Tanzania
    I was facing the same decision as you a while back, looking for a DG rifle and I already had a nice 9,3x62 that I really like. I decided to take a realistic look at what I thought I needed for the animals I plan to hunt. Unless I have a cash windfall or it gets much less expensive I will probably never hunt elephant so the cape buffalo is most likely the largest critter I will shoot. I took a long hard look at the .404 and may still get one at some point but not right now. I decided on the .375 H&H as my 9,3 isn't legal everywhere for dangerous game but the .375 is legal anywhere. Since I started shooting the .375 I have not regretted the choice and feel it pairs well with my 9,3. both are great shooting rifles. Ammo was not really a factor in my decision since there is none in this area for any of the big bores, or the 9,3x62 either for that matter. I'm a handloader so I only have to get brass and bullets and I'm in business and there isn't much difference in the cost of hand loaded ammo . Bsst of luck with your decision!
     

  15. Scrumbag

    Scrumbag AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2016
    Messages:
    524
    Video/Photo:
    19
    Likes Received:
    254
    Member of:
    BASC, SCI
    Hunted:
    Europe
    Interesting opinions on converting (or not) the 9.3x62 ;)
     

  16. BobT

    BobT AH Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2015
    Messages:
    465
    Video/Photo:
    45
    Likes Received:
    482
    Location:
    Missouri Ozarks
    Hunted:
    Tanzania
    I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiments above!
     
    PeteG likes this.

  17. Scrumbag

    Scrumbag AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2016
    Messages:
    524
    Video/Photo:
    19
    Likes Received:
    254
    Member of:
    BASC, SCI
    Hunted:
    Europe
    I'm starting to get the idea fellas...
     

  18. Jimbob

    Jimbob AH Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2014
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    116
    Location:
    England

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 9, 2016

  19. Scrumbag

    Scrumbag AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2016
    Messages:
    524
    Video/Photo:
    19
    Likes Received:
    254
    Member of:
    BASC, SCI
    Hunted:
    Europe
    Jimbob, in the beginning, God created Paul Mauser and he came up with the ultimate repeating rifle...
     

  20. Jimbob

    Jimbob AH Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2014
    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    116
    Location:
    England
    But Zeus created John Farquharson first...
     

Share This Page

 
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice