375H&H Mag 300gr Nosler Partition...surpassed?

I am more interested in what happens at the margins of performance, when things don't totally work out. Just seems like the Nosler partition always gives good performance. Highly reliable.

Hmm, the other thing is my range closed down 20 years ago, and there is nothing I can use on a regular basis that allows me to muck around with bullets and loads the way I used to. I can shoot on my own property, but I can't do load development for lots of choices, without driving the neighbours out of their minds. If I wasn't by-coastal, I would join a range, but I just don't have the time. Lack of range time has lead me to try to keep things pretty simple. It is actually a pretty big driver these days.
 
My wife and I have been talking about a DG hunt after the trip we already have planned.
If this does happen, a 416Rigby or 458 (undecided which one) would grace a spot in the safe.
I will be shooting friends rifles in these calibers to see which one I am capable of accurately shooting comfortably.

Giraffe is another one for my second trip wish list and it seems like the caliber selection is all over the board.
Again, is the 375H&H Mag with 300gr PT a good choice, or is it closer to the low end of caliber selection?

It just seems like the Nosler PT (developed in 1948), although very good and proven time and time again, has been surpassed by more modern designs.
That is my real question, more specifically for the 375H&H Mag.

Thank you very much for your insights so far.
Giraffe are no problem with yrds of neck ....took mine with a 300 win mag 180gr soft points

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For me, my giraffe was an expensive piece of conservation, and I chose to use the very best bullet possible that had the least chance of failure. I shot him on the walk at 120m.

Thank you all so much for your contributions, except you BenKK...the very best bullet possible is....
 
Thank you all so much for your contributions, except you BenKK...the very best bullet possible is....

Oh, sorry! I can see how that reads. I meant to say that it is the best bullet available to me. I know there are others the equal of it, but Hydros are available where I live. I didn’t intend to make such a broad statement, as usually I try to avoid that sort of thing. Cheers!
 
For .375H&H, I had ready access to Woodleigh’s standard 300 grain bullet (which I never used), their Heavy Duty 300 grain bullet (which was magnificent), their 300 grain FMJ (which was fine, but I did once snap a Woodleigh 410 grain FMJ in half - and yes, the buffalo went straight down), and their 300 grain Hydro (which is an incredible design and devastating, but expensive).
 
I’ve used nosler partions on 95% of the North American animals I’ve taken, including moose and caribou. And that was with my 270. Growing up my 270 was my third arm in the field, I killed game from 100-450 yards with it. But my point being yes nosler will work just fine. IMO if hunting DG as I did I would absolutely use Swift A frames in my gun again. Absolutely devastating.
 
I’ve used nosler partions on 95% of the North American animals I’ve taken, including moose and caribou. And that was with my 270. Growing up my 270 was my third arm in the field, I killed game from 100-450 yards with it. But my point being yes nosler will work just fine. IMO if hunting DG as I did I would absolutely use Swift A frames in my gun again. Absolutely devastating.
Would it be fair to say that the Nosler Partition and Swift A-Frame are a very close comparison?
From looking and reading about the bullet designs, they seem very similar to me (please correct me if I'm mistaken).

Obviously you didn't use the 270 for your DG hunt so there are at least two rifles in play here, and therefore two bullets.
If this is the case, why switch from the success you had with Nosler PT's to the Swift A-Frame for your DG softs?
Maybe better for thick hide penetration?
Recommendation of your PH?

On a side note - What DG did you hunt and with what caliber?
 
Would it be fair to say that the Nosler Partition and Swift A-Frame are a very close comparison?
From looking and reading about the bullet designs, they seem very similar to me (please correct me if I'm mistaken).

NP and Swift A-frame are not a very close comparison.

NP has a non bonded core and is the same bullet technology as 65 years ago. It expands more rapidly and looses most of the front section on harder game. Yes it will hammer PG with good shot placement but is not in the same premium grade class as Swift A-frame for DG.

I would not recommend it for DG.

When comparing the NP to the Swift A-frame, the A-frame is far superior on African DG.

Use a Swift A-frame.
 
NP and Swift A-frame are not a very close comparison.

NP has a non bonded core and is the same bullet technology as 65 years ago. It expands more rapidly and looses most of the front section on harder game. Yes it will hammer PG with good shot placement but is not in the same premium grade class as Swift A-frame for DG.

I would not recommend it for DG.

When comparing the NP to the Swift A-frame, the A-frame is far superior on African DG.

Use a Swift A-frame.
Thank you for the clarification, I didn't realize the Nosler wasn't bonded.

So in your professional (I read in another post that you are a PH) opinion, the Swift A-Frame is a superior bullet for DG and PG.
Have you witnessed failures of the Nosler PT with marginal shot placement vs. the Swift A-Frame?
 
Thank you for the clarification, I didn't realize the Nosler wasn't bonded.

So in your professional (I read in another post that you are a PH) opinion, the Swift A-Frame is a superior bullet for DG and PG.
Have you witnessed failures of the Nosler PT with marginal shot placement vs. the Swift A-Frame?

Yes and Yes.
 
Would it be fair to say that the Nosler Partition and Swift A-Frame are a very close comparison?
From looking and reading about the bullet designs, they seem very similar to me (please correct me if I'm mistaken).

Obviously you didn't use the 270 for your DG hunt so there are at least two rifles in play here, and therefore two bullets.
If this is the case, why switch from the success you had with Nosler PT's to the Swift A-Frame for your DG softs?
Maybe better for thick hide penetration?
Recommendation of your PH?

On a side note - What DG did you hunt and with what caliber?
No comparison at all. Like apples and oranges. Swift A frames are the bullet of choice for many Ph's in Africa for game like buffalo. While researching for bullet choice in my 375 Ruger the overwhelming opinion was Swift A frames backed by good solids. I used Northfork solids which shot well in my gun. Swift A frames cause devastating damage to DG providing you place your shot properly. No bullet in the world will overcome a poorly placed shot. I would without question recommend Nosler partions for PG or Barnes ttsx ammo. Both will do the job quite well with a well placed bullet.
 
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In truth the NP and the A-Frame are a similar design, the difference is in their construction. In the A-Frame the lead core is bonded to the jacket, the NP uses "cup and core" construction. I like to use a 250 grn NP in my 35 Whelen for PG, even if the lead core separates from the jacket I still have 165+ grains remaining in the rear shank for straight line penetration. Bad angles, big bones and bad attitudes require the best bullets you can get, in its day the NP was the best, today's hunters have better bullets available so why not use them. The NP is the original premium bullet and is still a great choice for PG but for DG I would use an A-Frame or a TBBC.
 
Thank you for the clarification, I didn't realize the Nosler wasn't bonded.

So in your professional (I read in another post that you are a PH) opinion, the Swift A-Frame is a superior bullet for DG and PG.
Have you witnessed failures of the Nosler PT with marginal shot placement vs. the Swift A-Frame?

A small point of clarification. The Partition isn't failing when it sheds it's frontal portion of lead. That is by design. Mr. Nosler realized he needed a bullet that retained at least some portion of mass and with it maintained enough momentum to achieve sufficient penetration into the vitals to kill the animal. And he designed a bullet that did this. It was a great step forward in bullet technology at that time.

The 300gr Partition I would expect to work great on PG. And having some solids for the little guys is also a good idea if you're planning on having those animals mounted.

But on DG there are better choices than the Partition. If maintaining at least 50% of the bullets weight and with it momentum to achieve better penetration is a good idea, then the ability to retain 90% or more of the bullets mass and the mushroom shape is an even better idea in my opinion. This is what you get with the A-Frames, North Fork bonded cores and the mono-metal bullets from Barnes, Peregrine and GS Custom bullets.

At least some of these bullets are available in factory loaded ammunition while others are not. However there are a number of custom ammunition makers out there. They will develop a load for your rifle just as I would do for my own rifles as a hand loader. If you can't find a factory round that shoots well in your rifle or you prefer one of the other bullets that isn't factory loaded, that is an alternative you can take advantage of.
 
Thank you all for your input on the Nosler PT vs Swift A-Frame, PG vs DG. I have a lot to digest.
For the moment, I have several (45-50 rounds) of the PT's left, but I am going to buy a box of Swift A-Frame 300gr and see how they shoot.
After that experiment, I'll make a decision.
If the A-Frames don't like my gun, I look into the Barnes TSX, Norma Oryx or maybe the Federal TBBC.

Just for clarification, the Nosler PT would be fine for PG but most of you would recommend the A-Frame over the Nosler PT.
For DG, use A-Frame with some type of solid to back it up (Swift, Woodleigh, Barnes, Nosler, Norma or Hornady).
Took out North Fork, Peregrine and GS Custom bullets, because they are only sold as components for reloading.
Also for DG, I will bring a larger caliber, probably 416 Rigby.
No such thing as too dead.
 
Took out North Fork, Peregrine and GS Custom bullets, because they are only sold as components for reloading.
Also for DG, I will bring a larger caliber, probably 416 Rigby.
No such thing as too dead.

As I mentioned, there are custom ammo guys out there that will develop a load for you using whatever bullet you want. You're going to spend a lot of money on a DG hunt and looks like also another rifle. Remember, it's the bullet that does all the heavy lifting. If it takes a little more money to get a load that works well with your rifle, I think it's worth it. Especially when big bore DG factory ammo can run $200 a box.

@johnnyblues can steer you to the one he used.
 
As I mentioned, there are custom ammo guys out there that will develop a load for you using whatever bullet you want. You're going to spend a lot of money on a DG hunt and looks like also another rifle. Remember, it's the bullet that does all the heavy lifting. If it takes a little more money to get a load that works well with your rifle, I think it's worth it. Especially when big bore DG factory ammo can run $200 a box.

@johnnyblues can steer you to the one he used.
I used Superior ammo out of North Carolina. They will send you a "test box" of different powder/primer combos for the caliber of your choice. Once you see which shoots best ( they are color coded) they can load a box.
 
Nothing wrong with the old nosler partitions I have killed a ton of game in the day with them from deer to moose. As stated they are not a bonded bullet what happens with a NP is the soft lead frontal section will fragment out into the animal and do a lot of shallower wound damage and the 2nd section of the bullet will penetrate deeply but that penetration WILL NOT BE STRAIGHT LINE as the bullet will be deformed and tend to keyhole penetrate. All that works to your benefit and does lots of internal damage to the critters.
Bonded bullets tend to stay in one piece better and penetrate more straight line.
Heavily jacketed bonded bullets like A frames mushroom, stay in one piece and penetrate very deeply in a more straight line aka good for DG killing.
That said for nonDG you are good to go! have fun shoot straight, post pics:)
 
Thanks for the shot of confidence in the Nosler PT Buckdog.
I'm still going to see how the A-Frames shoot, just to make me feel better.
I'm also going to email my PH and see what he has to say on the subject.
Have some bigger animals on the list including Kudu, Sable, Eland and the ever tough Zebra...so I will want his thoughts.
 
Ah, the Partition's early answer to the old expansion vs. penetration question... (because this is what we are discussing ;-)

About 30 years ago, I came to realize that I did not have the time to hand load, but I wanted better bullets than the usual "power point," "core lokt," or such, with which there actually WERE genuine bullet failures. So I developed the basic rule of thumb of hunting exclusively with Federal Premium and Weatherby factory ammo, which used to be unique in the market and truly the precursor of premium factory ammo in as much as they were loaded with Nosler Partitions, the premium bullet before "premium" bullets existed. Further, I ended up making the rule of always using the heaviest Partition available to get both rapid & reliable expansion of the front core AND deep penetration of the heavier rear core.

This served me well, and continues to serve me well, on all sorts of game, in all sorts of places, at all sorts of distances with 6 mm Rem 100 gr; .270 Win 150 gr; 7x64 160 gr; 7 mm Rem Mag 160 gr; .300 Win Mag 180 gr; .300 Wby 200 gr; .338 Win Mag 250 gr; .340 Wby 250 gr; .375 H&H 300 gr. The lone exception to the "heaviest bullet rule" was to add the 150 gr Partition load to the .300 Wby when it finally dawned on me (duh!) that it is actually 2 guns-in-one with the 150 gr and 200 gr loads.

The Partition is not the new kid on the block anymore, it is not as fashionable as it used to be, and it is not the darling of the gun writers or guides or PHs as it used to, it is not sexy any longer, but make no mistake, it kills just as well today as it did 30 years ago.

Cut an A Frame and a Partition lengthwise, and the obvious resemblance is hard to deny. An A Frame is a Partition with a thicker front jacket and a bonded front core (I am almost tempted to add: period). As a result, the A Frame drives deeper but expands less. On the pro side it is useful on quartering shots on larger animals, as it gets you to the vitals more reliably. On the con side, a lot of the A Frame energy often gets expanded ... on the landscape after punching through with a classic lung shot on smaller animals. I like an exit wound as much as the next guy, no challenge here, but I also like the havoc that the Partition wrecks when it "loses" its front core in the vitals, which as @PHOENIX PHIL rightly observed is not a failure but by design. The one thing I like in the A Frame is that because it retains its front core more, you can select a lighter bullet to have the same penetration a heavier Partition would after it sheds its front core (i.e. a 270 gr. .375 instead of a .300), but - there ain't free lunch - you will get less expansion. Some folks prefer the flatter trajectory and lesser recoil you get from the lighter slug. I personally was never really annoyed by recoil, and prefer heavier slugs that retain their flight path further, with the added benefit in the case of the Partition of delivering more expansion.

The Partition was a pioneer because it was the first to provide an "all of the above" answer to the question: do you want penetration (solid-like) or expansion (soft nose-like). Everything since then, from A Frame to expanding mono-metal slugs (e.g. Barnes) is providing its own variation of the same answer to the same question. I tend to not see a universal answer, but a buffet type of situation. For example: 200 lbs white tail deer? Prefer Partition. 1,200 Eland? Prefer A Frame. Quartering following shots on a running away buff? Prefer TSX (or good old-fashion solid). Etc.

The one MAJOR thing that seems to be often missed in this discussion is the issue of material. Here in Arizona, lead core bullets are now illegal to shoot in Condor areas. THAT is a unique differentiating characteristic for Barnes etc. Never saw a TSX do anything I did not feel 100% confident a Partition would not do, but a Partition sure does not qualify in lead-free areas... And if you have ever seen a radiography of a lead bullet fragmentation/vaporization in an animal shoulder, you kind of shake your head at feeding it to the grand kids. Us old folks are too far gone to care about lead ingestion anymore, but reportedly we should avoid it with the youngsters...
 
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One day... excellent post and summary about the NP!

And yes, I've looked at many radiographic/flouroscopic images of the tissue surrounding the track of expanding, lead core bullets and yes it gives me pause about eating it! Bright image "cloud" of microscopic and larger lead frags surrounding the track- the affected area in many instances being ovoid in shape and about 10-12 inches in diameter- yummy
 
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