Discussion in 'Firearms & Ammunition' started by RedSnake, Apr 9, 2018.
Custom barrel or factory?
Glad to be of help. Now go kill something.
Any of the before mentioned bullets can get the job done. I have been learning/shooting long range the past 6 yrs. There is a pro and con to each of the bullets out there. So what we strive to do is find what is the best for the situation we are hunting in. It is unlikely that your PH will want/allow you to shoot past 300 yds unless you are hunting with a company that has done some of that in the past. That tends to negate the advantages of the Berger. Bergers open up and may drop your animals the fastest of any...
There have been some issues of partitions losing their tips when impacting at higher velocities. A good bullet, but perhaps not the best. The A frames a a good bullet. Perhaps a little "harder" bullet. Not a bad thing when pushed fast in your .30 Nosler. Of the 2 you mentioned I'd probably go with it.
My last trip I have used Accubonds and have had very good luck with them. Another consideration is the Barnes TTSX. Brickburn has gone almost exclusively to them if I'm not mistaken. They need to be pushed fast to get the best out of them. Size down to about 165 gr in the .30 Nosler. They will go all the way through and kill animals very well.
In the AB's or A frames I'd go to the 200's and make sure you know your drops out to 400 or so yds. Like mentioned above they will all work. Put them in the right place and the animal will die. Check and see which weights give you the best accuracy and confidence. Confidence in your rifle is very important.
This will be my first safari. I love Begers and have a load that shoots in the .2-.3’s that’ll push a 215 Hybrid at 3000+
However, I’ve heard it said that some folks have not had good experiences with the bergers on PG. I was also told by the PH they prefer NP/AFrames or Barnes.
I won't use a Berger, and I'll let Hogpatrol decide to which group I belong. It is irrelevant to me because what I do believe is that a well constructed bullet with a suitable BC will drive deep and true without the necessity of any gimmicks. The A-Frame will do that with absolute consistency at any range you will be allowed to take a shot in the area you will be hunting. Moreover, with such a bullet you also will never ever have a PH second guessing your choice.
So let's be serious for a moment! Exclude DG! I don't know if there is a bad bullet on the market today. More important is the person shooting. Put any current bullet meant for medium size animals thru the lungs or heart and it will die!!and although I pretty much bleed NP I do try others. Barnes out to 300yds work great. Any monumental relies on speed to perform. Also I have not had one that did not foul. I use them exclusively in 2 325/8mm calibers and one 35 caliber as they are the most accurate. One 8mm mag I was about to throw in the trash as I could not make it shoot with anything and now shoots .75 with 180gr. TSX. But I would suggest you drop one weight for your caliber ie. 180/165 165/150 etc. I have shot 20+ animals with
Accubonds of various calibers. Mostly Deer and pigs and 1 Elk. Have been happy with the consistency of performance. Too rapid expansion 1 time and not enough expansion the next. And these were repeat performances with the same distance and bullet placement. Yes Hog I have stooped to trying Berger. I am not a long distance shooter so all my trials were at 400 yds or less.
Too much expansion and too much fouling. Again
I belive if you put the bullet where it belongs the animal will die!!
They'll destroy a lot of money, er meat at close range and most outfits don't want unknown hunters shooting anything beyond 200 yds. Why? They've seen too many bad shots and they don't know your skill set for longer ranges. Reading these forums for a while, I would not lump MOST of the guys posting on this site but I've seen some pretty bad shooting by people that believe they can spend umpteen hundreds or thousands of dollars on a rifle & scope and have it magically transfer it's capabilities to their hands without practicing or developing good reloads.
Two things I will add. If you want to shoot accubonds I would move up a weight. ie 165/180 180/200. Also also all the PH's I have talked to and or hunted with are happy with NP, TSX or A Frame. And most all shy away form Berger or long distance shooting.
Agree, and yes, PG, not DG. Put 'em in the boiler room and it's all over but the transport. It's all in what your mission will be and as others have posted, most PHs don't want guys with unknown skills shooting much past 200 yards and any of the bullets mentioned will work if placed properly. With regards to the Bergers, I found they actually shoot better the further out you go. My .28 Nosler holds 1 moa at 100 and the same load, same conditions, .5 moa at 500. I stretched my first 28 out to 1000 yds. and put five shots in eight inches, turret set for a 19.25 moa holdover and no, I'm not doing that every day. I will say the VLDs can be sensitive to seating depth but the hybrids and classic hunters have a little more leeway. One reason I like the Bergers is a high BC and reduced wind drift at longer ranges, something the old style, fat bullets can't match.
I have rifles with factory barrels(Rem, Ruger, Savage, Tikka) and a couple with Custom barrels(Douglas). I have different cartridges I load for Swift and Barnes bullets.
If you do the super clean then no problems shooting Swift or Barnes bullets. The trouble comes when you shoot a copper-alloy jacketed bullets before shooting the pure copper jacketed and complete bullets.
The Nosler Partition bullets WERE designed to shed the front core all along. That is not an "issue" with them. The rest of the bullets was designed to keep penetrating. They work well and have always done so. That said I prefer the A-Frames when pushed to faster speeds. I have also used them in more mild cartridges with excellent results. The A-Frames are a bonded core so they retain much more front lead and make a larger classic mushroom.
Berger fan here . Shooting 195s in my 28 nosler and have taken them out to 1400 yards . They fly well. I don’t have any long range kills with them yet , so that is yet to be determined .
This is 5 shots at 200 yards with the 195 bergers.
Here is a nosler partition 180 gr from a 300 win that took at Bear at 20 feet . Max velocity and I still found the bullet stuck up against the skin .
I have hunted the East Cape twice, Namibia once,cull hunt on Zebra and Gemsbok, I have used the Nosler Accubond 180'gr , 507 BC, in a 30 06 at 2780 fps. Mostly pass thru out to 300 yds and all (40 plus) animals taken ran no more than 50 yds after being shot, lung or heart. All were shot and recovered with one shot. Including wildebeast, down to duiker, including 7 zebra, 15 gemsbok, 12 Hartebeast and 5 Hogs. My son has taken a like number using a 30 06 and 168 Barnes at 2825 fps without a problem. Whatever shoots well and you are confident with the accuracy of your rfle ....you will be fine. My accuracy has been the best with Accubonds and Barnes, just seat both OFF the lands by at least .050 for accuracy and yes if using Barnes scrub that barrel clean of Copper before you shoot the Barnes..start with a copper free barrel for the best accuracy. TTSX recommended.
I just came back from my first trip to Africa. I used 215 Berger out of a 300 Win Mag at 2930 fps. I shot 2 Impalas, 1 Blesbuck, 1 Wildebeest and an Eland. I did not plan on the Eland. First shot on the Eland was a frontal. Second was a mid shoulder shot which slowed him up some. My PH and I were able to get in front of him. I was able to put one in the crease and dropped him like a ton of bricks. When the open the Eland the frontal did not penitrate enough. On the wildebeest I hit it a little to far back. I was able to anchor it with a Teaxas heart shot. When they opened him up it looked like you took a trash can of blood and dump it upside down. It clipped a lung and destroyed most of the organs. I could not believe he did not bleed at all. My PH and the others from the same group do not like Bergers of any kind in any cartridge. They said they don’t see consistency with the larger plains game. They like Barnes and Swift’s. I did not loose any animals. I did not shoot past 350. My next trip. I mite try another bullet. They worked well on the smaller game.
Shooting those short ranges at large animals, the bonded bullets work better. How close was the elan?
Aside from that, bad hits and multiple shots on any animal are not the fault of the bullet. BTDT.
I would say the a frames as my 300 loves 200 grain and I have used them down in the east cape. Since you may need to reach out to 300yds on the oryx or kudu the 200 will still be ok. I have never used the 180 but would over the nolser which my gun does not like at all.
I have had great luck with 180 barnes ttsx and it maybe be a better overall bullet if the shots get longer
Redsnake, I believe your question was “180 or 200 in NP or A-frame”?
I’ve taken my share of game with NP 180s out of the 30-06 and 300WM, but I prefer the 200gr in weight class and the Swift A-frame in design. I try to hunt closer (after all it is hunting and not just shooting and I love the sneak) with the exception of pronghorn antelope which I rarely can get closer than 250 yards!
Which ever shoots best, ie around 1 MOA off the bench, in your rifle will get the job done at a reasonable distance.
The more critical question in my mind is how far you can accurately shoot off sticks within 4-5 seconds. My limited experience tells me mastering this is the key to Africa PG hunting more than the cartridge, bullet weight and bullet design.
Personally I like my 375 H&H when going to Africa. Go more and decide for yourself just what works for you and your style.
Best of luck! Your going to have a grand time!
@BillC. You brought up a good point. Rifles like what they like. Some bullets work, some don't. All my rifles are custom with aftermarket barrels set up with twists suited for a specific weight range of bullets. In all of them, I've never found ANY Barnes bullet that shoots better than say Sierras, Noslers, Bergers, Hornadys and such. I tried the Swift Sciroccos and A-Frames and couldn't get them to shoot the best either. Dead horse beaten to death, it's the complete package, rifle, bullets, shooter skill, and shot placement that takes game.
im sure ill catch flack from the barnes guys, but i hate them. ive never gotten them to run well in 3-4 different rifles and, their BCs are horrific. only barnes i run now are 300gr ttsx in a 458 socom ar platform . only bullet that seems to run great in anything i try it in is hornady eld and eldx. both give sub .5 moa in a few different rifles
About 70 yards
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