.30-06 and 165gr Bullets, what powder?

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by PHOENIX PHIL, Jun 21, 2015.

  1. jduckhunter

    jduckhunter AH Fanatic

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    Awe, the boring repeatable accuracy of IMR 4350 in a 30-06 with 165 gr bullets. I took my 30-06 Guide Gun to the range yesterday (along with a few other guns) and fired a whole 3 shots out of it. Two at 200 yds and one at 300 yds. It shot 2 3/4" high at 200 and hit 3 3/4" low at 300, just like the ballistic calculator said it would. Boring...Not!
     
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  2. PHOENIX PHIL

    PHOENIX PHIL AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    Sometimes boring is good.
     

  3. jduckhunter

    jduckhunter AH Fanatic

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    Good and very satisfying.
     

  4. Ray B

    Ray B AH Elite

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    With the 165 gr I preferred IMR4320. Faster than 4350 and slower than Varget & 4064- just right for the 165.
     

  5. siml

    siml AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    @PHOENIX PHIL , just a little off the topic, have you tried 220 grain bullets on the 30-06? I was impressed with the performance.
     
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  6. PHOENIX PHIL

    PHOENIX PHIL AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    Nope, this rifle and it's load is being developed for my wife to use. Got her up to .308 Win recoil using same weight bullet. Will get her to .30-06 soon enough and will stay there for awhile.
     

  7. Ray B

    Ray B AH Elite

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    When they were available I used so Barnes .032" jacketed bullets in 225 gr, but they showed no advantage. If I needed that much impact I was better off using a 338/06 or a 338 win Mag.
     

  8. siml

    siml AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    @Ray B , we aren't that fortunate in Mozambique to be able to just change rifles. Thus the 220 grain soft point was a good for us in regards to the 30-06. Last client shot 3 sable with 220 grain and not one went further than 5 yards. Out of all the rifles I have had clients hunt with, 338wm, I have seen the most wounded and lost animals. Even my trackers shake their heads when they see a 338wm, they know they in for plenty walking, I am not blaming the gun, but that is the experience we have had.
     
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  9. Pheroze

    Pheroze AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    I believe @Velo Dog has very positive things to say about the 220gr in '06. I recall reading his accounts on another thread.
     
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  10. Ridgewalker

    Ridgewalker AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    Many years ago the "American Rifleman" had some ultra-light plinking loads which I have used for years even on grouse, turkeys, rabbits, bobcat, etc. they are excellent to plink and practice/teach proper gun control with.
    30-06
    100-110 gr bullet
    14.0 700x "Shooting Times" Feb '85
    Or
    10.0 Unique 1,990 fps "American Rfleman" Oct '87
    This is what I've used to teach grandkids how to not be afraid of recoil nor muzzle blast.
    Then you can work up to 165 gr via 125 or 130 gr starting loads which are light recoiling especially if you use Hodgdons recommendations of 60% of max of H4895 and up to max.

    Just my thoughts and experiences.
    Good luck!
     
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  11. Ray B

    Ray B AH Elite

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    Given the limitation of rifle selection and needing to have one rifle meet several needs, the 30-06 loaded with the previously mentioned Barnes .032" copper jacket/lead core bullets with muzzle velocity about 2400 fps would perform well in situation where a soft point bullet is wanted in conjunction with very deep penetration. The 250 gr Round Nose would even be better except that with the 30-06 the velocity has dropped to the point of making it a short range rifle. Both bullets are about the same length as the old Winchester 220s, so stabilizing, at least at the effective range was not a problem. I never see Barnes advertising them anymore, so they may have been discontinued in favor of their no-lead bullets- if so, such the pity.
     
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  12. PHOENIX PHIL

    PHOENIX PHIL AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    My son killed an Eland bull with his .308 Win using 165gr North Forks. First shot was in the boiler room and was fatal no question. Prudence and respect for the animal dictated to add finishing shots. But given a few more moments following the first shot I'm quite convinced that the bull which was still standing close to where he was on the first shot would've eventually layed down and died.

    My wife's rifle will be shooting the same bullets but with .30-06 velocity so I'm not too concerned.
     

  13. Velo Dog

    Velo Dog AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Hi Pheroze,

    Yes as you mentioned, I have described my personal experiences and observations in shooting African game and Alaskan game with the .30-06 / 220 grain round nose soft, elsewhere in this forum.
    Always excellent performance from the Hornady at around 2350 to 2400 fps.
    This is according to the loading manual data, as I have never shot this load through a chronograph.
    I have shot targets out to 300 meters/yards with this load (rifle zeroed to "center hold" at 100).
    It requires a little hold-over at 300 but, very much less than one might think before actually trying it.
    Also, when zeroed at 100, it is still so close to spot on at 200 that it is impossible to say the bullet dropped at all on whatever critter you shoot at that range.
    In my sordid youthful years, during discussions of hold-over, leading a running animal, etc., here I quote my old childhood hunting friend, David Byers ... "Just aim right at 'em".

    For open places like Namibia, The Eastern Cape and Highveld of South Africa, a flatter shooting load would probably be a good idea.
    And, actually for any places like those, with a steady diet of long shots, I like the .300 H&H with 180 grain spitzer, at around 2850 fps.
    However, with a bit of practice, a hunter should be able to hit small targets out 350 yards/meters, perhaps a bit further with the same 180 gr bullet at .30-06 velocity.
    To quote Townsend Whelen, "you can't go wrong with a .30-06".

    All that being said, throughout the more typical thornbush conditions, covering most of Sub-Saharan Africa, if I were to choose a .30 caliber rifle and ammunition for antelopes and swine, it would be the .30-06 / 220 gr round nose soft and not the faster .300 magnum mentioned above.
    (Ideal would be a .318 Westley Richards / 250 gr round nose or, ballistic twin .338-06 / same bullet configuration or, 9.3x63 Mauser / 286 gr round nose, etc., but that's off topic here).

    TMS,

    Up here in the frozen north where I live, the .338 Winchester is extremely popular, and for those who shoot it straight with heavy bullets, it is quite good for moose, bear, bison.
    With lighter (225 gr spitzer) it shoots very flat for things like sheep and goat hunting, at longer ranges.
    However, I have seen the same poor shooting with it as you have on animals, except in my case, it is on paper targets, at my local rifle range here, every August as the "once a year" types arrive to sight-in their .338s.
    For avid hand-loaders and rifle enthusiasts, the .338 is conversely a fine cartridge.
    The good old 250 grain Nosler Partition is still quite popular here in Alaska for the .338 Winchester, on larger animals.

    However, from what I have seen with the more casual .338 owner, I cannot imagine how they expect to hit the vitals on game, as poorly as they shoot on paper, (evidently flinching often).
    Likewise, the non-enthusiast tends to virtually always have installed way too much scope on their fast kickers.
    So, not only do they flinch often but, their over-large scopes are so heavy that they sometimes slip about in the rings from recoil (for only a .33 bore, the .338W has plenty of hard and fast recoil, at least partly due to the average .338 being a pound or so too light).
    I have consistently seen the same from Weatherby fans, during the final days before hunting season opens here, all over the paper, and sometimes not even hitting the paper at all.
    Weatherby rifles are typically very accurate but, some guys who own them don't handle the recoil well (I wouldn't either) and would be better off with a .30-06 - me too as a matter of fact.

    Cheers,
    Velo Dog.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2016

  14. siml

    siml AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    @Velo Dog , thanks for the great explanation. I totally agree with the flinching.
     
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  15. PHOENIX PHIL

    PHOENIX PHIL AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    So the wife and I headed to the range yesterday. This was her first time to shoot "her" .30-06. I planned no more then 10 shots. I loaded up some 165gr Ballistic Tips to roughly same the level as the load I've developed for hunting.

    No bench shooting for her this time. Going to shoot off the sticks to watch that recoil. I figured if she got a few in the kill zone that'd be great. This is how it went with my sons and they did fine once we went hunting. Well she didn't make it through 10 shots. Her first shot, off the sticks which she's not done since one shot in 2010, and firing her so far heaviest hitter, was touching the bullseye. She put 4 of 5 easily in the kill zone with one marginal shot, at a 100 yard target. Recoil was nothing to her standing up like that. And this was done at a local range with all sorts of firing guns around us.........time to declare victory and go home!
     
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  16. Ridgewalker

    Ridgewalker AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    That's great news. All the worrying for nothing. Tough little lady.
    I brought my wife into the world with a 243 shortened pull. She took a nice buck antelope, a doe antelope and two doe mulies with it. Then decided she just wanted to hunt and not kill. She just hated carrying the gun. Loves to hunt, but not into hauling a gun through the mountains of Colorado. That's fine too.
    Good luck on your hunt! Hope she enjoys it?
     

  17. Marcos Rodriguez

    Marcos Rodriguez AH Enthusiast

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    Ohil, greetings!!!
    I´m glaf for the success!! hahaha...
    wich load do you use?
     

  18. PHOENIX PHIL

    PHOENIX PHIL AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    Used the 165gr North Fork Bonded Cores with IMR4350 in the wife's .30-06. Properly placed shots resulted in quick kills.
     

  19. Marcos Rodriguez

    Marcos Rodriguez AH Enthusiast

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    SHURE thath!
    I agree...
    Sorry... how many 4350?... 56 gr?... Do you test my recipe?
     

  20. PHOENIX PHIL

    PHOENIX PHIL AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    My data is at home, but like 56.6 if I remember correctly. But close to 56 regardless.
     

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