Politics

RLD said:

You are right the Super Bowl is never empty. But it is filled with rich folks and the tickets literally don't go on sale at all to the general public:

"According to market tracking data, the average household income of an in-person stadium spectator sits comfortably above $200,000 to $250,000 annually."

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Filled with rich folks my ass... an average is just that.. an average.. and when you average in billionaires in box seats and millionaires in all of the 50 yard line seats of course it skews the average.. When you have Donald Trump, Elon Musk, and a dozen other billionaires in the seats, what do you think it does to the numbers?

Super Bowl tickets start at about $3K... RESALE of tickets gets insane and can go as high as about $12K...

$3K is expensive.. but not inaccessible... look at what it costs to go to an Ariana Grande concert these days.. kids literally travel the globe to see her.. and pay for hotels, flights, etc.. in addition to ticket costs..

Ive been to 2 super bowls.. one when I was in my young twenties.. another a few years later.. since I entered the "middle class" I havent had the desire.. but could absolutely pull it off again if I wanted to.. and I am far from "rich"

Sure there are "rich folks" buying up 50 yard line seats, box seats, etc..

and there are a shit ton load of average every day guys buying tickets as well..

Me and 3 other guys split travel costs, split hotel rooms, etc.. and actually saved and planned for it...

the same way I went to a race in Tallegega when I was in my 20's.. and other events....

A guy making minimum wage flipping burgers likely cant pull it off without years of saving.. but a young, average working class person absolutely can.. if they are willing to work for it...

The same goes for insanely priced concert tickets these days.. do you believe only "rich folks" go to Taylor Swift shows? Her tickets range from $950 for nose bleed seats to $2500 for ground floor up close seats... and somehow she sells out every show.. with largely young, working class girls in the audience..

RLD said:

You are right the Super Bowl is never empty. But it is filled with rich folks and the tickets literally don't go on sale at all to the general public:

"According to market tracking data, the average household income of an in-person stadium spectator sits comfortably above $200,000 to $250,000 annually."

Click to expand...

Yes I know ticket price can be based on package and experience.. my MIL has gone to every patriot Super Bowl and bruins, and red Sox’s equivalent over the last 20 years I remember they had a package a decade ago that was almost 40k a ticket that was for the week and events.
Anyone of middle class means it would be a real sacrifice to go to a game. The cheapest pair of tickets were selling for 6-8k at the last game on secondary sites when I looked them you had flight, hotel and food and you are easy 12-14k. In for a weekend manageable but probably irresponsible.

LivingTheDream said:

https://twitter.com/x/status/2094465053357375629

Now even live sporting events need to be included as part of living wage.

It never ends, just a different form of keeping up with Jones, see something on the internet or hear what someone else is doing and go I deserve to be able to afford that.

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I asked AI:

Was bread and circuses a signal of the fall of Rome?

Yes—“bread and circuses” is often treated as a symptom of Rome’s political decline, but not really a cause of the fall by itself.

The phrase comes from the Roman satirist Juvenal, writing around the late 1st/early 2nd century AD. He complained that Roman citizens, who had once cared about political power and public affairs, had become satisfied with “bread and circuses” — essentially subsidized grain and public entertainment such as games and races.

What makes it significant is what it supposedly reflected: declining civic participation, increasing dependence on imperial patronage, and emperors using benefits and spectacle to maintain popularity rather than relying on meaningful republican political participation.

Is Mamdani's sporting ticket proposal good for New York?

The strongest version of Mamdani’s idea is less “government subsidizes sports fandom” and more “the city uses its leverage with teams and event organizers to reserve a small block of affordable seats for residents.” That can be defensible; a broad taxpayer-funded ticket subsidy would be much harder to justify.

His administration has already done several versions of this. New York secured 1,000 World Cup tickets at $50 each with free bus transportation, 500 free tickets to the U.S. track championships, up to 4,000 $15 Gotham FC tickets, and most recently 1,000 U.S. Open tickets at $100 for NYC residents. The City Council is also considering a resolution encouraging teams and venues to create reduced-price “Fan Access Programs” prioritizing residents and groups such as veterans, students and first responders.

I should add, its only been in VERY RECENT years that super bowl tickets have skyrocketed.. historically they have always been high... but in 2006 premium seats were $700.. and basic seats were about $300..

It should also be noted that for the last 2 years resale prices have actually been coming down as demand is decreasing.. not by much (only 1% last year)... scalpers drive the insane prices.. the NFL only drive the prices to stupid..

mdwest said:

Filled with rich folks my ass... an average is just that.. an average.. and when you average in billionaires in box seats and millionaires in all of the 50 yard line seats of course it skews the average.. When you have Donald Trump, Elon Musk, and a dozen other billionaires in the seats, what do you think it does to the numbers?

Super Bowl tickets start at about $3K... RESALE of tickets gets insane and can go as high as about $12K...

$3K is expensive.. but not inaccessible... look at what it costs to go to an Ariana Grande concert these days.. kids literally travel the globe to see her.. and pay for hotels, flights, etc.. in addition to ticket costs..

Ive been to 2 super bowls.. one when I was in my young twenties.. another a few years later.. since I entered the "middle class" I havent had the desire.. but could absolutely pull it off again if I wanted to..

Sure there are "rich folks" buying up 50 yard line seats, box seats, etc..

and there are a shit ton load of average every day guys buying tickets as well..

Me and 3 other guys split travel costs, split hotel rooms, etc.. and actually saved and planned for it...

the same way I went to a race in Tallegega when I was in my 20's.. and other events....

A guy making minimum wage flipping burgers likely cant pull it off without years of saving.. but a young, average working class person absolutely can.. if they are willing to work for it...

The same goes for insanely priced concert tickets these days.. do you believe only "rich folks" go to Taylor Swift shows? Her tickets range from $950 for nose bleed seats to $2500 for ground floor up close seats... and somehow she sells out every show.. with largely young, working class girls in the audience..

Click to expand...

If you think Super Bowl seats are accessibly priced than I suggest you are out of touch. They are over $4k a seat now. That is without travel etc.

Super Bowl tickets are all resale. They literally do not go on sale to the general public at all from the NFL. They don't have a face value.

I have paid $1000 Cdn for a entertainment event, but I am not fooling myself that is an accessible number.

We see the same thing at Leafs games, average working class families cannot afford to go. Is that a great social ill...no of course not. But neither is NYC making a few tennis tickets available for a lower price a moral outrage.

And sports tickets are not getting better in pricing. Their increases are outstripping the rate of inflation and wage increase, and for big events like the Super Bowl, NBA finals or the World Cup, their ticket prices over the last couple of decades outstrip inflation by 300-1000%. Almost makes one sympathetic to some of Vance's arguments on how certain elements of capitalism have been harmful to community and family.

rookhawk said:

I asked AI:

Was bread and circuses a signal of the fall of Rome?

Yes—“bread and circuses” is often treated as a symptom of Rome’s political decline, but not really a cause of the fall by itself.

The phrase comes from the Roman satirist Juvenal, writing around the late 1st/early 2nd century AD. He complained that Roman citizens, who had once cared about political power and public affairs, had become satisfied with “bread and circuses” — essentially subsidized grain and public entertainment such as games and races.

What makes it significant is what it supposedly reflected: declining civic participation, increasing dependence on imperial patronage, and emperors using benefits and spectacle to maintain popularity rather than relying on meaningful republican political participation.

Is Mamdani's sporting ticket proposal good for New York?

The strongest version of Mamdani’s idea is less “government subsidizes sports fandom” and more “the city uses its leverage with teams and event organizers to reserve a small block of affordable seats for residents.” That can be defensible; a broad taxpayer-funded ticket subsidy would be much harder to justify.

His administration has already done several versions of this. New York secured 1,000 World Cup tickets at $50 each with free bus transportation, 500 free tickets to the U.S. track championships, up to 4,000 $15 Gotham FC tickets, and most recently 1,000 U.S. Open tickets at $100 for NYC residents. The City Council is also considering a resolution encouraging teams and venues to create reduced-price “Fan Access Programs” prioritizing residents and groups such as veterans, students and first responders.

Click to expand...

I enjoyed some of Juvenal’s musings but Rome didn’t start to fall till several hundred years after his death

Remember he lived during Pax Romana

again, how do literally hundreds of thousands of college kids go to Taylor Swift, Ariana Grande, Harry Styles concerts every year.. at a cost of thousands upon thousands of dollars?

When they save, plan, and prepare, they can do it.. and they do, do it.. every single day...

No, super bowl tickets are not all re-sale.. re-sale is scalping....

35% of tickets are distributed to the 2 teams attending... they generally give first right of refusal on sale to season ticket holders and generallt do not mark up the tickets..

All other NFL teams are then given about 1-2% of the tickets depending on the year.. and they sell them without mark up to their season ticket holders..

The city/host generally gets about 5% of the tickets to do with what they want..

and then 25-30% of the tickets go to NFL corporate sponsors, broadcast networks, the actual NFL league offices, the media, and others.. and often are "given" to these people without a cost at all...

The issue of hyper inflated tickets comes when those season ticket holders, that got their tickets at the entry price decide to sell their tickets through an onine ticket agency, or an actual scalper, who then hyper inflates the ticket based on market demand..

A patriots season ticket holder.. that works below the middle class as a teller in a bank somewhere, but prioritizes football for entertainment can absolutely obtain a ticket at an accessible, albeit expensive price.. and if they think the Pats are going back to the super bowl, they plan, prepare, and save for it.. and voila! you have a not rich person sitting in the stands enjoying the game..

Happens every year.. and happens a whole lot more than you apparently understand or realize..

RLD said:

I have paid $1000 Cdn for a entertainment event, but I am not fooling myself that is an accessible number.

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So what?

My daughter makes an entry level wage.. isnt established in a profession like you are.. and has paid $1K USD (lets call it $1250 CDN) for concert tickets...

It aint cheap..

but its clearly accessible.. she "accesses" $1K tickets every year...

and somehow still eats.. has a roof over her head.. pays her car note.. etc..etc..

Its a matter of priorities and saving.. nothing more.. nothing less..

They used to give the jaguars tickets away lol when I was a kid the tickets were so cheap. We went to games all the time. AFC championship Playoff games as well. Though patriot Super Bowl tickets can be very expensive on the secondary market and Box suites are expensive regardless

mdwest said:

again, how do literally hundreds of thousands of college kids go to Taylor Swift, Ariana Grande, Harry Styles concerts every year.. at a cost of thousands upon thousands of dollars?

When they save, plan, and prepare, they can do it.. and they do, do it.. every single day...

No, super bowl tickets are not all re-sale.. re-sale is scalping....

35% of tickets are distributed to the 2 teams attending... they generally give first right of refusal on sale to season ticket holders and generallt do not mark up the tickets..

All other NFL teams are then given about 1-2% of the tickets depending on the year.. and they sell them without mark up to their season ticket holders..

The city/host generally gets about 5% of the tickets to do with what they want..

and then 25-30% of the tickets go to NFL corporate sponsors, broadcast networks, the actual NFL league offices, the media, and others.. and often are "given" to these people without a cost at all...

The issue of hyper inflated tickets comes when those season ticket holders, that got their tickets at the entry price decide to sell their tickets through an onine ticket agency, or an actual scalper, who then hyper inflates the ticket based on market demand..

A patriots season ticket holder.. that works below the middle class as a teller in a bank somewhere, but prioritizes football for entertainment can absolutely obtain a ticket at an accessible, albeit expensive price.. and if they think the Pats are going back to the super bowl, they plan, prepare, and save for it.. and voila! you have a not rich person sitting in the stands enjoying the game..

Happens every year.. and happens a whole lot more than you apparently understand or realize..

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Ok @mdwest, we are going to check your man-card and do a re-eval. The fact that you mention Ariana Grande's name is a bit troubling among this group. So, hand it over. I would have expected an AF guy behaving this way, but never an SF guy.

RLD said:

I just don't see the problem with NYC promoting some community by helping some working stiffs go to a local sporting event. Scrooge much?

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I am not a scrooge, I think it is fucking ridiculous to subsidize ticket prices.

As far a list of issues and priorities facing NYC and on a larger scale America, getting tickets to sporting event should be extremely low.

Mets tickets can be had for 10 to 20 dollars, seriously how much lower to want them to go. I took my daughter to a Single A game, we were 2nd row behind the Visitor dug out (tickets were 22 dollars) we were so close, when one of the players got a hit, my daughter said great hit when he came to the dugout and he gave her a game ball!

You can gladly put your money where your mouth is an offer to buy anyone sporting event tickets, come on, don't be a scrooge.

PARA45 said:

Ok @mdwest, we are going to check your man-card and do a re-eval. The fact that you mention Ariana Grande's name is a bit troubling among this group. So, hand it over. I would have expected an AF guy behaving this way, but never an SF guy.

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I wouldnt have.. but its sort of "real" to me right now... I just talked to the daughter in question about a week ago and she was telling me about how she and her girlfriends had gone to Miami back in July to see Ariana Grande in concert and how "awesome" it was, etc..etc..

This was after I was joking with her about how miserable she made the rest of us in New Zealand a couple of years ago.. All she wanted to listen to the entire time we were in the car was the Wicked soundtrack lol.. I bet I heard 'Defying Gravity" a thousand times over a 7 day period of time lol...

LivingTheDream said:

https://twitter.com/x/status/2094465053357375629

Now even live sporting events need to be included as part of living wage.

It never ends, just a different form of keeping up with Jones, see something on the internet or hear what someone else is doing and go I deserve to be able to afford that.

Click to expand...

I mean I make good money and I can’t stomach how out of whack prices for sports and concerts have gotten. I have resigned to the fact that I’ll never see another concert unless Garth comes through town with $60 tickets again.

If someone wanted to ACTUALLY do something about it though, maybe rattle Ticketmasters cage, make buying tickets an in person thing again to limit bots and do something about re-sellers.

Owners are an easy target though because they all got sweetheart deals on the taxpayers dime. My favourite one is how our local billionaire who wanted to be the “good guy” bought his childhood idol hockey team to save them. He then threatened to ship them south if the taxpayers didn’t build him a rink, so a deal was reached and now fans are paying the province/city back through a ticket surcharge, so really the owner isn’t out anything.

RLD said:

You are right the Super Bowl is never empty. But it is filled with rich folks and the tickets literally don't go on sale at all to the general public:

"According to market tracking data, the average household income of an in-person stadium spectator sits comfortably above $200,000 to $250,000 annually."

Click to expand...

So what? The crazy high price of a Super Bowl ticket is why I don't even bother to look anymore and I choose not to attend. My life is so much poorer for it......cry me a river. I really just don't care, my life moves on just fine with the occasional regular season events I attend.

I wish I could afford a new Ferrari, but I can't. I don't even bother to consider it. My life is so much poorer for it.......cry me a river. The fact is I really just don't care, my life moves on just fine with the vehicles I have.

Should I waste your time with countless more examples?

Hopefully the point I'm trying to make comes thru. The problem with both sides of this stupid argument is both sides are missing the same thing. It's about setting a priority on what's important to you and what that actually should be.

Should high end sporting events, expensive cars, homes, vacations be made available to all at a working class price? Really?

This truly is perhaps the most stupid topic to hit this thread in awhile. This is just another income class envy issue. If you can't afford these things, then work harder to get to the point that you can. But perhaps take time to assess what actually is important in your life. If you're not willing to work harder or just don't have what it takes to be able to afford these things, get the ever loving f@ck over it and move on with your life.

Perhaps you'll find that material isn't what makes you happy and you'll refocus on what is important. This is something either side of this argument I think could learn.

PHOENIX PHIL said:

This truly is perhaps the most stupid topic to hit this thread in awhile

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I posted it as a joke, didnt think we would actually debate about it.

Sport teams, opera, symphony, etc. I really don't care about, but some business executives do, which is why everyone wants those in their city to attract and keep business.

As for concerts, those ticket have become outrageous when compared to the 70's and 80's using 70's and 80's dollars. I almost never buy those anymore, and of course any group I would want to hear most of the members are dropping dead. Now my wife, loves Coldplay, so I do have other buy those.

LivingTheDream said:

I posted it as a joke, didnt think we would actually debate about it.

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The comment was not directed at you, no offense intended.

PHOENIX PHIL said:

The comment was not directed at you, no offense intended.

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None taken, more of agreeing with you.

But it is proof apparently we can argue about anything.

A friend and I were considering tailgating and going to the Bronco's/Cardinals game.
$140+ for seats in the nosebleed sections.
I'm not paying $800 for no football game.
NFL has gotten out of touch with its ticket prices, as well as the $13 stadium beers, not to mention getting bent over for parking costs.
It's a racket.