Politics

[RLD]

Somehow I feel like I’m being gaslit, gaslighted (whatever). RLD is now claiming to be a through and through conservative… ya right

I am a proud Canadian Conservative. Not whatever a Trump follower might be.

We actually have parties called that. And I have been a member (provincially and federally) for more than 40 years.

Many of our friends down south seem to have lost track of what conservatism is and have embraced that odd little cult of personality that President Bonespur demands. It's gotten so bad that they weep and wail when someone plays them a video clip of that crazy Libtard Reagan!

 

[Red Leg]

I keep reading on here about not everyone having the same opportunities to succeed in the US, how corporations are oppressive, not everyone getting paid the same, or burger flippers not being able to make ends meet, etc, etc. I can't help myself but laugh and let explain why.

My mom immigrated into the US in 1968, she applied and was given a Green Card (it was green back then), and she was also given a job, working at a radio factory somewhere in NYC. This was the trade off to get the Green Card, and she had to work at that job for a minimum of a year, and she could stay there if she wanted. Some on here may call the government taking advantage of the individual, my mom called it an opportunity. Four years later she petition for the rest of us to move into the US, and we were all given Green Cards (Legal Residency).

We lived in Jersey City in a very small two-bedroom apartment, all six of us. My parent in one small room, and the four us in another. My mom worked at a factory (what we call today a sweat shop) making coats, she would stop by the house and cook us dinner, after she would take the subway to NYC to work at night cleaning offices. She would come home around 1 AM, just to do it all over again the next day. My dad who was a CPA by trade work for a Jewish firm in NYC. Neither of them knew English but work hard and were rewarded by their hard work.

My parents never asked for anything from the government, they are too proud, they have worked hard since setting foot on this great country. About 35 years ago, they opened up their own small company, a freight forwarding business, and now my middle brother runs it. Didn't make them rich, but they both lived a comfortable life. Three of us worked with them, and my middle brother and sister basically run the business now. I chose a different path (my choice) against my mom's complaints. She wanted me to take over the business; my heart was set on to remain in the military.

My point with all this is, that if my parents who came into this great country, not knowing the language, working hard all their life, honest citizens, never broke the law, never took advantage of the system, and through sweat, and tears they were able to become successful individuals. Why can't those who were born here with the endless possibilities to be successful, bitch, moan and complain about not having any chance of success. If my parents were able to do it, anyone can do it. I'm not saying that everyone is going to be a millionaire, but the sky is the limit, this is why our great nation is called the land of opportunities. In my humble opinion, it takes hard work, honesty, determination, and the heart to be successful. Not the government to take you by the hand and guide you into your successful life. I'll say it again, personal responsibility and accountability, if you are not successful in life because you are lazy, there is no one to blame but you the individual.

The really sad thing is, that we have fellow citizens - not new immigrants - who look at such a path to success with absolute disdain. They believe they are either too intelligent, too well educated, or too well born to so demean themselves to such hard work. While I do believe, a belief for which there is actual considerable evidence, such attitudes are more prevalent among more recent generations, I had peers with the same attitude. One, with whom I went school, ended his studies with a Master of Fine Arts degree from the University of New Mexico. He should be a classic case study. I should add, his degrees were from a much finer university than I ever attended until the Army sent me to Georgetown.

He seemed to assume that he would immediately be recognized as the new Richard Avedon, Garry Winogrand, or perhaps Ansel Adams and would be compensated handsomely for his very existence. He never really started a business, grudgingly took the occasional wedding picture job or stooped to do family portraits. He currently works at Lowes in New Mexico for the health insurance while his wife continues to work as an executive assistant - they are in their mid-seventies. He seems to spend much of his time now on Facebook railing against the capitalist system, the current administration. and the ignorance, even stupidity, of the average American. As I think about it, he reminds me a lot of the caricature portrayed by Big Easy.

 

[RLD]

The really sad thing is, that we have fellow citizens - not new immigrants - who look at such a path to success with absolute disdain. They believe they are either too intelligent, too well educated, or too well born to so demean themselves to such hard work. While I do believe, a belief for which there is actual considerable evidence, such attitudes are more prevalent among more recent generations, I had peers with the same attitude. One, with whom I went school, ended his studies with a Master of Fine Arts degree from the University of New Mexico. He should be a classic case study. I should add, his degrees were from a much finer university than I ever attended until the Army sent me to Georgetown.

He seemed to assume that he would immediately be recognized as the new Richard Avedon, Garry Winogrand, or perhaps Ansel Adams and would be compensated handsomely for his very existence. He never really started a business, grudgingly took the occasional wedding picture job or stooped to do family portraits. He currently works at Lowes in New Mexico for the health insurance while his wife continues to work as an executive assistant - they are in their mid-seventies. He seems to spend much of his time now on Facebook railing against the capitalist system, the current administration. and the ignorance, even stupidity, of the average American. As I think about it, he reminds me a lot of the caricature portrayed by Big Easy.

My experience lately has been very similar.

Many of the young Canadians hires and applicants at our firm lately have been entitled, not hard working and not willing to go the extra mile to get ahead. Remarkably disappointing.

On the other hand we have hired a number of people from Africa, the Indian subcontinent and the Middle East and they are knocking themselves out to get ahead. It is a pleasure to work with them.

 

[spike.t]

Never knew this......you West Coast usa people could have been Russian.....

'The forgotten empire': When Russia colonised California

For nearly 30 years, part of Sonoma was ruled by Tsarist Russia, and it played a pivotal – if little-known – role in shaping the US.

www.bbc.com

 

[Red Leg]

My experience lately has been very similar.

Many of the young Canadians hires and applicants at our firm lately have been entitled, not hard working and not willing to go the extra mile to get ahead. Remarkably disappointing.

On the other hand we have hired a number of people from Africa, the Indian subcontinent and the Middle East and they are knocking themselves out to get ahead. It is a pleasure to work with them.

With respect to the sub-continent and East Asia, that was my experience as well. However, we were a high end engineering and development enterprise. Over a decade, I am fairly sure the only actual African who applied (and we hired her) was a blond software engineer from Cape Town, who insisted on referring to herself as "African American" on forms (driving human resources to distraction to my utter delight). We did aggressively recruit black Americans with the appropriate skill sets. With respect to the Middle East, we partnered with several Israeli companies over the years, but I do not believe I have ever even met an Arab software, hardware, or systems engineer in my life in order to judge their work ethic.

 

[tinktink12]

 

[LivingTheDream]

I have been doing some pro-bono executive/career coaching with Gen Z, all 22 to 25 years old, and what you guys are saying is kind of spot on.

As @Scott CWO pointed out, and the way I was raised was work harder, no one cares, work sucks and there is a support group called a "bar" and go there to complian when not working. I had my first job at 14 and kind of got the impression the only variable I could control was how hard I work. So to be successful, regardless of what it was, I was going to work hard so I could move up. I feel many of you have the same work ethic and thought process.

Gen Z was told to focus on school, get a good GPA, do extra-curricular activities, so they could get into a good college, focus on grades, do leadership roles, when you graduate, you will get a good job. Many of these aspects were very controlled, schedules were set, parents, coaches, guidance counselors, all telling them to do X to make Y happen. Many have been told focus on these things, you have your whole life to work, and this is how you get a good job, etc.

They didnt necessarily lack work ethic, they lack the ability to self start and problem solve. They basically have been told every step of the way what to do, and graduate and are now kind of lost. This is further complicated in the fact they dont really know how to have in person conversations, maybe from technology, maybe from COVID, but it is an issue.

Now I had a kid from Georgetown, never had a job, interrupt me during an interview to tell me this job didnt truly utilize his skill set, super impressive resume, but no way was I hiring his entitled kid, but I found kids like this to be rare exception.

It is why I try to coach them, because I don't think it is a lack of talent or work ethic, it is a bit of fear of failure and not having to really put themselves out there, they always had and in some cases still do have a safety net.

It is why as Scott described, there is sense of "take it all away, I will still be successful in the older generations", they proved it and have faced, probably more than once failure and had to put it all in the line. Which why there is probably some anger towards younger generations because they see the end result and not the stress, pain and sacrifice that made it possible. Younger generations haven't had that moment, and honestly have not been put in a position to face it.

 

[Red Leg]

I shared the interesting discovery of the AI generated "Amelia" putting several of Kipling's poems of Empire to music. The UK YouTube channel releasing them has apparently generated a great deal of criticism in the UK because they echo the sentiments of Imperial Great Britain in an era of self-inflicted woke shame - not that Rudyard Kipling couldn't be highly critical - I offer Widow of Windsor and even this work as evidence. Also, Amelia originally was created for an online game to demonize nationalistic and "right wing extremism." To the horror of woke Britain, she gradually became an online meme championing patriotic and nationalistic ideals.

In any case, this is another of his works, "Ford O' Kabul River" that should strike a chord with many here.

1
Kabul town's by Kabul river -
Blow the bugle, draw the sword -
There I lef' my mate for ever,
Wet an' drippin' by the ford.
Ford, ford, ford o' Kabul river,
Ford o' Kabul river in the dark!
There's the river up and brimmin',
An' there's 'arf a squadron swimmin'
'Cross the ford o' Kabul river in the dark.
2
Kabul town's a blasted place -
Blow the bugle, draw the sword -
'Strewth I sha'n't forget 'is face
Wet an' drippin' by the ford!
Ford, ford, ford o' Kabul river,
Ford o' Kabul river in the dark!
Keep the crossing-stakes beside you,
An' they will surely guide you
'Cross the ford o' Kabul river in the dark.
3
Kabul town is sun and dust -
Blow the bugle, draw the sword -
I'd ha' sooner drownded fust
'Stead of 'im beside the ford.
Ford, ford, ford o' Kabul river,
Ford o' Kabul river in the dark!
You can 'ear the 'orses threshin',
You can 'ear the men a-splashin',
'Cross the ford o' Kabul river in the dark.
4
Kabul town was ours to take -
Blow the bugle, draw the sword -
I'd ha' left it for 'is sake -
'Im that left me by the ford.
Ford, ford, ford o' Kabul river,
Ford o' Kabul river in the dark!
It's none so bloomin' dry there;
Ain't you never comin' nigh there,
'Cross the ford o' Kabul river in the dark?
5
Kabul town'll go to hell -
Blow the bugle, draw the sword -
'Fore I see him 'live an' well -
'Im the best beside the ford.
Ford, ford, ford o' Kabul river,
Ford o' Kabul river in the dark!
Gawd 'elp 'em if they blunder,
For their boots'll pull 'em under,
By the ford o' Kabul river in the dark.
6
Turn your 'orse from Kabul town -
Blow the bugle, draw the sword -
'Im an' 'arf my troop is down,
Down an' drownded by the ford.
Ford, ford, ford o' Kabul river,
Ford o' Kabul river in the dark!
There's the river low an' fallin',
But it ain't no use o' callin'
'Cross the ford o' Kabul river in the dark.

 

[RLD]

With respect to the sub-continent and East Asia, that was my experience as well. However, we were a high end engineering and development enterprise. Over a decade, I am fairly sure the only actual African who applied (and we hired her) was a blond software engineer from Cape Town, who insisted on referring to herself as "African American" on forms (driving human resources to distraction to my utter delight). We did aggressively recruit black Americans with the appropriate skill sets. With respect to the Middle East, we partnered with several Israeli companies over the years, but I do not believe I have ever even met an Arab software, hardware, or systems engineer in my life in order to judge their work ethic.

I am always careful using the term Arab which is why I said middle east, but Toronto has a very large Iranian expatriate community and the lawyers, law clerks, doctors and engineers I have worked with who were educated in Iran were all very strong, but on the legal side it is a long requalification period here as there legal system has just about nothing in common with ours. I currently have Nigerian and South African born and trained lawyers working for me and the transition with them has been smooth and they are a pleasure to work with. I also work with former South African doctors and accountants and they are great.

And to be honest, Canadian juries really seem to like the South African accent, although I think the English SA accent comes off a little better than the Africaaner version.

 

[RLD]

I have been doing some pro-bono executive/career coaching with Gen Z, all 22 to 25 years old, and what you guys are saying is kind of spot on.

As @Scott CWO pointed out, and the way I was raised was work harder, no one cares, work sucks and there is a support group called a "bar" and go there to complian when not working. I had my first job at 14 and kind of got the impression the only variable I could control was how hard I work. So to be successful, regardless of what it was, I was going to work hard so I could move up. I feel many of you have the same work ethic and thought process.

Gen Z was told to focus on school, get a good GPA, do extra-curricular activities, so they could get into a good college, focus on grades, do leadership roles, when you graduate, you will get a good job. Many of these aspects were very controlled, schedules were set, parents, coaches, guidance counselors, all telling them to do X to make Y happen. Many have been told focus on these things, you have your whole life to work, and this is how you get a good job, etc.

They didnt necessarily lack work ethic, they lack the ability to self start and problem solve. They basically have been told every step of the way what to do, and graduate and are now kind of lost. This is further complicated in the fact they dont really know how to have in person conversations, maybe from technology, maybe from COVID, but it is an issue.

Now I had a kid from Georgetown, never had a job, interrupt me during an interview to tell me this job didnt truly utilize his skill set, super impressive resume, but no way was I hiring his entitled kid, but I found kids like this to be rare exception.

It is why I try to coach them, because I don't think it is a lack of talent or work ethic, it is a bit of fear of failure and not having to really put themselves out there, they always had and in some cases still do have a safety net.

It is why as Scott described, there is sense of "take it all away, I will still be successful in the older generations", they proved it and have faced, probably more than once failure and had to put it all in the line. Which why there is probably some anger towards younger generations because they see the end result and not the stress, pain and sacrifice that made it possible. Younger generations haven't had that moment, and honestly have not been put in a position to face it.

God bless you for taking on that work!

 

[Red Leg]

I am always careful using the term Arab which is why I said middle east, but Toronto has a very large Iranian expatriate community and the lawyers, law clerks, doctors and engineers I have worked with who were educated in Iran were all very strong, but on the legal side it is a long requalification period here as there legal system has just about nothing in common with ours. I currently have Nigerian and South African born and trained lawyers working for me and the transition with them has been smooth and they are a pleasure to work with. I also work with former South African doctors and accountants and they are great.

And to be honest, Canadian juries really seem to like the South African accent, although I think the English SA accent comes off a little better than the Africaaner version.

You are correct. Though I tend to think of Iranians as Central Asian due to their Indo European ethnicity. With that in mind, I have known and hired several Iranian American engineers - but never an Arab.

 

[jeanes]

I shared the interesting discovery of the AI generated "Amelia" putting several of Kipling's poems of Empire to music. The UK YouTube channel releasing them has apparently generated a great deal of criticism in the UK because they echo the sentiments of Imperial Great Britain in an era of self-inflicted woke shame - not that Rudyard Kipling couldn't be highly critical - I offer Widow of Windsor and even this work as evidence. Also, Amelia originally was created for an online game to demonize nationalistic and "right wing extremism." To the horror of woke Britain, she gradually became an online meme championing patriotic and nationalistic ideals.

In any case, this is another of his works, "Ford O' Kabul River" that should strike a chord with many here.

1
Kabul town's by Kabul river -
Blow the bugle, draw the sword -
There I lef' my mate for ever,
Wet an' drippin' by the ford.
Ford, ford, ford o' Kabul river,
Ford o' Kabul river in the dark!
There's the river up and brimmin',
An' there's 'arf a squadron swimmin'
'Cross the ford o' Kabul river in the dark.
2
Kabul town's a blasted place -
Blow the bugle, draw the sword -
'Strewth I sha'n't forget 'is face
Wet an' drippin' by the ford!
Ford, ford, ford o' Kabul river,
Ford o' Kabul river in the dark!
Keep the crossing-stakes beside you,
An' they will surely guide you
'Cross the ford o' Kabul river in the dark.
3
Kabul town is sun and dust -
Blow the bugle, draw the sword -
I'd ha' sooner drownded fust
'Stead of 'im beside the ford.
Ford, ford, ford o' Kabul river,
Ford o' Kabul river in the dark!
You can 'ear the 'orses threshin',
You can 'ear the men a-splashin',
'Cross the ford o' Kabul river in the dark.
4
Kabul town was ours to take -
Blow the bugle, draw the sword -
I'd ha' left it for 'is sake -
'Im that left me by the ford.
Ford, ford, ford o' Kabul river,
Ford o' Kabul river in the dark!
It's none so bloomin' dry there;
Ain't you never comin' nigh there,
'Cross the ford o' Kabul river in the dark?
5
Kabul town'll go to hell -
Blow the bugle, draw the sword -
'Fore I see him 'live an' well -
'Im the best beside the ford.
Ford, ford, ford o' Kabul river,
Ford o' Kabul river in the dark!
Gawd 'elp 'em if they blunder,
For their boots'll pull 'em under,
By the ford o' Kabul river in the dark.
6
Turn your 'orse from Kabul town -
Blow the bugle, draw the sword -
'Im an' 'arf my troop is down,
Down an' drownded by the ford.
Ford, ford, ford o' Kabul river,
Ford o' Kabul river in the dark!
There's the river low an' fallin',
But it ain't no use o' callin'
'Cross the ford o' Kabul river in the dark.

I agree with you, Kipling could definitely be critical. I offer "The Last of the Light Brigade" (Which Amelia also sings) as further evidence.

 

[Red Leg]

I agree with you, Kipling could definitely be critical. I offer "The Last of the Light Brigade" (Which Amelia also sings) as further evidence.

Yep

 

[rookhawk]

You are correct. Though I tend to think of Iranians as Central Asian due to their Indo European ethnicity. With that in mind, I have known and hired several Iranian American engineers - but never an Arab.

Just an experienced based-bias. I've met a lot of Iranian-Americans. I've been fond of all of them. I think part of this is because of their influence on the flourishing of the Islamic golden era. Their practices started shi'a with all its trappings, including an absolute prohibition on suicide bombings and other insanities. Then they had heavy influence by the mystic elements of fringe Islam including "Greater Jihad", the Holy War against one's own nature. In short, their viewpoints were very "Christian" and "Western". Plus, if not for their innovations in Science, Islam would be a bunch of people hitting each other with clubs, so the Scientific method and critical reasoning are part of their ethos.

Iranian-Americans and even Iranians are the least of our concerns with Islam, contrary to USA-Israeli propaganda suggesting they are the most dangerous.

The most dangerous versions of Islam were built inside Saudi Arabia, bolstered by the US CIA in the 1980s, and now flourishing by Arab funding of madrassas throughout the world. Those ideas are what land airplanes into buildings.

 

[Aaron N]

Is all education indoctrination?..

There’s a reason we keep a box of crayons around for when our linemen on site get hungry

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

There’s a reason we keep a box of crayons around for when our linemen on site get hungry

Same on the boats , I likes the purple ones da bestest they taste like grape

 

[Big_Easy]

In Colorado, we receive a postcard a couple months before our vehicle registrations expire offering different ways to pay up. Well, during the recession, they increased the late payment penalty to $125 per vehicle. At the same time, they intentionally stopped sending out the postcard reminders. Does that seem underhanded?

It may appear that way, but do you have proof? It seems to me that the government not sending out reminders anymore was possibly a cost cutting measure given the tough economic times. If you add up all the postcards for every registration for every resident in the state, even considering discounted postage costs, that could be a few million dollars in avoided postage costs. Perhaps the result of some DOGE predecessor?

During the recession, the state passed a law that counties may start taxing businesses for property taxes for federal permit areas for commercial operations such as grazing, mining, logging, outfitting, ski areas, etc… even though the states already received PILT payments from the federal government for public lands in counties. PILT stands for Payment in lieu of Taxes. Years ago, the western states convinced the federal government that it was not fair that they received fewer property tax revenue due to the large federal land holdings in western states and counties so the feds started paying PILT. Now during the recession and ever since, I receive property taxes bills for federal lands that we operate on, even though we don’t own the land and even though the feds pay PILT!

Sounds like a lease tax. But I suppose a tax is a tax. I don't have any experience with those as I've always lived on the east coast.

I already pay the federal government for the permits. It is even more unfair for outfitters because we are not granted exclusive use of public land. Anyone with a hunting license can hunt on their own in our permit areas. Outfitting is different in that way than mining, logging or grazing in that those permit holders to have the exclusive rights to those activities.

Those permit holders sound like big businesses run by rich guys to me, yours sounds like a small business, run by you (wealth status unknown). Are you saying the laws are written in such a way that gives big businesses and the rich an unfair competitive advantage over small businesses by design? Careful now, lest someone on this forum declare that you too are anti-capitalist.

I have brought this up to the county and state to no avail. It’s not just some corporations.

Sounds like they have high paid lobbyists, and you don't. Almost like the game is rigged in their favor. But we know that's not true because @Red Leg just got done telling us how decent, reasonable, and awesome big business was.

 

[Big_Easy]

Are you now the posting police?

I am...Leftenant Big Easy at your service. I'll let you off with a warning this time, the next time not so much. The punishment is quite severe I hear.

 

[Big_Easy]

There's a bit of a simplification here, but imagine you are swimming in the ocean 50 feet from shore. Presumably you can swim back. Now I drop you 50 yards off shore. You can work harder and make it back. What happens at a mile? 100 miles offshore? At some point, the only way you make it back is by a boat named Luck.

I used to use the 100 yards/football field starting line saying, but I like yours better, and will steal it for the future.

Big_Easy believes we are at (or are at least approaching) this point for the majority of Americans. My earlier point is that circumstances are always changing, so my argument suggests we don't know where the point lies in a generational sense, but the perception of our distance to or from that point is what matters anyway. The distance from shore could be 10 feet, but if the person is convinced it's 10 miles, are they going to try to swim back, or just accept their fate? In a sense, perception defines reality.

Feels like I'm back in my philosophy class now.

It's a fundamentally interesting question. One point I want to interject is the origin story for a lot of the political debates holds WW2 as the foundational moment. It's why the "Greatest Generation" is the "Greatest." Not to diminish the accomplishments of an entire generation, or the difficulties they faced, but the generation prior dealt with the horrors of WW1 and entered mid/late-mid-life during the Great Depression. Child factory labor was not only legal, but increasing. There were no food safety standards. Advertisers could make any claims they wished. Something like 30% of infants died before their first birthday in some US cities. And that's not even touching on the fact this predates electricity, widespread adoption of the automobile, and the steam voyages to cross oceans. I'm sure the Lost Generation looked at the Greatest Generation and told them they had it easy.

You're making a really good case for government regulations there good sir. Thanks.

This is also logical. Whether attributed to doing what is right before our chosen God(s), or simply attributed to an evolutionary desire to continue our genetic legacy, I believe--or at least hope--the goal of a generation is to make the world easier for the generation and generations who follow.

(lets replace easier with better)

I don't know people on the far right who hold that level of a binary view that no big business can ever be evil.

Perhaps, but as far as this forum goes, I have yet to see anyone on the right even hint at it.

This raises a thought I didn't previously consider: has constant interconnectedness led to "gaslighting" by older generations creating a feedback loop of criticism?

It was probably always there in some form. Now we have a new vocabulary word for it.

Similarly, is it more prevalent now than in the past as a result of the ease of communication? If we assume every generation thinks the next generation has it easy--which anecdotally my grandfather's interactions with his sons supports--is it a non-issue when the "gaslighting" can only occur at family meals as opposed to every minute of every day? What impact would that have?

Social media is clearly magnifying negative aspects of society.

 

[Big_Easy]

Do you guys type this stuff on your IPhone?

iPads? PC? The sheer volume of words generated in a short time is amazing to me. I pretty much limit my typing to traffic signals. It would take me three weeks to compose such a voluminous post, assuming I could maintain my train of thought for that long.

Talk to text most of the time, or fast typing on the computer.