A Push Feed Rifle Or A Control Round Feed Rifle?

I have to say that, based on my experience, I agree. I have killed a couple of dozen bucks, two pronghorns, a wild boar and a bunch of coyotes with push-feed actions with no real problems.
When I went to Africa, I bought a Whitworth Express in .458 Winchester Mag. with a Mauser action. One day I shot a buffalo and we had to follow up. The bull set up an ambush but the PH spotted him and I put another in the boiler room. He turned and went back into the brush, then death bellowed. As we cautiously approached, the PH saw the bull through a hole in the brush and shot. He was using a push-feed action Winchester. The bull dropped at the shot and we snuck in. The PH motioned for me to wait about 10 yards back as he went in from the front. At about 10 feet he could see that the bull was watching him and as he was thriving up the rifle the buff made one jump, was on his feet and starting to charge. I heard the PH pull the trigger, and click on an empty chamber. I pulled on the shoulder and then went just forward where the book said the spine was (hey, at least I was a well read client) and broke the bull's neck, putting him down in a cloud of dust.
After we were sure that the drama was over, the PH was messing with his rifle. He closed the bolt and fired a shot into the dead buffalo. I asked what had happened and he said that he'd taken the last shot and ejected the shell, but the rifle had failed to feed up a new round. He had pulled the trigger on an empty chamber. Now could this have happened if I had used a push-feed and he had used a controlled-round action? Maybe, but it didn't. I will always use controlled-round action for dangerous game.

I have to say I have never given it much thought but I guess if my life depended upon it I would want a CRF if hunting dangerous game. I honestly admit to never having a problem with either one in all my years of use. I must confess that my favorite bolt actions rifles are all CRF although that is not the reason they are favored. Here in America I guess the only place it would matter is in Alaska hunting the coastal brown bears or interior grizzly.

Just buy yourself a double and forget all of the above.

What stands out to me, in nearly a 1/2 century of shooting is that the CRF guns (Mausers, Win, Enfield/A-Sq) outshoot most of the push-feeds. My personal experience has been that the push feeds can be quite finicky. When the custom push feeds are happy, they shoot just as well. The ones I have just seem to be more temperature and barrel cleanlilness (i.e. no fouling shot, poor first shot) sensitive. Others are very consistent, but group poorly. It's quite dynamic because some are much cheaper factory guns while others are 1-off customs. Marketing tells us that the CRF guns are relics of yesteryear but the facts are they generally shoot better under a wide array of conditions and may just save your life. In the balance, I can fully rely on any of my CRF guns to put that bullet precisely where it needs to go on shot 1. That cannot be said about many push-feeds. Agreed on the trick to work 1 more CRF round in the equation (excellent DG gun strategy!)

if you don,t fully pull the bolt the whole way back, you will not feed a new round with a crf or a push feed. my crf rifles also have a hold back after the last shot in the magizine follower. i have not found cr rifles any more accurett than push feed rifles over the years, a rifle needs more than crf to shoot well (barrel-stock-ammo- sights).

The equipment debates have validity but the biggest problem is as they say the nut behind the buttplate. I see guys babying the bolt (presumably so they can better recover the brass) during practice and then expect they will remember to behave differently under stress. Under stress people revert to what they have practiced. I open that bolt like I’m pulling a rapist off my child and close it just as hard. Every time. If I lose some brass I lose some brass.

CRF for DG....
Weatherby NO NO....they have more issues than just push feed.....in DG rifles....

Wyatt Smith said:

Thanks for the good read Mr. Rahman. Having owned all three types of Winchester model 70, pre64 30-06, a post 64 30-06, and a current production CRF 375 H&H. I prefer the controlled round feed the best but I never found the push feed to be lacking in any way, and it never caused a problem, however I kept it clean and it never saw hard use

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Thank you, Mr. Rahman.

Most interesting and enjoyable. Please keep sharing with us the benefits of your real-world experiences.

NF.

IMO - More failures are the cause of the hunter, not the rifle.
However, shortcomings exist with both PF and CRF.
And these will be argued to the end of time.

In the end...if it's reliable, use it.
Practice in the manner you wish to hunt.
Practice often.
If it fails in practice...try something else.

leslie hetrick said:

if you don,t fully pull the bolt the whole way back, you will not feed a new round with a crf or a push feed. my crf rifles also have a hold back after the last shot in the magizine follower. i have not found cr rifles any more accurett than push feed rifles over the years, a rifle needs more than crf to shoot well (barrel-stock-ammo- sights).

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@leslie hetrick
Mate you forgot the most important thing in accuracy. The shooter. I've got some less than half moa rifles and have had people still not be able to shoot well with them. On The other hand if seen people with rifles that group 2 inches at 100 yards run dings around people with super duper accurate rifles. Some can shoot well in the field but are crap from a bench and the other way around.
Bob

C.W. Richter said:

What stands out to me, in nearly a 1/2 century of shooting is that the CRF guns (Mausers, Win, Enfield/A-Sq) outshoot most of the push-feeds. My personal experience has been that the push feeds can be quite finicky. When the custom push feeds are happy, they shoot just as well. The ones I have just seem to be more temperature and barrel cleanlilness (i.e. no fouling shot, poor first shot) sensitive. Others are very consistent, but group poorly. It's quite dynamic because some are much cheaper factory guns while others are 1-off customs. Marketing tells us that the CRF guns are relics of yesteryear but the facts are they generally shoot better under a wide array of conditions and may just save your life. In the balance, I can fully rely on any of my CRF guns to put that bullet precisely where it needs to go on shot 1. That cannot be said about many push-feeds. Agreed on the trick to work 1 more CRF round in the equation (excellent DG gun strategy!)

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Frankly, I come from a different school of thought. First of all, whether you are shooting a CRF or a push feed, it makes no difference once the cartridge is chambered. Secondly, the 700 Remington action has been used and cloned by custom shops far more often than any CRF for accurate rifles. Granted, paper targets usually don't shoot back. I have built up so-called DG rifles (actually I hate that phrase - strikes of Walter Mitty - prefer big bore rifles) in both. I currently have two projects in the pipeline: a 404 jeff on a pre-64 Mod. 70 mag action and a 414 Ruger on a 700 Ultra-Mag action. I have several others in both configurations including a 458 Lott on a post-64 Mod. 70 action which feeds flawlessly and is extremely accurate as well.. Much ado about nothing.

leslie hetrick said:

if you don,t fully pull the bolt the whole way back, you will not feed a new round with a crf or a push feed. my crf rifles also have a hold back after the last shot in the magizine follower. i have not found cr rifles any more accurett than push feed rifles over the years, a rifle needs more than crf to shoot well (barrel-stock-ammo- sights).

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They can never engineer out operator error no matter how hard they try. The only countermeasure that works is practice practice practice.

So, yes, necro-thread revival; but, I’m finding it an interesting read. Being a south-paw, finding anything north of the 49th in Canada that is chambered in .375 H&H or larger, and in left hand configuration, never mind CRF, is challenging to say the least; not to mention expensive. Even the Zastavas seem to have disappeared. So, with a retirement hunt in Africa in mind, I jumped on a LH Sako AV in .375 when it stumbled upon it in the used inventory of an online gun store. I’ve been doing some loading and shooting with it, and quite like it. It is of course, push feed.

In one of those odd quirks of life, I have sometimes wondered if it will be reliable enough in Africa as a cull cow is something I wish to pursue. But then I stop and remember that push feeds also have excellent reliability associated with them or else the US military would not have thought such an action was suitable for the M24 rifle. And of course at the end of it all, I am left handed, have budgetary constrains and thus limited options in Canada.

So, I will happily take my push feed Sako to Africa when I retire, hunt my cow buffalo and be happy!

Cheers, gents!

You will be fine as a PH will be guiding you....most probably using a crf or double....

I thought those Sakos were semi push feed?

Even a Remington 700 would do the job ... unless cycling it while standing on your head.

My understanding is that later models such as the 85 are sort of CRF; although I admittedly don’t know how that works.

Chuckbuster said:

My understanding is that later models such as the 85 are sort of CRF; although I admittedly don’t know how that works.

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That’s correct. Sako 85 was CRF for the most part. I have one in 375. It’s a very smooth feeding rifle. I think for a hunter, control round feed vs push feed is a bit of a moot point. They’re both plenty reliable enough to do the job. I admittedly wouldn’t use a Remington 700, simply because I hate the tiny little POS extractor that they have. But even then I doubt you’d have a problem 99% of the time.
Your Sako AV will work just fine.

Chuckbuster said:

My understanding is that later models such as the 85 are sort of CRF; although I admittedly don’t know how that works.

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I have sako 85.

It at least mimics CRF action.
Factory advertised CRF action in model 85 until it was phased out.

Features:

1. Push bolt forward, chamber the round, do not lock the bolt, pull back, and cartridge is extracted. To do this with push feed and to extract, you need to lock and unlock the bolt.

2. Take the bolt out of receiver, put the cartridge locked under extractor claw, and it will hold in horizontal position. (not if you shake a bit)

Yes, it mimics the CRF action.

New Sako 90, they say it is push feed.