Very interesting! Not knowing anything about the Blaser rifles, are they all push feed actions? I see here on AH, many people think they’re the best rifle available, I just thought they were a CRF style action? Not that it really matters?Now this is progress! So what is your next big hairy hostile thing on the menu? Mine is a Russian Siberian Brown bear. I'll hunt him with a Blaser R8 - and dare I say it - in PUSH feed in .375. I seriously doubt that I am anymore inadequately armed than my buddy using a CZ in the same caliber. And I like the ergonomics, trigger, and reload capability of my choice much more than his claw extractor. That said, with the quality of most modern arms, I really do believe this is a bit of a irrelevant argument today.
And my Blaser really isn't a +1 - it's a four. Nothing quite like that cocking system.
Interesting? But unlike the Mauser, you could place a round in the chamber and the bolt would close on the round? Not that it makes any real world difference? But with a pistol, the real test is being able to load a magazine and chamber a round with your “weak” hand in a combat situation when your strong hand has become disabled? Takes some practice! Then try the same with your hunting rifle when your strong hand has been bitten by a black mamba and a Cape Buffalo is charging at you! Ha! Ha! Ha!I find it interesting that my Sig Sauer p226 is a controlled round feed in the sense that as soon as the round is stripped from the magazine is is sliding under the extractor. Not much different than a Mauser.
Not that one would have trouble with half stroking the slide, but it’s neat how it slides up from underneath instead of the extractor having to snap over the rim.
Yes, the extractor is spring loaded, but I’ve never felt the need to top off an 18 round mag after I chamber a round. And no, I see no real real world difference in that vs a push feed semi auto. It’s just interesting.Interesting? But unlike the Mauser, you could place a round in the chamber and the bolt would close on the round? Not that it makes any real world difference? But with a pistol, the real test is being able to load a magazine and chamber a round with your “weak” hand in a combat situation when your strong hand has become disabled? Takes some practice! Then try the same with your hunting rifle when your strong hand has been bitten by a black mamba and a Cape Buffalo is charging at you! Ha! Ha! Ha!
Ah , how pleasant to see you commenting on my articles . Your observations mirror my own .
For hunting non dangerous animals , l find a push feed configuration rifle to be perfectly acceptable .
However , when l am hunting something which could potentially hunt me back , that mauser type extracting claw device is very reassuring , to me .
I am a little intrigued when you refer to the Mannlicher rifle as a push feed configuration . During my time , a few of my clients had brought such rifles to India for Shikar : Three of them were calibrated for the .256 bore cartridge , while one was calibrated for the .375 Austrian Mannlicher cartridge .
I observed that all thos models were control round feed configuration .
Co Elk HunterMr. Rahman,
Would/could you please inform us as to how many rifle action failures you have seen/personally know about regarding the CRF vs. push feed action (or even doubles?) types during your many years hunting in India? Please exclude ammo, action modifications, scope issues, etc. Just the rifle actions themselves. Thank you!
Mark HunterDear mr Rahman, I said in the beginning you have opened a Pandora box with this topic... so far 75 posts, 4 pages...
This is a debate that started in 60-ies with winchester post-64, and rem 700, and never concluded, passed already to next generation of hunters.
And new generation started one more public debate: turn bolt actions vs. linear actions (aka blaser 08)... o man...!
Thats why the forums are for!
Thank you so much Kawshik!Co Elk Hunter
It would be my pleasure .
I will attempt to list them out below :
Push feed configuration :
One Remington model 700 , calibrated for .375 Holland and Holland magnum.
One Remington model 700 , calibrated for .458 Winchester magnum
One Remington model 700 , calibrated for .30-06 Springfield cartridge .
Two Winchester model 70 rifles , calibrated for the .458 Winchester magnum cartridge .
Two Winchester model 70 rifles , calibrated for the .308 Winchester cartridge .
One Weatherby rifle , calibrated for the .300 Weatherby magnum cartridge .
One Belgian Browning Hi Power rifle ( l understand that this is what you genltemen refer to , as FN mauser ) calibrated for the .458 Winchester Magnum cartridge.
. The trap door hatch on the under side of the rifle sprang open after the first shot was fired , making all the left over cartridges fall out on to the ground .
Control round feed configuration :
More than a dozen " custom " pieces made by gun-smiths using salvaged military surplus mauser mechanisms , with new barrels put on them .
The most feeding issues would occur with large calibre cartridges , such as .458 Winchester magnum and .375 Holland and Holland magnum .
It is push feed and it works with absolute reliability. The design allows the cartridges in the magazine to align exactly with the bore. The rear of the bullet is inclosed by the bolt head as it exits the magazine. I haven’t tried it, but I am confident you could operate it without a bobble hanging upside down in a sandstorm.Thanks! Didn’t know that?
Winchester made what they called a controlled round push feed for a few years. It had the standard push feed extractor, but the bottom of bolt head was not enclosed allowing it to act like a controlled round feed. It was very similar to Sako, but the Sako extractor is better.
Thanks for posting the pic Wyatt. Your comment on the Sako extractor being superior is spot on. I believe it would be difficult to identify an extractor with a worse design than the one shown, CRF or PF.
Thank you for explaining this. I’ve never seen one in person since the early 90s (maybe?) at a Sportsmans Expo. Next time I see one I’ll check it out! Thanks!It is push feed and it works with absolute reliability. The design allows the cartridges in the magazine to align exactly with the bore. The rear of the bullet is inclosed by the bolt head as it exits the magazine. I haven’t tried it, but I am confident you could operate it without a bobble hanging upside down in a sandstorm.
From a dangerous game perspective, the rifle’s short action gives you three inches more or less barrel length depending upon preference for the overall length of the rifle. And where a second shot is needed on either an exiting (most likely) or inbound animal, nothing but a double is quicker from the shoulder while maintaining target acquisition. Setting aside the fabulous ergonomics, trigger, and transportability of the R8, that latter attribute of being able to quickly and accurately “double tap” a still functioning duga boy is far more important to me than any traditional perceived advantage of CRF.
And look, I own and shoot a lot of ‘98 based designs. I love them. I have killed a bunch of African game with them. My Rigby .275 is my constant deer hunting companion these days. But only one of my doubles is as fast for a second aimed shot (and I deliberately used the term “as fast” rather than “faster”).
Somehow all of those attributes (or of any other push feed design) need to be also considered in weighing the value of that long extractor.