Second rifle options

[Matt_WY]

The hunt: Tanzania 16 days - leopard, buffalo, plains game

Primary rifle - 416 rem w/ 1-6 scope in qd mounts

I'd like to take a second gun. Keep bouncing between a couple options:

Option 1: 375 h&h w/2-12 scope in qd mounts

Advantages: if anything happens to the primary, I have a good replacement; even if 'just PG hunting' I still have a DG caliber in any hands if needed

Disadvantages: nearly a duplicate of the primary in terms of trajectory, etc, so not much actually value aside from the redundancy provided​

Option 2: a lighter caliber (338 wm? 300wm? 30-06?) w/ 2-12 scope in qd mounts

Advantages: flatter trajectory than primary rifle so easier for anything longer range; nicer to carry and nicer to shoot; can still swap out scope with primary if there is an issue with an optic

Disadvantages: No redundancy if my primary DG rifle goes down; hunting in DG country with a light rifle
​

Any thoughts? If Option 2, do I go as fast and flat as possible with the 200 wm and 200gr bullets or slightly heavier in 338wm and 250gr?

Half the fun is in the planning! Thanks guys!

 

[Velo Dog]

The hunt: Tanzania 16 days - leopard, buffalo, plains game

Primary rifle - 416 rem w/ 1-6 scope in qd mounts

I'd like to take a second gun. Keep bouncing between a couple options:

Option 1: 375 h&h w/2-12 scope in qd mounts

Advantages: if anything happens to the primary, I have a good replacement; even if 'just PG hunting' I still have a DG caliber in any hands if needed

Disadvantages: nearly a duplicate of the primary in terms of trajectory, etc, so not much actually value aside from the redundancy provided​

Option 2: a lighter caliber (338 wm? 300wm? 30-06?) w/ 2-12 scope in qd mounts

Advantages: flatter trajectory than primary rifle so easier for anything longer range; nicer to carry and nicer to shoot; can still swap out scope with primary if there is an issue with an optic

Disadvantages: No redundancy if my primary DG rifle goes down; hunting in DG country with a light rifle
​

Any thoughts? If Option 2, do I go as fast and flat as possible with the 200 wm and 200gr bullets or slightly heavier in 338wm and 250gr?

Half the fun is in the planning! Thanks guys!

Hi Matt_WY,

Good questions.
I’d say just bring the .416 for everything, it is unlikely that you will break it.
However, if breakage is a concern, then by all means bring two rifles.
So, I’d say also bring the .375 and 300 grain A-Frame bullets for suni to buffalo but, either put a smaller scope on it or, swear a blood oath to yourself that, you will keep it turned down while on those long foot treks through the coutadas.

Looking forward to your report and photos someday.

Cheers,
Paul.

 

[curtism1234]

What are the plains game you want to hunt and how many? Also what rifles do you currently own.

If you are only planning on a couple plains game that are large, it may not be worth bringing a second rifle just for simplicity sake. Then again, you may not want to lug around a 10 pound rifle any more than you have to though...

The 3006, 300, and 338 are fine choices but it depends on your needs and other hunting you plan to do in the future. If you are frequently going after 800 plus pound game, I think you may want the 300 or 338. If what you normally hunt is closer to 300-500 pounds, I think you'd do just fine with the 3006

 

[Matt_WY]

I’d say just bring the .416 for everything, it is unlikely that you will break it.

Oh...just saying that is the curse of death! I can break anything!

What are the plains game you want to hunt and how many? Also what rifles do you currently own.

The 3006, 300, and 338 are fine choices but it depends on your needs and other hunting you plan to do in the future. If you are frequently going after 800 plus pound game, I think you may want the 300 or 338. If what you normally hunt is closer to 300-500 pounds, I think you'd do just fine with the 3006

I already own the 300 and the 338; it would just be a matter of swapping around optics. I already use them both at home for elk, etc. PG can be anything I come across. I do prefer things with large horns, but this will by my first Africa hunt so I have a wide open slate of things I have never shot at before.

I guess it just comes down to how valuable is the redundancy vs how valuable is it to have something more optimal for longer shots.

 

[Red Leg]

Or you could forget the .40 and just bring the .375 you are contemplating, a pocket full of 300 gr A-Frames or TSXs, and shoot everything with that out to nearly 300 yards.

My prejudices show, but I really hate bag dragging, and a second rifle adds a lot to that frustration. (I have done it twice and sworn to never do it again). If I were going to Tanzania on a mixed-bag hunt including buffalo, then I would find a 400 gr SP that my .416 really liked and shoot everything with it. You will be in a wilderness area where having a rifle that can deal with the largest malcontent you might meet is a comfort. A 30-06 or .300 could be embarrassing should that elephant cow take exception to your presence and the PH somehow screws up.

I certainly wouldn't bring two DG calibers. So if you are determined to haul around two rifles, then I would make the second a capable, dedicated PG caliber. Either the .300 or .338 would be nearly ideal. My choice would be the .338, but largely because one of my favorite rifles that I own is a custom built Mauser in that caliber.

But again, were it me, the single rifle for the trip would be my R8 with .375 barrel in place. Were I you, with a .416 in the rack that I liked and trusted, it would be my choice.

 

[Witold Krzyżanowski]

I agree with Red Leg.

 

[meigsbucks]

I took a .416 Ruger (400gr Barnes TSX) and a .375 H&H (300gr Swift) to Zimbabwe on my first safari. I shot my buffalo and seven head of PG with the .416. Only took three head of PG with the .375.
My longest shot was ~180 yds with the .375 (impala). If a 300 + yard shot at a small target would have presented itself, it would have been tough. The .416 is a versatile tool but trajectory is an issue past 200 yds.
I personally prefer to have a second rifle. I think Red Leg has it pegged with cartridge choices of .300 or .338 for PG.

 

[Buckdog]

take the 416 and the 300wm. put them in a good two gun case. never know when you need to reach out and touch something and the 300wm will kill any plains game with a good 200gr bullet as far as you can shoot. the 416 is great but not past 200yds. You can always have one of the trackers carry the 2nd rifle.

 

[Matt_WY]

Sounds like the overwhelming view is the flexibility 300 or 338 over the redundancy of the 375. Thanks for the feedback!

 

[spike.t]

.416 and .300

 

[rookhawk]

.375 is the essential gun on EVERY safari. Plains game gun broken? The 375 is the backup. Dangerous game rifle broken? .375 will work.

There is no other gun that will save your rear under any situation from grysbok to elephant, klipspringer to buffalo. Bushbuck to Hippo.

The .375 is the only caliber that gives you 100% confidence in every single conceivable circumstance that your hunt isn't over when your primary gun is out of commission.

 

[JakeH]

Count me in the .375 camp as well. You are giving up some range to the .300WM but if your .416 craps out do you really want to be hunting the most expensive parts of your trip with a leased rifle?

 

[Shootist43]

Since DG is on the menu, I'd agree with rookhawk. I'd bring one box of ammo for the 416 and several or more boxes of 375 H&H ammo with different weight bullets. The 375 with a 350 Gr. bullet is good Buff. medicine, at least that is what I have read. Use 300 Gr. bullets for most of your other shooting and a box of lighter bullets for the small stuff. That would necessitate shooting all three bullet weights ahead of time so you know what scope adjustments might be necessary. You general know ahead of time what you are going to be hunting on any given day. If you take the Buff first, you are down to either the 300 Gr or smaller bullet as recommended by your PH.
IMHO problem / dilemma resolved.

 

[rookhawk]

Since DG is on the menu, I'd agree with rookhawk. I'd bring one box of ammo for the 416 and several or more boxes of 375 H&H ammo with different weight bullets. The 375 with a 350 Gr. bullet is good Buff. medicine, at least that is what I have read. Use 300 Gr. bullets for most of your other shooting and a box of lighter bullets for the small stuff. That would necessitate shooting all three bullet weights ahead of time so you know what scope adjustments might be necessary. You general know ahead of time what you are going to be hunting on any given day. If you take the Buff first, you are down to either the 300 Gr or smaller bullet as recommended by your PH.
IMHO problem / dilemma resolved.

If its plains game and dangerous game, .375 solids might be a workable all-around solution. Not sure I'd want softs on little stuff. Nonetheless, 5-10 DG softs and 10-15 DG solids (or double that if possible) is enough to cover every scenario should the 416 have an unfortunate incident.

 

[Art Lambart II]

I would opt for the 375 and just avoid shoots past 250 yards. The 375 is just to versatile for a combined DG and PG hunt to leave it at home. I would ask you PH what rifles and scopes he has for camp guns as well, I've beet to Africa twice and both times Delta left my guns in Atlanta, IMHO having a backup rifle is always a good idea even if the backup rifle is a camp gun. My biggest problem with camp guns is not the rifle/scope its generally the ammo, too often it's PMP or something similar. I can't imagine a DG outfitter without a 375 camp gun and your quality A-Frame or TTSX that you brought for your 375 that the airlines left in ATL will work just fine in you Outfitters camp gun.

 

[Rum Runner]

I would opt for the 375 and just avoid shoots past 250 yards. The 375 is just to versatile for a combined DG and PG hunt to leave it at home. I would ask you PH what rifles and scopes he has for camp guns as well, I've beet to Africa twice and both times Delta left my guns in Atlanta, IMHO having a backup rifle is always a good idea even if the backup rifle is a camp gun. My biggest problem with camp guns is not the rifle/scope its generally the ammo, too often it's PMP or something similar. I can't imagine a DG outfitter without a 375 camp gun and your quality A-Frame or TTSX that you brought for your 375 that the airlines left in ATL will work just fine in you Outfitters camp gun.

Delta left the guns in Atlanta...twice. Yikes! I guess in that case you are stuck with what ever is in camp, so all bets are off there. I'm going to Tanzania this August and my PH recommended two guns; I'm taking a .416 Rigby, and a .270 Win. with his approval (Cape Buff and Warthog on the menu). To be honest, my gut tells me the .270 is a little small...even for PG. Its all shot placement, of course, but I'm getting used to the .416. I might opt to do like Art suggests; take one rifle and get in close.

 

[Red Leg]

Since DG is on the menu, I'd agree with rookhawk. I'd bring one box of ammo for the 416 and several or more boxes of 375 H&H ammo with different weight bullets. The 375 with a 350 Gr. bullet is good Buff. medicine, at least that is what I have read. Use 300 Gr. bullets for most of your other shooting and a box of lighter bullets for the small stuff. That would necessitate shooting all three bullet weights ahead of time so you know what scope adjustments might be necessary. You general know ahead of time what you are going to be hunting on any given day. If you take the Buff first, you are down to either the 300 Gr or smaller bullet as recommended by your PH.
IMHO problem / dilemma resolved.

If its plains game and dangerous game, .375 solids might be a workable all-around solution. Not sure I'd want softs on little stuff. Nonetheless, 5-10 DG softs and 10-15 DG solids (or double that if possible) is enough to cover every scenario should the 416 have an unfortunate incident.

I believe that you all are over complicating things for this gentleman enormously. I have used the .375 a lot - to include four mixed bag hunts that included buffalo. I have never ever felt the need for anything heavier or lighter than a quality 300 gr bullet. I can shoot it as far as I would comfortably shoot an '06. I have killed Suni with it at maybe fifty feet and waterbuck, sable and black wildebeest at 250 meters plus. It is lethal on buffalo at any angle anyone would ever take a first shot, and in SP form (A-Frame or TSX), works perfectly on anything from reedbuck or impala up. For the truly itty bitty tiny guys, then use a solid. I would never use solids as a primary PG bullet. I have experimented with Woodleigh 300 gr Hydros as an all around bullet. They work - but not nearly as quickly as a quality SP. The same could be said for a .416 in 400 gr guise with the caution of a bit less range and a lot more weight to carry around in the heat.

If the OP is determined to bring his .416, I get it. It will be great on buff. If he wants to bring another rifle - fine. But in that case I would bring an optimal PG caliber like a .300 or .338. Could bring a .375 instead - but if so, a good 300 gr SP is all he needs.

 

[Matt_WY]

At this point, I am leaning towards the 375. Looking at the 375 cal offerings from Barnes I can potentially work up a load with 250gr Tipper TSX's that would shoot pretty darn flat -- not like a 300wm, but it would reach out as far as I can see the need to. So a combination of various loads in the 375 plus the 416 will probably do nicely.

 

[IvW]

If you have made up your mind that you are definitely taking your 416 Rem, the best companion would be the 300 WM loaded with a premium grade 200 gr bullet for the PG. The 338 WM is a fine PG caliber, with 250 gr premium grade bullets it can take all the PG in Africa.(as can the 300). The choice is yours and the deciding factor would be which one you are most comfortable with and shoot the best, both are more than adequate for all PG and Leopard.

I am not sure which make of rifle your 416 Rem is but, a proper DG rifle that has been rigorously tested and used before hand should not fail. If there are any doubts or issues with the rifle do not take it.

The other option would be to just take your 375 H&H for the animals you list and you will be ready for anything that comes your way. Using premium grade Expanding bullets are all you will need, you could pack a few solids if it would make you feel better.

I would suggest the Swift A frame's in 300 gr for the lot...

 

[rookhawk]

How far do you want to actually shoot? Using a DG load of 300gr out of a 375 it is 18" high at 345 yards if I remember correctly. 345 yards is a REALLY long way to shoot. It's the longest shot I've ever taken. The usual answer is "get closer". At 20o yards which again, is a really long shot, a 375 is point-and-click easy and flies like a laserbeam.