Wounded animals Survey

[Hogpatrol]

Culling with Nick Bowker, we were walking up a rocky road next to a ravine when a warthog appeared about 200m away. Nick set the sticks, I aimed for the lungs and it freezes, falls over and goes down with feet sticking straight up in the air. Nick turns around gives me the high five, says nice shot then we look and the warthog is gone. Hillside was loaded with holes he could have ran in to and never did find it.

 

[Mauser78]

Culling with Nick Bowker, we were walking up a rocky road next to a ravine when a warthog appeared about 200m away. Nick set the sticks, I aimed for the lungs and it freezes, falls over and goes down with feet sticking straight up in the air. Nick turns around gives me the high five, says nice shot then we look and the warthog is gone. Hillside was loaded with holes he could have ran in to and never did find it.

It is as if they get that extra strength if they holes is close by. They go for that whole with all they have left.

 

[JG26Irish_2]

My first trip to Africa was magic and the only animal that required a follow up shot was my Blue Wildebeest. But, I knew the feeling of thinking I had wounded and lost an animal when I shot a Gemsbok at 202y with my 308. The beast ran away as if it had never been hit and my PH was convinced that I had missed it. Later, I found the blood trail and we put some of the native trackers onto the trail and they found it dead only 60y away. What a relief!

My 2nd safari did not pan out quite so perfectly. On my second trip, everything required one or more followup shots. Despite loads of practice and preparation. My first animal was a Black WB at 314y. 1st shot dropped it but upon approach we found it struggling to get up and a 2nd shot was required. Second animal was a Springbok that I hit high and spined it. This required a shot by me with the PH's 9mm pistol to finish it. My Buffalo required 4 shots to kill plus a 5th for insurance. It was well hit but as long as it was standing, I was shooting. While hunting buffalo in Free State I smacked a Warthog at about 230y with my 7mm/08. It was hit hard but ran into a dense thorn thicket where the Buffalo were holed up. We searched but as far as we could tell it ducked into a burrow and could not be recovered. I later killed one at closer range with the same rifle.

A few days later in Limpopo I hit a Blesbok that while hit well took off on a dead run on 3 legs requiring a few fast off hand followups to down. My Kudu took two rounds of 375 to get down and one 9mm to finish. Sometimes the stars do not align.

Warthog 70y running quartering away. Entry wound visible in this photo - 7mm/08 Horn 139g CX

 

[Rafiki]

I was confused because there were only two choices for follow-up questions, which you can check simultaneously with the "yes." The only follow up choices were tracked the animal and finished it, and animal was wounded and never found. There were also follow-up questions for the species involved.

If there was a choice, "Animal needed a second shot to die where it stood," I'd have checked "yes." Anyway, I changed my vote, so I hope you're now happy.

I think I'll change my answer also.

 

[Twraska]

if you havent had the misfortune of a misplaced shot on an animal in Africa before.. chances are very high that you havent hunted Africa very much..

it sucks... but it happens..

in some cases its not even a bad shot issue.. its simply a will to live issue.. for example, my wife put a 7x57 bullet into a warthog at about 100 yards a few years back.. double lunged him (we found out later)..

he took off like someone had set him on fire.. thankfully leaving an ok (but not great) blood trail..

we followed him for the better part of an hour before it got too dark to continue on.. so we returned the next day with a couple of trackers and picked the trail back up.. another hour later, and a full kilometer from where he was shot (straight line distance, per the GPS.. which means he actually ran a lot longer than that), we found him.. he had scurried back to his hole..

while she never got a second shot in him (he was gone before the action could be cycled).. he definitely needed one.. even though the first shot was clearly a kill shot.. had it been a texas feral hog or a whitetail I am certain it would have gone 100 yards max (probably a whole lot less) and the hunt would have been done.

I don’t think of any feral hog in Texas as easy to kill. They often have dried clay mud (brick if you will) over 1.5-2” of armor that the bullet has to get through without exploding and yet make a lot of damage to the internals.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Probably safe to say the 11 people that answered "No" have not hunted in Africa

I'm not sure why a hunter would be more likely to make a poor shot hunting African game. Seems to me paying full trophy fee for anything that client draws blood would be an added incentive to not mess it up. Most places on this side of the pond the slob who takes a sloppy shot and loses a wounded animal still has a valid tag in his pocket he can use for another animal. Oh well.

 

[mark-hunter]

I'm not sure why a hunter would be more likely to make a poor shot hunting African game. Seems to me paying full trophy fee for anything that client draws blood would be an added incentive to not mess it up.

Shooting from sticks is a problem. And the distance can easily be 200 meters.

Most of the hunters in my vicinity have shot wild boars from a blind, rifle on rest, all their lives.
Then they go to Africa, and get a surprise. Shoot standing, from a stick. Ups!
And usually they dont shoot on paper. Bulits are expensive, and not for punching holes on paper, you know...

Booking agents like big numbers of hunters and do not advertise about skills required.
Pay and go.
But to be honest, I haven't seen an outfitter's web pages stating the importance of the client having a skill in shooting from a stick. And this is very specific way of hunting for Africa.

Yes, not to wound, and not to pay for wounding is an incentive. And moreover, springbok is one thing, but buffalo, lion, elephant or leopard is another level, and same rules apply, much higher trophy fees plus added risk of charge later.

But it does happen.

When I got more experience and was able to notice details by safari number 3, I was observing a group of hunters in the camp, and listening more carefully to small talk. I was hunting apart from them my list of animals, not being with them during daily outings, but bush TV tells a lot.

They had a roughly 20% wound-loss ratio. Including one sable.

 

[Mauser78]

Shooting from sticks is a problem. And the distance can easily be 200 meters.

Most of the hunters in my vicinity have shot wild boars from a blind, rifle on rest, all their lives.
Then they go to Africa, and get a surprise. Shoot standing, from a stick. Ups!
And usually they dont shoot on paper. Bulits are expensive, and not for punching holes on paper, you know...

Booking agents like big numbers of hunters and do not advertise about skills required.
Pay and go.
But to be honest, I haven't seen an outfitter's web pages stating the importance of the client having a skill in shooting from a stick. And this is very specific way of hunting for Africa.

Yes, not to wound, and not to pay for wounding is an incentive. And moreover, springbok is one thing, but buffalo, lion, elephant or leopard is another level, and same rules apply, much higher trophy fees plus added risk of charge later.

But it does happen.

When I got more experience and was able to notice details by safari number 3, I was observing a group of hunters in the camp, and listening more carefully to small talk. I was hunting apart from them my list of animals, not being with them during daily outings, but bush TV tells a lot.

They had a roughly 20% wound-loss ratio. Including one sable.

For me sticks is fine on its own, but put wobbly legs, out of breath, uneven footing and an actual animal in the mix, and it becomes a whole lot more difficult.

 

[mark-hunter]

In such situations, do not shoot. Hunters have advantage to choose the moment (in most of the cases) .
Of course, deciding not to shoot the first day, is not the same as deciding not to shoot the prime animal last day.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Shooting from sticks is a problem. And the distance can easily be 200 meters.

Most of the hunters in my vicinity have shot wild boars from a blind, rifle on rest, all their lives.
Then they go to Africa, and get a surprise. Shoot standing, from a stick. Ups!
And usually they dont shoot on paper. Bulits are expensive, and not for punching holes on paper, you know...

Booking agents like big numbers of hunters and do not advertise about skills required.
Pay and go.
But to be honest, I haven't seen an outfitter's web pages stating the importance of the client having a skill in shooting from a stick. And this is very specific way of hunting for Africa.

Yes, not to wound, and not to pay for wounding is an incentive. And moreover, springbok is one thing, but buffalo, lion, elephant or leopard is another level, and same rules apply, much higher trophy fees plus added risk of charge later.

But it does happen.

When I got more experience and was able to notice details by safari number 3, I was observing a group of hunters in the camp, and listening more carefully to small talk. I was hunting apart from them my list of animals, not being with them during daily outings, but bush TV tells a lot.

They had a roughly 20% wound-loss ratio. Including one sable.

I don't see unfamiliarity with sticks as a big issue ... for a shooter familiar with hunting. My first safari I had never seen, let alone used, sticks before. But before noon of the first day I killed three animals with three shots: blesbuck, impala, and blue wildebeest (plus warthog offhand two shots). My PH commented that only once before he'd seen wildebeest tipped over with one shot. My response was Helen Keller could have made that shot off those sticks.

I don't count shooting anything from a blind or over bait as "hunting experience." Spending a lot of time at the range might get the gun in order and teach the shooter basics but those basics can easily go out the window once he's in the field actually doing some hunting and face to face with game.

I suspect there is some truth to Africa
placing greater pressure on the hunter that could, and probably does, affect productivity. For many it's a once in a lifetime affair involving considerable expense. Naturally, one desires to make the experience memorable enough to justify the extraordinary cost of time and money. Just how one decides to "make it worth it" can significantly impact how effective his shooting is. I have learned to value the experience more than the trophies acquired. Last time I finished with only three animals (not counting the yearling wildebeest the PH mistakenly had me shoot). The impala was very good but gemsbuck and springbuck, respectively my third and fifth of those two species, were nothing special. And I never got a shot at buffalo with the 404 I built expressly for hunting them (two were already on the wall). I missed a couple of shots at both the springbuck and gemsbuck but eventually got them. We hunted hard for another waterbuck but never even saw a bull. I still had a memorable time. Very relaxing. I always feel like I've been reborn when I return. That's enough for me. Unfortunately, it's not enough for most guys, especially if their buddies are along to judge each others' "success." Unfortunately, it sometimes is not good enough for lodge operators or PHs who get paid, at least partially, by results in the salt at the end of the day. I am lucky to have had PHs, with one exception, who would never insist I take poor shots at animals simply for the sake of punching out a trophy fee.

 

[mdwest]

I don’t think of any feral hog in Texas as easy to kill. They often have dried clay mud (brick if you will) over 1.5-2” of armor that the bullet has to get through without exploding and yet make a lot of damage to the internals.

They’re generally not as easy to put down as a whitetail.

But I’ve yet to find one 1/10th as armor plated as online myths would have people believe…

My best guess is I’ve taken 500 or more pigs in the last 10 years alone with everything from 8” fixed blade knives to 375 H&H… at least 1/2 of them have been taken with a 308 shooting 168gr TTSX… a few (maybe a dozen?) have been taken with @Bob Nelson 35Whelen ’s favorite combo, a .243 shooting 100 gr TTSX….

I’ve never had a bullet not reach vitals… didn’t matter if I was shooting my smallest hogs ( < 50 lbs) or my largest (588lbs.. which happens have been taken with the 243)…

 

[Twraska]

They’re generally not as easy to put down as a whitetail.

But I’ve yet to find one 1/10th as armor plated as online myths would have people believe…

My best guess is I’ve taken 500 or more pigs in the last 10 years alone with everything from 8” fixed blade knives to 375 H&H… at least 1/2 of them have been taken with a 308 shooting 168gr TTSX… a few (maybe a dozen?) have been taken with @Bob Nelson 35Whelen ’s favorite combo, a .243 shooting 100 gr TTSX….

I’ve never had a bullet not reach vitals… didn’t matter if I was shooting my smallest hogs ( < 50 lbs) or my largest (588lbs.. which happens have been taken with the 243)…

For reference, the guy skinning the hog is 6’6” and has long fingers. He has actually killed hogs with a bullet lodged in the armor.

To get an idea how tough it is, think cartilage tough. Can’t really cut it but if you drive a knife in it you can wedge it against a bone and pull up.

This one do not have dried on clay as he was taken from a sandy prairie and the river is pure sand.

 

[mdwest]

How many hogs have you personally killed, then processed and inspected? Are you citing internet sources or friends statements or your own personal experience?

I’m not saying feral Texas pigs don’t have thick hides.

I am saying I haven’t seen one yet that a 62gr bonded 223 won’t kill… and when you step up to anything larger, killing them is that much easier…

The “armor” you describe is an exaggeration… they are far from armored…

But what would I know… the dozen or so hog hunts I do every year, the group hog hunts that I organize every year.. with a dozen or more hunters that kills 20 or more in a single weekend… having killed them in north Texas, east Texas, and central Texas from as far north as Sherman to as far south just a few miles outside of Houston for the better part of the last 15 years… clearly I’m ignorant of pig anatomy and ballistics lol…

FWIW, I’ve been pattering this guy for the last 2 weeks.. it’s a fairly strong possibility he’ll be the next one to fall to a 308… if I’m fortunate it will be in the next 3 hours… (he hits that same feeder daily within an hour of last light, and typically within an hour of first light)…

 

[mark-hunter]

I have learned to value the experience more than the trophies acquired.

Me too!

I always feel like I've been reborn when I return.

Me too!

That's enough for me. Unfortunately, it's not enough for most guys, especially if their buddies are along to judge each others' "success."

There is a difference between a first-time hunter going to Africa, and a hunter going to Safari multiple times, or every year.
First timer, wants everything to take home! Everything! And many experienced safari hunters just want experience. Not all are like that. But many. Some will never change, I guess, but I know I have changed since my first time!

 

[Twraska]

How many hogs have you personally killed, then processed and inspected? Are you citing internet sources or friends statements or your own personal experience?

I’m not saying feral Texas pigs don’t have thick hides.

I am saying I haven’t seen one yet that a 62gr bonded 223 won’t kill… and when you step up to anything larger, killing them is that much easier…

The “armor” you describe is an exaggeration… they are far from armored…

But what would I know… the dozen or so hog hunts I do every year, the group hog hunts that I organize every year.. with a dozen or more hunters that kills 20 or more in a single weekend… having killed them in north Texas, east Texas, and central Texas from as far north as Sherman to as far south just a few miles outside of Houston for the better part of the last 15 years… clearly I’m ignorant of pig anatomy and ballistics lol…

FWIW, I’ve been pattering this guy for the last 2 weeks.. it’s a fairly strong possibility he’ll be the next one to fall to a 308… if I’m fortunate it will be in the next 3 hours… (he hits that same feeder daily within an hour of last light, and typically within an hour of first light)…

View attachment 718163

If it matters that much to you,,,, we (myself, landlord, son and workers) hunt on average, twice a week, all year long. When crops are being destroyed, someone is always looking, every night. We generally do not pickup any hog over 120ish, and then only if we need some pork for deer sausage. We are normally just killing them to protect crops. As to how many you shoot vs how many we shoot, does it matter? You don’t believe me on how tough the “armor” is and you don’t seem to believe the pics I posted. I have more pics but I’m busy and don’t have time to dig more up. If you every want to come my way and see for yourself, give me a shout and you’re more than welcome to come with us.

 

[Mauser78]

Very interesting to see the results, and I think overall this community is better prepared for their hunts than the normal hunter.

 

[mark-hunter]

Two movies, worth watching. PH's on big game hunting.

 

[migrabill]

I shot my Silver SCI Blue Wildebeest from 148 yards away. As soon as I pulled the trigger, he dropped in his tracks. However my PH said I had hit him and high and spined him. Sure enough he started thrashing about, trying to get up. We closed to about 120. I fired a 2nd shot. This time the shot was placed perfectly and he got real still real quick. .308.

 

[BTP-KennethWRoyce]

For plains game, I would think a 30-378 WBY caliber with a high quality LPVO 1-6 or 1-8 (Swarovski, Leupold, Trijicon) would do the trick on any plains game under 400 yards. The 30-378 WBY is flat shooting out to 1,000+ yards and could be the ultimate plains game cartridge?

You've already taken some guff for this claim, which was likely misspoken.
As we all know, the only thing "flat shooting out to 1,000+ yards" is a laser beam.
And during that beam's 3 microseconds of travel it is pulled downward by gravity ~0.0000000018".
I.e., nothing is truly "flat shooting" on Earth, not even light.

But, I take your point about the relatively flat shooting .30-.378 Wby. Nevertheless, its impact velocities on PG would be a meat-wasting to 200yds, and at 300yds what the .30-06 is at MV.

With your 300yds PG limit, a .30-06 zeroed for 200yds is usually sufficient on light PG out to 300.

I just think that plains game should be under 300 yards, and DG should be within 50 yards.

Very sensible, and it demands consistent stalking skills.
Getting closer has a myriad of cascading benefits.
Think of it this way: if the distance is far enough to need the sticks...are you actually so far away to cheat yourself out of a thrilling stalk?

[300yd PG limit and 50yd DG limit] is a good way to not make the most of a trip.

Wounding animals from unsporting (or incompetent) distances is a good way of ruining a trip.
Getting closer reduces in every way the risk of wounding.

btw, you mentioned only your leg-shot oryx, but neglected your gut-shot zebra:

I feel very steady and take the shot. I hear the report and solid smack. A hit! I reloaded the single shot and get ready, that’s when Santos says “I think it was a gut shot…”

4 zebra all run up out of the ravine some 400 yards away but we don’t shoot, they are all healthy. As they go over to the other side and out of sight we see one more… it’s our stallion. Slowly climbing and blood on his mid side. He was going for the top. I shoot quickly as he’s cresting. Santos says he thinks he heard the hit and maybe saw the zebra drop?

The grass is tall and we still can’t find any blood. We now know that the first shot was very far back...
My second shot was pure luck and hit the back of the neck as he ran away.

_________
For me, one animal was recovered after tracking and finished off
During my 2nd safari (1st in RSA) at the end of a long day a very nice 52½" Kudu showed himself, standing still quartering away. We hadn't sticks at the moment. I made a 100yd offhand shot when tired that I suspected to be insufficiently steady, and thus made everybody pay for my mistake with a long follow-up. In thanks (and in penance) for the crew's effort, I took the entire camp out to a nice dinner. Moral: it is so much easier to shoot well than clean up after a sloppy shot you shouldn't have taken. Since then, I haven't pressed trigger on anything with <90% confidence. (I also got over my kudu vudu by dry-firing at them at any opportunity. It worked.)

For me, one animal was wounded and never found
I wounded a very large (100kg/220lb) bushpig because I misjudged his size through the tall grass at 25yds. Although the 300gr TSX from my Marlin .45-70 perfectly did its job (creating a "no-man's land" exit wound), missing entirely what I thought was the boiler room. He ran off like a locomotive, and we tracked him in dense riverbed for hours. By afternoon, his wound had congealed and we lost blood spoor. Quite the bummer! (My PH remarked that it may well have survived, not that I didn't have to pay the full trophy fee.)

I've taken 52 animals in Africa, and lost that one. I try hard to make it the last one, ever.

Some hunters can be pretty flippant about wounding, and a lack of remorse/shame pisses me off.
(My verbal response varies, depending on if I'm a client or an assistant PH .)

Most PHs gloss over casual wounding in public, but bitterly complain about it behind closed doors.
If bad shooting is chronic, then a stern conversation will at last occur!

Jeff Cooper had a tidy bit of advice on field shooting:
Get as close as you can, and then as steady as you can.
When you are as close and as steady as you can, take the shot only with at least 90% confidence.
Otherwise, pass on it. There will be other opportunities.
Good hunting!