30-06...again

[ElevenBravo]

I not believe that there is a difference in bone mass, body type and muscle/fat/hide between a blue wildebeest and a golden wildebeest. The two are distinguished by the genetics of their hair color. If it will work on a blue wildebeest, it will work on a golden wildebeest. No need to go up on caliber, bullet weight or muzzle velocity. 30-06 is fine as is a .308 with a heavy bullet. Have fun, good hunting and no need to spend additional money working up a new load.

Thank you, this is the kind of answer I was hoping to get.

 

[steve white]

On the advice of this forum, I changed out the handloads for my wife's -06 from Barnes 180gr TSX @ 2400fps to a 150gr TSX @ 2900fps as the goal was to reach that velocity to produce reliable expansion while making the recoil manageable and she can consistently put shots where needed. Her primary target is a golden wildebeest which is a relative of the blue, and they are considered to be rather tanky. After watching a few videos and interviews with PHs on Youtube and reading some previous threads here, it seems like a heavier bullet is preferred. I emailed the outfit I'm using asking about bullet weight and velocity and got a canned response "180gr Swifts are our preferred bullet, Barnes second" but no mention of velocity.

Now, there's no way of propelling a 180gr Barnes out of an -06 to 2900fps that wouldn't turn the gun into a pipe bomb. According to Barnes' reloading data, I was getting almost max velocity for a 180 using H4985. Other common powders aren't getting much more velocity gains. I could get somewhat near 2900fps with 165gr but using powder that I don't have ready access to and unsure if I could get enough anyway.

So here's what I know:

• yes, shot placement matters, but shot placement alone isn't the only factor
• Despite good shot placement, you need to be able to hit the vitals for placement to matter which brings us to...
• Sectional density matters for penetration, that's why PHs are asking for 180s. The SD between the 150 and 180 aren't that much different (.226 vs .271)
• which brings us to velocity. KE = .5mv^2 so velocity is a huge part of the kinetic energy equation, more input than bullet mass.

Now, I've done the calculations, and Barnes' recommended minimum velocity for reliable expansion for the TSX line is 2000fps. For the 180gr @ 2400, that gives me 250 yards of distance which is more than twice what my outfitter says the typical engagement range is for where we are hunting. I'm not sure why someone said I have to have the -06 going at 300Winmag velocity, probably my fault for taking that statement at face value.

So I'm looking for good recommendations here for a 30-06 load or performance parameters that can be fired by a 110 pound woman that stands a good chance of flattening a golden wildebeest. Will a 150gr Barnes @ 2900fps drop one? Will a 180gr @ 2400fps do it? Do I need bullets tipped with lead azide? At this point, I'm ready to just have the Ruger melted down and have her use my 7Backcountry.

Split the difference with a 165 gr.!

 

[BTP-KennethWRoyce]

If it were me (and it was), I'd choose 200gr Swift A-Frame for my .30-06 or .308.
(180gr is fine, but my experience prefers 200gr.)

A-Frame expansion is reliable at lower-than-TSX velocities, and weight retention is 95%.

I just don't think 150gr TSX is the .30-06 best answer for Africa. Adequate, yes, but not optimal.

I don’t worry about SD with Barnes. I can overcome SD with speed and get a better terminal ballistics. Some guys even shoot 130gr out of 308s and get exits on elk.

That is certainly one philosophy, and I'm not doubting its effectiveness, however I prefer to trade off a bit of velocity (within reason) for bullet weight (again, within reason). I like heavy-for-caliber at 2400-2600fps MV. Reliable killers with little meat wasted.

A third of my 52 African animals were stalked <50yds, and 90% were <100yds. Now, somebody routinely shooting 200-350yds may like a faster/lighter bullet, and I get that.

Shot Placement über alles!

 

[BTP-KennethWRoyce]

11B - I’ll provide my last two Safari’s (‘25 and ‘26) using a 30-06 shot, mainly, by my 5’ tall 110 lb daughter.

Rifle: REM 700 CDL with 21” barrel (I had cut), suppressed. Stock cut to fit her with 12.75” LOP. With Zeiss scope and suppressor it weighs 7lbs, 10oz. She’s isn’t very big and she handles this like a witch’s wand!

Bullets: Hand-loaded 168gr TTSX running 2725fps. I can easily push them a bit faster, but this is the rifle’s “sweet spot”.

Those are fine ballistics, and easily attainable in a .308 if she wanted to save another ½ lb.
She may like to try out a .308 Scout-variant sometime.
Very nice shooting by your daughter!

She can shoot 180gr @ 2400fps all day, that's what she's been shooting for years. But someone here said "2400 too slow, you need 2900 for reliable expansion in plains game" and I took them at their word.

If a well-placed good bullet impacts at 2200-2400fps, that is a great balance between KE and penetration. Hence, her 180gr/2400fps MV will be fine <200yds. (I believe that MVs <2200fps begin to pay a penalty, thus I've warmed to the .30-30 or 500gr .458 Win Mag.)

However, with a bit of practice 180gr/2550fps or 200/2450fps will give her 100yds more range, yet still be comfortable.

 

[randallhebert]

On the advice of this forum, I changed out the handloads for my wife's -06 from Barnes 180gr TSX @ 2400fps to a 150gr TSX @ 2900fps as the goal was to reach that velocity to produce reliable expansion while making the recoil manageable and she can consistently put shots where needed. Her primary target is a golden wildebeest which is a relative of the blue, and they are considered to be rather tanky. After watching a few videos and interviews with PHs on Youtube and reading some previous threads here, it seems like a heavier bullet is preferred. I emailed the outfit I'm using asking about bullet weight and velocity and got a canned response "180gr Swifts are our preferred bullet, Barnes second" but no mention of velocity.

Now, there's no way of propelling a 180gr Barnes out of an -06 to 2900fps that wouldn't turn the gun into a pipe bomb. According to Barnes' reloading data, I was getting almost max velocity for a 180 using H4985. Other common powders aren't getting much more velocity gains. I could get somewhat near 2900fps with 165gr but using powder that I don't have ready access to and unsure if I could get enough anyway.

So here's what I know:

• yes, shot placement matters, but shot placement alone isn't the only factor
• Despite good shot placement, you need to be able to hit the vitals for placement to matter which brings us to...
• Sectional density matters for penetration, that's why PHs are asking for 180s. The SD between the 150 and 180 aren't that much different (.226 vs .271)
• which brings us to velocity. KE = .5mv^2 so velocity is a huge part of the kinetic energy equation, more input than bullet mass.

Now, I've done the calculations, and Barnes' recommended minimum velocity for reliable expansion for the TSX line is 2000fps. For the 180gr @ 2400, that gives me 250 yards of distance which is more than twice what my outfitter says the typical engagement range is for where we are hunting. I'm not sure why someone said I have to have the -06 going at 300Winmag velocity, probably my fault for taking that statement at face value.

So I'm looking for good recommendations here for a 30-06 load or performance parameters that can be fired by a 110 pound woman that stands a good chance of flattening a golden wildebeest. Will a 150gr Barnes @ 2900fps drop one? Will a 180gr @ 2400fps do it? Do I need bullets tipped with lead azide? At this point, I'm ready to just have the Ruger melted down and have her use my 7Backcountry.

Shot my giraffe with the 06 165 gr TTSX and it didn't go 100 yards.

 

[BeeMaa]

Shot my giraffe with the 06 165 gr TTSX and it didn't go 100 yards.

Yeah, but @ElevenBravo is anit-tipped bullet.

Love to see a picture of the giraffe.

 

[randallhebert]

Yeah, but @ElevenBravo is anit-tipped bullet.

Love to see a picture of the giraffe.

 

[randallhebert]

Trying to load it but service isn't good where we're at

 

[Flipper Dude]

@BTP-KennethWRoyce
That is certainly one philosophy, and I'm not doubting its effectiveness, however I prefer to trade off a bit of velocity (within reason) for bullet weight (again, within reason). I like heavy-for-caliber at 2400-2600fps MV. Reliable killers with little meat wasted.

A third of my 52 African animals were stalked <50yds, and 90% were <100yds. Now, somebody routinely shooting 200-350yds may like a faster/lighter bullet, and I get that.

This is where I’m at as well. I like to get as close as possible for the shot. Don’t want any challenges on shots. I’ve taken a few in the past but they were few and far between. (See what I did there?)

I simply enjoy getting close to the animal. I suppose that’s why I only bow hunt here at home.

To be honest, if a person is hunting plains game in most places in Southern Africa, a blown stalk simply provides another chance later that same day or the next day or the next.

 

[DieJager]

@BTP-KennethWRoyce
That is certainly one philosophy, and I'm not doubting its effectiveness, however I prefer to trade off a bit of velocity (within reason) for bullet weight (again, within reason). I like heavy-for-caliber at 2400-2600fps MV. Reliable killers with little meat wasted.

A third of my 52 African animals were stalked <50yds, and 90% were <100yds. Now, somebody routinely shooting 200-350yds may like a faster/lighter bullet, and I get that.

This is where I’m at as well. I like to get as close as possible for the shot. Don’t want any challenges on shots. I’ve taken a few in the past but they were few and far between.

I simply enjoy getting close to the animal. I suppose that’s why I only bow hunt here at home.

To be honest, if a person is hunting plains game in most places in Southern Africa, a blown stalk simply provides another chance later that same day or the next day or the next.

Completely agree, my farthest shot up to date in Africa was around 150 meters (iirc), would have to check my notes, but that was an outlier.

I love stalking, a failed stalk is just training for the next one to be better. If not successful, that is hunting.

I cringe when I see people take really long shots, not my cup of tea but to each his own.

 

[LeftySixgun]

Does anyone have any experience with 180 or 200gr Speer Hot-Cor bullets in the 30-06 in Africa?

 

[DieJager]

Trying to load it but service isn't good where we're at

Could be that the file size is too big, AH is really picky with file sizes.

 

[BTP-KennethWRoyce]

(I believe that MVs <2200fps begin to pay a penalty, thus I've [not] warmed to the .30-30 or 500gr .458 Win Mag.)

 

[BTP-KennethWRoyce]

I like to get as close as possible for the shot. Don’t want any challenges on shots.
I simply enjoy getting close to the animal. I suppose that’s why I only bow hunt here at home.

Agree entirely.
Stalking closer has cascading benefits:

— magnum calibers, rangefinders, complex ballistic calcs are decreasingly less needed​

— bullet drop and windage become less relevant​

— bullet energy increases (bettering the odds of a trackable exit wound)​

— shot placement is more assured​

— bullet time-of-flight decreases, thus risk of sudden animal movement decreases​

— it increasingly feels like hunting vs. long-range killing​

— it more challenging and fun!​

(Increasing shot distance has the cascading detriments.)

Animals have their own concentric circles of Awareness Range and Startle Range.
To kill from beyond their Awareness Range is missing out on much of the hunting experience.
However, to stalk within their Startle Range (as bow hunters must do) shows real skill.
I prefer to stalk as a bow hunter, then press trigger on 2000+ ft-lbs within 50yds.

One of my all-time favorite stalks was 100yds of "hoovering" with my PH to get within 10yds of several zebra. (We really didn't expect to get so close, but were keen to try. My PH and I in retrospect were as gleeful as boys.) I had a line of waist-high line of brush in front of me, and I sloooowly hinged up from hoover to "California kneeling" muzzle-on with my Marlin .45-70 Scout rifle. They were so close that the 2.5x Scout scope was excessive! As they began to wonder in growing alarm what I was and moved from my right to my left, I turreted CCW. My PH later said that I was about 90+° turreted before I let fly 350gr of Swift A-Frame to the shoulder. DRT.

I don't think that stalk will ever be repeated. A 150yd shot off sticks could not have provided a smidgen of the joy I otherwise received by closing within rock-throwing range to that herd.

Think of it this way: if the distance is far enough to need the sticks...are you actually so far away to cheat yourself out of a thrilling stalk?

 

[ElevenBravo]

Yeah, but @ElevenBravo is anit-tipped bullet.

Love to see a picture of the giraffe.

It really chaps your ass that I have an opinion, doesn't it?

 

[BeeMaa]

It really chaps your ass that I have an opinion, doesn't it?

I'm loosing sleep.

 

[ElevenBravo]

Loosing sleep.