Tipping Guide

Discussion in 'Safari Planning Guide' started by AfricaHunting.com, Dec 1, 2008.

  1. Cam Moon

    Cam Moon AH Senior Member

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    Michael, I tend to agree with you that it has gotten out of hand and that it is difficult for someone who is less "financially fortunate" to follow suit after someone has gave a huge tip! I agree that it fuels unrealistic expectations. I would like to clarify a couple things though. You said that tipping is a way of showing your appreciation for Superior service. (Well above average) So, with that in mind, hypothetically, what would happen if you went someplace and received average service? Would you not tip at all?
    I also wanted to clarify when you said that 10% is the norm. What do you base your 10% on? 10% of what?
    Thanks
     

  2. Red Leg

    Red Leg AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    Michael, I just deleted a very angry post. If you will reread yours, you basically called out anyone who tipped more than your 10% "norm" an egoist for tipping that amount and apparently a liar if they gave any other reason for that tip. In several previous posts, I explained what I tipped and why. In several cases (though not all), that exceeded your 10% "norm." I will assume you really weren't calling me out personally as an egotistical liar - and I will admit that I am a Southerner and fairly touchy about such things. I also would suggest, pronouncing the "norm" for the rest of the hunting (maybe service?) industry is 10% might be challenged as a rather arrogantly egotistical position to take. Just saying.

    If you would get out more, you would find the "norm" for restaurant industry has been 15 % for at least fifty years in the US - at least where I have eaten. If you charter a boat in the Gulf, off Hatteras, in the Caribbean, wherever, you will often see a small sign letting you know that the mate works for tips and 15% is the norm (sometimes 20%). If your PH makes a suggestion, he is essentially doing the same thing. If you don't like that, fine - buy a cane pole or get another outfitter.

    Finally, most successful people that I know got that way through hard work and some luck along the way. They weren't trust fund babies or the beneficiaries of some rich uncle's estate. If some of those people occasionally want to be generous with some of that good fortune, then I think that speaks well of them. It is a generosity of spirit which probably should be applauded rather than condemned or somehow seen as threatening.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
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  3. jeff

    jeff AH Legend

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    Red Leg I don't think he was targeting you or anyone else, just giving his opinion as we all do on these forums.
     
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  4. mark-hunter

    mark-hunter AH Enthusiast

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    This is my impression, as well. I dont see any reason for hard feelings.
     
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  5. wesheltonj

    wesheltonj AH Elite

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    I am sure I have already posted this, but I HATE tipping. It is no longer a reward for great service. Instead it has become a way for those employers in the service trade to pay less and expect their customers to pay the tip to bring their employees up to that they should be making in the first place. Give me the Club Med method - all in for one price - any day. Short of that, the Round-up as practiced in Europe.
     

  6. mark-hunter

    mark-hunter AH Enthusiast

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    What is round - up pricing method? Sorry, I am just not familiar with the term?
     

  7. Red Leg

    Red Leg AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    In much ]of Europe one simply leaves the change to round up to the nearest Euro or so rather than a percentage. Though that is changing in some of the larger cities.
     
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  8. mark-hunter

    mark-hunter AH Enthusiast

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    Yes, this is true!

    I was a bit confused, jumping to conclusion that this is some way of price setting system for trophies.
    Thanks for clarification!
     

  9. Coldswede

    Coldswede AH Senior Member

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    In Sweden unless on very internationally centered restaurant we generally dont tip much at all.

    Im in agreement with the poster above, an employer should pay his employees enough that they dont need the tip and the tip is bonus for services beyond just the regular.
     
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  10. Michael Dean

    Michael Dean AH Enthusiast

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    Red Leg, I apologize if in any way you thought I was directing my comments at you, they were not. My comments are targeted at some of the egotists that I've had the misfortune to share camp with. I've had the unfortunate experience of dealing with individuals, one experience in particular, who flashed money in camp and tried to impress anyone who would listen that he had money. It didn't matter that he was a pathetic sportsman and couldn't shoot to save his life, he believed that he deserved to be first in line simply because he had a fist full of 100 dollar bills. He tipped not to show his appreciation for someone's hard work, he tipped simply to impress.

    I've been fortunate in business, done well financially and can tip 20% if I wanted to. The reason for my rant is the unfortunate experiences with a few that in my point of view have damaged the reputation of Americans by their arrogance. I should have been more specific in my post as to who and why I was upset about the big tipper. When I mentioned 10% it was 10% of the cost of the hunt less the cost of flights. I hope this clarified my previous post.
     
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  11. Von S.

    Von S. AH Fanatic

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    It's really all so simple.

    Tipping has just got way out of hand.

    Everyone in all walks of life looks to get tipped for doing their job no matter how well or poorly they do it.

    Yesterday I had to go to some medical testing place and was supplied with some sort of half assed medical transportation. Pretty long Ride and no conversation with either one of these zombies. Oh well.

    Got there, opened my door, got out and shut the door as these two obviously were crippled.

    Went in did what I had to and went over and they were sleeping. I got in and woke the angels up.

    I had to fast before my appointment for 24 hours so I was hungry and asked them if they could pull into the fast food which they said they couldn't,even though the smell of Burger King wafted inside the vehicle and two empty bags on the floor. Ok.

    Pulled up in front of the house and the must who was driving came right out and told me what their normal tip was for a ride so long I once again opened up my door and got out and told them to pound sand and left the door open and went in.

    Tips?

    The guy who cuts the lawn always wants a tip, yet forgets to blow off the sidewalks,, the boob behind the counter of the convienance store wants a tip for ringing up my pack of over priced gum, the waitress at the restaurant who got our entire order wrong 3 times and I don't mean a little wrong like medium rare steak instead of rare, I mean like a fried chicken dinner instead of prime rib....when I told her we were calling it quits for the night she said that her time was worth at least a 10 dollar tip.

    To me a "tip" is deserved by people who go above and beyond, and not some schlub who does just the minimum to get by and keep their job.

    If you buy a package that includes all meals didn't you already pay for them? Do you really have to tip the guy who works on the vehicles or mows the lawns?

    Do you tip the cooks or the enginemen on a cruise ship?

    Have you ever taken over 20 out to eat to find out that the restaurant automatically adds 15% to your bill? Like you are now obligated to pay an extra because you brought the more business than normal? And pay it even if the service sucked?

    The ultimate job of every man in the military is not to die, but to make others die for their country. Their killing doesn't happen all the time as we don't constantly kill, so maybe it's extraordinary. Why don't we tip them?

    Maybe we should just tip the extraordinary in everything?
     

  12. WINCHESTER JAKE

    WINCHESTER JAKE AH Member

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    Here is what I say about tipping. I say that the outfitters must not be paying their pHs and staff enough. The way to resolve this for the outfitter to just go ahead And add the total amount of tips expected to the price of the Safari and just tell the client these are going for tips. And then the client can either except or decline and that’s the end of that. When it comes right down to it the pH and the staff expect a certain amount of tips. If they work for an outfitter that tells them you never have to worry about tips because we added into the price of the Safari then everyone is happy.
    I think the first outfitter that does this will set a trend and of course make all the outfitters mad except the pH and the staff and the clients who will all be happy. The only thing I can see wrong with this if there are some unscrupulous outfitters who will hang on to the money and line their own pockets without paying the pH and staff for the amount in tips that was given by the client in advance. It should not exceed 10%.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019

  13. jeff

    jeff AH Legend

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    I received a brochure the other day from a SA outfitter and they suggested for their plains game hunts to tip the PH $100 a day and the the staff $50 so a 7 day hunt would be $ 1,050 seems pretty high to me.
     

  14. JimP

    JimP AH Elite

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    Is that tipping the staff $50 a day? Sounds a little bit much to me also.

    On my hunt I gave my PH $100 US per day and my tracker $100 for the trip. Other than that $50 is about what I gave the rest of all the staff. But I did give the skinners 50 SA Rand for each animal that they skinned out for me.
     

  15. Michael Dean

    Michael Dean AH Enthusiast

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    I think it's rude and presumptuous for an outfitter to be suggesting what an appropriate tip should be. You don't advise them what they should be paying their staff so why should be be advising you what an appropriate tip should be. It's another thing entirely if you ask for his advise. I wouldn't book with that type of outfitter. Some of these outfitters think 20% of the cost is appropriate. I think 10% in total makes far more sense for your average plains game hunt.. There's always the exception for outstanding work but again that's an exception.
     
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  16. Areaonereal

    Areaonereal AH Enthusiast

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    Some suggestions for a tip exceed what the PH or staff is paid by the outfitter.
     
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  17. Hank2211

    Hank2211 AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    This is not unusual. You can more or less figure out what a PH is paid in South Africa from the day rate after deductions . . . last time I talked about this to my PH (of many years) he was paid about $100/day, for which he had to supply his vehicle. And that was at higher end places with day rates in excess of $500. My guess is that the PH will make less when the day rate is lower. So when some suggest a tip of $100/d, they are effectively exceeding the PH's salary.
     
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  18. mark-hunter

    mark-hunter AH Enthusiast

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    On the other hand, if outfitter is also the owner of the farm, and is also the PH.... So entire profit goes to him, and it is completely different story. Then the honest need for tipping might be less.

    Come to think of it, this point might be a good part of initial research for the hunters with limited budget.

    Although the final indication could as well be total all inclusive cost, including tipping and all clearly defined in advance. In which case if part of higher tipping goes to higher trophy fees, or higher daily rates, and with minimum tipping, makes no difference. Bottom line is all inclusive costs. Full stop.
     

  19. Blue Moon

    Blue Moon AH Senior Member

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    Different countries have different perspectives on this. The tipping in Sweden (and in many other European countries) was removed because left-leaning politicians wanted to be able to tax 100% of your actual income. Inventing new taxes for the ever expanding government & public sectors has been a favourite discipline of many. :sleep: In other countries with other political philosophies tipping could perhaps be seen as a tax-free part of your income? The round-up is more of nice gesture and it also ,back in the days, in some instances used to be a practical way of not having to deal with small coins. Some also used it as a way of getting rid of small coins. :whistle:
     

  20. Von S.

    Von S. AH Fanatic

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    When we read outfitters brochures we look at what is included and what is not included and always under the what is not included is " tips and gratuities".

    Pretty damned arrogantly presumptuous to be pretty much well telling you that you are expected to tip if you ask me. Where is the part in there where they say how much money they will give you when their service is sub standard or the pH turns out to be a dh?

    Why is it that whenever I built someone a rifle I never put in the estimate work up sheet that tips are not included?

    Over the years people have been programmed to automatically give tips under the guise that those who you are giving it to are underpaid.

    Hell! Our own government even plays into it by allowing employers of restaurant and agricultural to pay less than minimum wage and no time and a half after 40.

    As of this day I have yet to ever see anyone shower people picking veggies with copious tips or any tips at all.

    I know of no law or papal edict that allows the owners of any hunting lodge to mistreat or otherwise underpay their hunt staff below what law requires as payment for their services and if the wage is not to their liking forces them to render their services regardless

    Have I ever not given a tip at a hunting resort to the hunt staff?,

    Yes! In Canada . I even had a shooting match for the price of the hunt with the dh guide along with a grand and took that money home as well as a bear. The lodge owner backed his play and only after I won did they attempt to weasel out of paying, but fortunately no one was having that.

    On another hunt the hunt staff became mysteriously larger when it came time to give out the tips. When asked," who the hell are those 4 guys " , and no believable answer given .....no tips were given either.

    There is a dinner that I go to to have breakfast and sometimes lunch the waitress who's section in always sit in has my coffee just the way I like it along with a big glass of ice water before me long before my ass even begins to sh ine the seat. If I can't figure out what I want she'll just ask me how hungry I am and shell take it from there. She is always moving and is wonderful to everyone. Her section is always full as is her tip wallet. And should she see you out and about she stops and bids you well.

    In my lifetime I have had to hire and discharge many people. The one thing that I have told them all is that they got the job because they impressed me that they could and would do the job to my satisfaction. If the day ever came that they would be discharged it would be because they had impressed upon me that they had lost the desire to be an impressive employee any longer. I never allowed any employee to be abused by anyone in management and whereas I could recommend raises I couldn't guarantee them. But as a "tip" I could authorize ot where possibly none was needed and the guy could work on a "g job" for a few hours and get paid well for it. But that "tip" only went to the ones who went over and above as I ran no beauty contests and didn't reward kiss asses or rats.

    Reward those who deserve it.












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