THE KING

Discussion in '.375 & Up' started by TOBY458, Sep 9, 2019.

  1. TOBY458

    TOBY458 AH Elite

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    I agree! I recently watched my friend have very mixed results with his 375, using 235gr. TSX bullets. He experienced some rather disturbing bullet failures on some relatively small animals. This was mostly due to the rather high velocities he was pushing these bullets, and the game in question was at very close range. I too believe if you're going to shoot a bullet in the 235 grain neighborhood, a 338 would be a better choice. Much more sectional density and better BC as well.
     
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  2. BeeMaa

    BeeMaa AH Elite

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  3. Hoss Delgado

    Hoss Delgado AH Fanatic

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    Ha Ha ! It makes perfect sense now , Bee Maa :) The reason my BRNO ZKK - 602 holds one more round is because somebody replaced the standard Magazine follower with an aftermarket magazine follower :) Pretty logical explanation , now that l think about it :)
    Beautiful rifle :) Synthetic stock ?
     

  4. TOBY458

    TOBY458 AH Elite

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  5. Shootist43

    Shootist43 AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Hoss, re. your vintage 375 H&H. Have you ever used a good copper remover on it? I am referring to Bore Tech's CU + 2 or KU 12. All others are junk and barely do anything at all. Another thought I had was to have a gunsmith check the crown. Problems in either or both of these two areas will severely degrade accuracy.
     
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  6. Forrest Halley

    Forrest Halley AH Senior Member

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    I don't understand why folks don't better research the caliber they are getting into prior to getting into it. There are a few calibers that seem to do a lot of different bullet weights well with .30-06 and .375 being two of them that spring to mind. The trade off is that there is an optimum weight in there where the cartridge functions best. By best I mean there is a respectable amount of energy and velocity retained over a given distance. For me that would be 500 yards. This is a nice round number and I can't really shoot any further with any practicality. It's also the maximum distance in the ammunition pamphlets I used to peruse as a kid. I really like the 165 grain .30-06 and 300 grain .375.
     

  7. Wyatt Smith

    Wyatt Smith AH Enthusiast

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    An interesting observation is how the 30-06 and the KING push bullets of similar sectional density at a similar speed 30-06 200 and 375 300 both are around 3 in sectional density and about 2500 give or take velocity. 180 and 270 are similar SD both about 2700fps. I know my numbers aren’t perfect it’s just an observation.
     
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  8. Hoss Delgado

    Hoss Delgado AH Fanatic

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    Copper remover , l haven't , no. Do you recommend it ? What l can't fathom though, is why it shoots tighter groups with Winchester Silvertips than other loads ? :(
     

  9. Shootist43

    Shootist43 AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    I use Bore Tech CU +2. Reason being it turns color in the presence of copper. You will need to use a jag that is nickel plated and a tight fitting fiber brush. Tipton makes the jags, and Bore Tech makes the brushes. All available from Midway. Don't be surprised at how many passes it will take to remove all of the copper from the barrel. I use this procedure on every used gun I purchase before taking it to the range as well as my own rifles after shooting them for a while. Re. this gun liking Silvertips, all guns shoot some loads better than others. This is not an unusual phenomenon. Are you shooting this rifle with iron sights or a scope? Is the barrel free floating? Is the rifle bedded?
     
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  10. Fastrig

    Fastrig AH Enthusiast

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    This is an interesting topic, i.e. the 375 H&H being "the King". From an academic perspective, I'd be curious to know how production numbers over the last century compare for the 375 H&H vs. the 9.3x62 Mauser. I've been reading a lot of articles on these two over the last several months and, from what I've read, the 9.3x62 was extremely popular for years because is was more affordable than the 375 H&H offerings, was very reliable, carried more rounds, had less recoil, and had very similar ballistic capabilities/results to the 375 H&H in the field. While the 9.3x62 didn't catch on in the States, probably because us Yanks had problems with the metric system, the rest of the world used the 9.3x62 rifles extensively. Trends in rifle calibers is interesting, especially for those that have endured and remained popular for more than a century.
     
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  11. Hoss Delgado

    Hoss Delgado AH Fanatic

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    I always shoot with iron sights :) My wife ( when shooting my Winchester ) uses a Weaver scope. I didn't know if it was bedded. I asked Granddad . He mentions that in 1968 after coming back from the Safari , he had it the stock bedded with fiberglass from a shop called " Golden Gear " in Colorado . :)
     

  12. Forrest Halley

    Forrest Halley AH Senior Member

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    Yes. It's quite interesting. I got started on the .375 after reading an article that pointed something similar out. The BC's that are being achieved by newer bullets are really commendable. I have just recently come to be aware of the importance of SD's since joining this forum. I don't really care about my .300 WM anymore. I want to explore the .30-06 and .375 more.
     
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  13. Hoss Delgado

    Hoss Delgado AH Fanatic

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    The 9.3 × 62 mm Mauser was initially more popular than the .375 HH Magnum. It was only after World War II , after all German arms and Ammunition were prohibited from being manufactured that the 9.3 × 62 lost it's popularity :)
    Itt was here that the .375 HH Magnum began to shine. Based on my collection of books , you won't find many pre world war II hunters using the .375 HH Magnum . Infact , Pete Pearson is the only documented one , but it was just one of the MANY guns in his collection. It was only after world war II and after the Introduction of the Winchester Model 70 in .375 HH Magnum , hunters began using it. Harry Selby states that during the post war era , client hunters were recommended to bring a .30-06 for plains game and would rent the Safari Outfitter's .470 NE Double rifle for dangerous game. Client hunters who brought their own guns were recommended to bring a 7mm of some sort for the light stuff , a .375 HH Magnum for medium sized game and a .470 Nitro Express Double for Big game. Eventually White Hunters realized that majority of the client hunters shot better with the .375 HH Magnum than with the big .470 NE Double rifles . So , they recommended clients to use the .375 HH Magnum on Big game ( like Elephant or Buffalo ) under favorable circumstances. If things went wrong... Well , that's where the White Hunter and his .470 NE Double rifle came in ;). Harry himself acquired his .375 HH Magnum Winchester Model 70 as a gift from a father and son duo who came hunting to Africa in 1950. But Harry Selby never used it on Elephant himself.
    The only two recorded Professional Hunters / White Hunters who exclusively used the .375 HH Magnum for Elephant and Buffalo were Harry Manners and Wally Johnson , in Mozambique from 1945 to 1953 ( Harry ) and from 1937 to 1972 ( Wally ). But having read both their auto biographies , it becomes clear that for men hunting DG alone without the assistance of a PH , the .375 HH Magnum can be marginal , at times. Let's look at Harry's case :
    He owned 4 Winchester Model 70 rifles in this caliber during his career . His strategy for shooting Elephant was to have his local native hunters ( Jonas or Chisulo ) carry a spare .375 HH Magnum and they would stalk an elephant or a cape Buff and both of them would fire together into the Animal's vitals simultaneously to kill it.
    Never alone. Harry Later told Tony Sanchez Arino that he actually preferred the .404 Jeffery and the .416 Rigby but that their Ammunition was not available in Mozambique. So the .375 HH Magnum was more of an economic choice.
    Wally Johnson used a Single .375 HH Magnum Winchester Model 70 during his entire career . But he needed 6-8 shots on average to take down an Elephant or a Cape Buffalo. And it did fail to stop a Cape Buffalo which charged Wally and gored him in the leg
    ( According to Jack Lott , Wally eventually swapped his .375 HH Magnum for a .458 Winchester Magnum Model 70 , but Wally doesn't mention this in his book ).
    Where the .375 HH Magnum REALLY gained it's popularity was during the 1950s to 1970s among Client hunters during an era when Kynoch discontinued all the British Cartridges. The .375 HH Magnum , being a non proprietary cartridge stayed during this era without much competition ( if any ).
    The 9.3mm Mauser was really popular in Mozambique among Buffalo hunters who shot buffalo to provide meat for the sugar cane plantation workers.
    I personally consider the .404 Jeffery the greatest ALL - Rounder and am Scouting for a nice BRNO ZKK -602 in the caliber , .404 . The REAL king ;)
    But l love the .375 HH Magnum too. Was my only rifle for 13 years :)
     
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  14. WAB

    WAB AH Elite

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    Interesting note Hoss, thanks!
     
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  15. Fastrig

    Fastrig AH Enthusiast

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    Thanks. I'm finding the history of the 9.3x62 interesting and a bit varied, depending on sources. I was under the impression that ammunition for the 9.3 was still readily available after the war because it wasn't a "military" caliber, and thus banned, and remained popular in Europe and Africa because there were so many hunting rifles in this chambering. Can see where new rifles weren't being manufactured for a while, though that didn't last all that long really, but maybe that period of time was enough for Winchester and other non-Axis country manufactures to step in and take over the market with the 375 H&H and other calibers. Very interesting and going to continue my reading on the subject. I'm a WWII history buff and this is one aspect of the aftermath of the war that I never looked at before...
     
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  16. Hoss Delgado

    Hoss Delgado AH Fanatic

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    Thank you , Wab :) I have a huge library :D
     

  17. Hoss Delgado

    Hoss Delgado AH Fanatic

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    This French gentleman who culls crop damaging Nilgai every year with me in Kuch Bihar uses a Beautiful Steyr 9.3 × 62 Mauser with a DETACHABLE MAGAZINE :) . Very accurate , beautiful gun . Have shot it many times. But in my opinion , you can tell that the 286 grain bullet of the 9.3 × 62 doesn't pack the wallop on Nilgai that the 300 grain bullet of my .375 HH Magnum does :)
     
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  18. BeeMaa

    BeeMaa AH Elite

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    Yes, synthetic stock from CZ (also available from Bell & Carlson).

    Barrel was cut to 22".
    Weight is WAYYYYYY to heavy for you my recoil loving friend...over 10.5# with a 1.5-5x20 scope and loaded with ammo.
    I did add some weight to the stock and it balances perfectly at the magazine now, albeit a tad heavy overall.
    I must say after shooting this for two years now, I believe I could easily drop it to 8-9# with no problems.
    Or I could just get a 416Rigby and have a second fiddle to the KING!!!
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
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  19. Wyatt Smith

    Wyatt Smith AH Enthusiast

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    Why was it taking 6 to 8 shots? Was it poor shot placement, poor bullet construction or something else? I find it hard to believe any living creature can make it very long with 7 375 solids in its brain. I will finish by adding I’ve never seen an elephant outside a zoo, I just find it hard to believe they required 6-8 well placed shot with quality solids.
     
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  20. Hoss Delgado

    Hoss Delgado AH Fanatic

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    Sorry for the delay , bro :) I was looking at my Ebook of Wally Johnson's Autobiography . Here are some screenshots. Also , of interest is that he compares the .375 HH Magnum to the 9.3 × 62 :) Screenshot_20190913-033421.png Screenshot_20190913-033511.png Screenshot_20190913-033519.png Screenshot_20190913-033524.png Screenshot_20190913-033531.png Screenshot_20190913-033535.png Screenshot_20190913-033649.png Screenshot_20190913-033652.png Screenshot_20190913-033659.png Screenshot_20190913-033708.png
     

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