Starting an agency that provides Hunting Consultation

Discussion in 'Introductions & Greets' started by Rohan, Nov 13, 2011.

  1. Rohan

    Rohan

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    I called PHASA and was told to send an e-mail so that the exact details can be considered and also that the correct people with this specific knowledge in the institution can give me an answer.

    As soon a as I get a response from them I will post it on this thread without any qualms about the content of the response, it is how it is.

    Marius,

    Your enquiry about whether or not I intend to market to international clients is one for which you already had the answer: A month or two ago we spoke via Private Messaging and I made a very clear and distinct point that I would infact be attempting to advertise hunts to international clients and NOT SA clients only. Perhaps you forgot.

    The response from PHASA will follow asap.

    Cheers,
     

  2. KMG Hunting Safaris

    KMG Hunting Safaris AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2013 AH Legend

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    Rohan,
    I asked whether you would be marketing to international clients because it just crossed my mind.
    By the way , the hostility and sarcasm in your posts towards me are not going unnoticed. I run a successful outfit, so have a lot of things on my mind, especially my clients.
    I offered you extensive advice over the PM's and why I believed you need to change your approach of your business plan. You obviously don't need advice, because you have already made up your mind.
    I still wish you the best of luck in your venture.
     

  3. JacoS

    JacoS AH Legend

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    Best of luck hope it works wonderfuly! C'mon guys be nice we are all in the same pool.. smile be happy and have a good hunting season! :p
     

  4. KMG Hunting Safaris

    KMG Hunting Safaris AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2013 AH Legend

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    Jaco,
    First clients for the year arrive here on Sat , 25 Feb. Temperature today was over 30 Deg C. Thinking of hunting in a wetsuit.
    Its going to be hot.
     

  5. monish

    monish AH Elite

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    Hi Rohan,

    Welcome to the forum ..All the very best for your new venture , looking forward to valuable inputs from your end ...

    Cheers

    Monish

     

  6. Rohan

    Rohan

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    Hi Monish and thanks. I will try my best to make it work, over the last few months I have already had to alter the course and make provisions where the margin is not viable etc. Will keep everyone up to date as promised in the beginning of this thread.

    Marius,

    Nobody is a victim here. I will post PHASAs statement when they respond. Though you are right that I was being sarcastic, I did not mean it as or intend for you to perceive it as a question of your success or quality of your service as an established Outfitter. This forum is not conducive to avoiding philosophical fallacies of reason and logic because we are not face to face and the only thing left is a play-on-words of previous threads, posts, and PMs. So I'm not going to get into reasoning with you, unless you would like to meet up one day over a hunt. Let's part our ways in peace.

    Cheers and all the best.


     

  7. JacoS

    JacoS AH Legend

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    OKAY......????? Marius got back on Saturday great to hear things are well and I truly hope you guys have an awesome season, if you hit Vaalwater side give me a buzz, you too Rohan, I mean it when I say all the best!

    My best always
     

  8. Rohan

    Rohan

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    Thanks Jaco, appreciated. Keep well.
     

  9. KMG Hunting Safaris

    KMG Hunting Safaris AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2013 AH Legend

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    Jaco,
    Vaalwater seems in a different timezone to the Eastern Cape. But will definately give you a shout if I pass through. Let me know when you down here. The members of this forum can't have all the fun. I think the Outfitters of this forum should get together and have our own little "indaba"

    'Till we meet, and keep well ( and I really mean it )
     

  10. JacoS

    JacoS AH Legend

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    Very true, have a little spot on canon rocks between Alex and Kenton, we could get together for some cracker fishing over December!!!! Yeah buddy!!

    My best always
     

  11. Rohan

    Rohan

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    Can anyone please help me to post an email from an external source directly onto this thread? I would like to post the original message I received from PHASA on my gmail account onto this thread...
     

  12. monish

    monish AH Elite

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    Hi Rohan,

    Shall try & meet you , when I visit Koedoeberg for my upcoming safari....

    All the best again ..

    Monish
     

  13. Rohan

    Rohan

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    That will be great Monish.

    Koedoeberg is in the Swartruggens area not too many miles away from me.

    Regards,
     

  14. Rohan

    Rohan

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    Reply from PHASA.

    Dear Rohan,

    The law does not directly refer to "Booking Agents" and their role. It does however give a clear answer to your question by implication. It states what only a Hunting Outfitter may do and what only a PH may do, and thus eliminates these activities from any other person who does not have a permit to operate as such.

    The answer to your question as stated and outlined by you is:

    Anybody may act as an Booking Agent for any Hunting outfitter.
    There is no restriction on where such Booking Agent must live.
    In terms of policy accepted by Nature Conservation, the Booking Agent and the Hunting Outfitter must enter into a written agreement which determines the conditions etc. A further condition that must be stipulated in such agreement, is that the Booking Agent must expose in their advertising whom the Hunting Outfitters are that they may be representing.

    Such information must also be available on demand when asked by a South African Law Enforcement Official.

    When a Booking Agent has their name as "xyz SAFARIS", this may create some confusion as to what they actually do. We would recommend to look at the option of including "booking agent, or consultants etc." to your booking agency name, and thus eliminating all possible confusion.

    Hope this will help you. I have referred your email to one of our Vice-presidents to answer.

    Kind Regards

    Tersia Du Plooy
    Personal Assistant to CEO
    Professional Hunters' Association of South Africa (PHASA)
    Responsible Hunting for Sustainable Life & Livelihoods





    My email to them.

    Hi there,

    I spoke to Tersia Du Plooy earlier this morning.

    I would like to know please: WHAT IS THE LEGISLATION BEHIND OPENING AN AGENCY IN SOUTH AFRICA, AS AN SA NATIONAL, THAT WOULD ADVERTISE HUNTING PACKAGES TO THE FOREIGN MARKET, AS SOMEONE WHO IS NOT AN OUTFITTER OR PH?

    This is my intention:

    -Hunt with the ouftit before-hand to observe the accomodations, trophy quality, general services etc and take footage and pics to show to international clients;
    -Go into a normal business contract with the Outfitter;
    -Receive remuneration for every client booked BY THE OUTFITTER as a result of the agency's advertising of the Outfitter's hunting packages;
    -Never book clients in with the outfit myself, or accept a booking on behalf of the Outfitter (I will only bring in interested parties and NOT book them in or organise the hunt etc);
    -Never accept money from the client, only accept the commission from the Outfitter, all money dealings related to the hunt are between the Outfitter and the client;
    -Never organise hunts, or guide the hunt, all hunting is between the Outfitter and the client;
    -Set up a meeting between Outfitter and prospective client (via email or in person);
    -Only advertise the packages of the outfit and consult with the client as a person with first-hand experience with the particular Outfitter, but not act as the professional guide;
    -All clients meet with the Outfitter beforehand ,as normal, to organise their itinery with the Outfit, I would work as a marketer only for the Outfitter and receive remuneration only for every client that he/she booked, but never will I consult with the client as though I am the Outfitter who has the legal forte to discern on professional hunting legislation in South Africa or act on things for which I am not legally obliged or accredited to do, I will only market and advertise the hunting packages for the Outfitter, then he/she will pay me for bringing interested clientele who have made a booking, period;

    I have been a hunter in SA for twenty years. I intend on doing a PH course in Limpopo and it is my intention in the future do acquire the minimum of three years of professional hunting to get an Outfitters licence. My agency will be conducting Game Drive Tours, City Cultutral Tours, and Safari Filiming...so the advertising of hunting packages would be one of the services of my company (though not to conduct any hunting tours, but only to reffer them to licensed hunting Outfitters who conduct hunting tours), essentially the company would allow international and local clientele to experience a bit of all South African Safaris and its culture. It is not my intention that the company be a booking agency, my company will conduct the Game Drives and City Tours etc, but not conduct the Hunting Tours or make any bookings with hunting outfits, only marketing and referral, whereby I would receive remuneration.

    Please advise me, and please direct me to where I may observe a written law etc. so that I may show to others, as I have communicated with numerous Outfitters who are registered with PHASA, yet not one can provide me with a written law or legislation that pertains to the operations of my business idea. Some of these Outfitters agree that what I intend on doing is ok and legal in SA as a non-Outfitter as long as I stick to what I intend (ie no bookings made by me, or receiving of money from the clients, or organising the hunt etc only referral with remuneration), and others say it is illegal to advertise hunts as a non-Outfitter even if I adhere to my proposed business model.

    Thank you for your patience, this issue has created some controversy and I wish only to get to the bottom of it so that I may work within the law.

    Sincerely,
    Rohan Peacock
    Owner, HDP Safaris
    Business Reg# 2012/01127/07
    (website not available yet)
    076 751 9184
     

  15. Rohan

    Rohan

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    I may work in South Africa as a 'booking agent' or 'hunting consultant' for any Outfitter in South Africa by advertising hunts to the international market, and that as an SA national who resides in South Africa permanently, and as someone who is not an Outfitter or Professional Hunter in South Africa.

    I acknowledge Marius's trend of thought as rellevant and accurate: That I should attend a Professional Hunting academy and get the credentials to guide international clients on hunts so that I may gain the necessary experience in order to understand this industry in full. Experience that will be based on practical knowledge and experience, and not on book knowledge or merely my own experiences as an SA hunter.

    I also got permission from PHASA to post their response on the AH Forum.

    Please contact Tersia to find out which Vice President responded via her email.

    Regards,
     

  16. Bobpuckett

    Bobpuckett AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Ambassador

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    Rohan Keep us posted as to how it works out. Bob
     

  17. Rohan

    Rohan

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    Will do Bob. Great to hear from you again.

    I have seven prospective clients (SA locals) who would like to book a Game Drive Tour in Kruger Park for the end of March. This would be more of a test-run but still a legitimate tour. I have to sub-contract a registered Field and Tour guide to conduct the tour under my companys name as I am not registered as either yet. By Oct/Nov I should have all the necessary credentials myself. Hopefully all goes well and I will post info and pics of the first tours.

    As for hunting and other, that will require more careful consideration so it will take longer, but I will also post info and pics when the time comes.

    And I will also let you know when I have a website.

    Keep well.

    QUOTE=Bobpuckett;47403]Rohan Keep us posted as to how it works out. Bob[/QUOTE]
     

  18. Rohan

    Rohan

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    Gents,

    This business model is not going to work.

    It boils down to expenditure vs return. After careful analysis with my business consultant, based on what I have researched, and what I have learned from Outfitters on AH and other over the last year, and what I have read about the market, I don't see a return unless I have the right type of finances to start-up and the rellevant experience to handle the industry. One needs money to make money, one also needs a lot more money to gather momentum, strategic marketing is the key in any enterprise and this is most effective but also costly, and I maintain that I will not try and start another internet agency where I try to get Outfitters who I don't know or who I have not hunted with personally, period. I just don't see it as authentic.

    The men who make it work properly are the Roo Ellis's and others alike who go out of their way to provide authenticity and sound references by investigating and hunting with the Outfitter before-hand. The other thing these agencies had when they started up that I don't have right now is experience: industry-related or other business. I consulted with Roo Ellis since June last year and he ended our conversations beginning this year as he said we would be competitors and any more information he gave me would not be helping him, this is understandable and quite right and I respect him for being straightforward. He also helped me a lot in the beginning but all the while reminding me that if I start to get going that we would be competitors. Roo Ellis took the time and effort to guide me and was one of two agents out of more than ten that responded to my enquiries about the industry. He trully gave me extensive advice without giving up his own business scheme and took a lot of his own time in answering my lengthly emails in detail and in all ernesty and I appreciate that a lot as he was straight about the pitfalls as well as the benefits ie I never got the feeling he was trying to discourage me, only that he gave me facts. Another agent that repsonded to me and helped me a great deal was Mike Shukis, Russian hunting consultant. Also the same as Roo Ellis, Mike or Mikhail Shukis was extremely helpful and encouraged me without exposing his own business scheme, answered all my naive emails with dedication and direction about the reality of hunting agents and the scene in general. This I appreciate very much and the risk that these two men took in obliging me has not gone unnoticed.

    Most importantly I need the experience to handle the pot-holes of the industry. The issue with finance is that any loan company will not grant a loan to an individual like me no matter how sound my business model, because it requires a lot of start-up investment in order to succeed, because of marketing costs and other. And then I am also alone as the sole director, this counts against me as I have no previous business experience, enough collateral, or a management team with the rellevant experience. So, though I can present a sound and commercially viable business model, it is only when the investor believes that the director can execute such that the application will be considered seriously, and as it stands, I have not covered the bases in terms of management teams with experience, or credentials, or collateral, because I cannot do that right now.

    I also started this idea with an investor who assured me that I need not apply for loans or go elsewhere for investment. I initially took his dedication to back me with a pinch of salt, but after time I gave in to the allure of hunting big five, double rifles, meeting international hunters, and conversing with Outfitters (as I naturally find any conversation to do with hunting quite interesting). I almost ordered a Merkel in double s/s .416Rigby in the gunshop with him because of how he reassured me, a rifle I never saw as useful for my hunting but for then saw as a 'neccesity'. My lack of experience with bulls****ers manifetsed in true spirit when I believed that he would actually buy the darn thing for me, let alone back me up on an unresearched project of which the overall viability was yet to be determined. Luckily I declined the offer to buy me the double for then as the gunshop said that once the order is through it is paid for, thus I would be obliged to pay the money when the rifle arrived as they had not ordered Merkels yet so this would be a special order, and if I did not pay would face legal consequences. He backed out unexpectedly after I had arranged certain meetings and said certain things to certain people, and done all the work to get a blue print of the idea. Luckily i'm not in any problems with the gunshop about the Merkel as he has since vanished after five years of knowing him: he promised to pay for the rifle but that I just go and order it myself, and had he done so I would be in quite a pickle right now. Also I am sure there would have been a deposit fee but did not find that out, but I think the credit act right now in SA is that there is no more credit system (probably for certain amounts at certain establishments etc), or at least I found this out when I asked a gunsmith about how I can pay for a Herstal .375 yesterday.

    Trust is also a major issue. Though I know I am an upstanding man with direction and passion and honesty and some experience(though not enough experience in the international scene), the Outfitter and prospective Client don't have to see it that way as I have no credentials or track record to prove it. Another problem I am realising is that I do not live abroad, the purpose of representation is also to reach a clientele base that is physically out of reach, thus an agent who lives where the market does is the purpose of an Outfitter employing an agent in another country (or one of the main reasons), or why he/she employs as an agent at all. So, though it is not imperative that I live abroad, based on finance and lack of credentials, I cannot risk the expenditure in the hope of a return because hardly anyone will invest in an agent without the credentials or necessary experience. It is how it is and I must face it.

    The main word for me is "RISK". It is too risky too start with such little backing in terms of finance, If I had a million dollars I could do it and tweek it when I needed to, but if I were to take the risk now, I could fall into a lot of problems.

    Solution is to take the advice given to me by more than one Outfitter, and start as a PH and work forward from there. This will give me experience and credentials. The company is still registered and what to do with the name in the mean time I do not know. I have spoken to David Sutherland of Sutherland Hunting Academy in Limpopo and will be making a booking in this year. They are also starting the first Dangerous Game PH course in August that qualifies one to guide on DG hunts after the course is completed successfully, this can only be attended by PH's who are registered already and don't ask me about the programme or how the notion works, but I think I will take it up after I have done my PH course and If I can afford it. Completing this course does not substitute for practical years of experience and im aware of that.

    I have been transparent and honest with all of you from the beginning and kept you up to date as promised without any bias as to the actual status of this idea. There were some instances where I only wanted to hear what I wanted to hear and that I will admit to. But when I posted updates about the legality of the 'hunting agent in SA', I got that information from a PHASA founding member who runs an Outfit in Mpumalanga, the reason I could not use him as a reference in response to a question on this thread about where I was getting my information about this legislation is because he (the informing Outfitter) asked me to rather phone him after I emailed him about what the legislation is so that we can talk instead of email as he dislikes 'paperwork'...based on this I anticipated his response were I to ask him if I could use him as a reference on an internet forum. He is a bit old and doesn't seem keen on 'internet stuff', so I decided to contact PHASA instead, which is what I should have done in the first place, at which they gave me exactly the same response about the legislation behind agents in SA as he did. So, just to make it clear that at no point did I just suck things out of my thumb in the hope that it holds, I did the research then posted my findings.

    The reality is that it will not work unless I have the money and experience to do it. I have tried. One must always know how far to push the bill and also when and where to quit so that you can move forward productively without wasting time in denial. Life is too short for that...

    Thank you to all for your input.

    Special thanks to:

    Rupert Ellis
    The Hunting Agency | Home

    Michael Shukis
    Independant Hunting & Shooting Consultant
    +7 449 159 2380 (office)
    +7 917 563 6654 (cell)

    Frederik Cocquyt
    www.infinitosafaris.com

    Willem Faul
    Koedoeberg | Home

    Willie Meyer
    www.huntingafrica.co.za

    And Jerome of AH for calling me to discuss generally around this idea.
     

  19. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN AH ENABLER SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR LIFETIME TITANIUM BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    Rohan, enjoy your PH course.
    Sit underneath the Leopard mount in the classroom. The best seat in the house!
    At least I think so.

    1. Start studying the Limpopo Laws now.
    2. Get the SCI and Rowland minimum scores and memorize both of them for everything.
    The rest will follow.

    Good luck.
     

  20. saeng101

    saeng101 AH Veteran

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    Rohan

    You have made a good choice. A business will only work if you bring value, and I couldn't see where it was in this. It is a hard business to make work. For every successful PH I can find you 10 starving ones.

    Being from RCB I can tell you that cram all of the laws, KZN has some strange ones.
     

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