Short action magnums

[CoElkHunter]

@Hunter -Habib
True but how many people wear ear muffs while hunting. That would be akin to wearing hobnail boots for a hundred yard sprint. Can be done but not really practical.

Bob,
These (or similar) are what I’ve been wearing while hunting for a number of years now. They really don’t affect normal hearing while hunting and the strap keeps them around your neck so you don’t have to have them in your ears all the time.
CEH

 

[CoElkHunter]

@Hunter-Habib
A 338WM with a 20" barrel would be absolutely ferocious and muzzle blat would deafen you for a week
Bob

And so would most of the belted magnums designed for at least 24” barrels. I don’t get what the “allure” is with the shorter barrels in the higher velocity magnum cartridges? I’ve carried my 26” barreled Browning .338 for years when hunting with no issues even in thick forests.

 

[BeeMaa]

I held off posting on this thread...

The advantages of a short action are completely in favor of the manufacturer, not the shooter. Long action length is a maximum of 3.34" and short action minimum length is 2.3". Thats just over 1" of bolt throw and it make a HUGE difference.

Cartridge shape (as it applies to smooth feeding), shoulder angle, powder capacity, bullet weight and overall performance all lie in favor of the long action. The only advantages to the SA are a more rigid action and shorter bolt throw...along with the less expensive manufacturing costs.

I'd be much more likely to choose a medium bore based on a long action over a short action for the sake of bullet weight and velocity flexibility. 35W, 338-06, 338WM and 375RUGER are proper choices. Better yet, move up to a magnum action mid-bore and experience a 375H&H, 375WBY, 375RUM or 378WBY. Talk about smooth feeding...it's Greased Lightning!

I only say this because I owned a 300WSM...a rifle I consider one of my biggest missteps in the firearms realm. I know people on AH have had success with the WSM's (thank you at @WAB) but I consider them the exception, not the rule. Do your research and if you choose a WSM, make sure you have reloading dies and enough brass for your future. Best of luck.

IMO - If I were buying a mid-bore today, it would be a 375H&H, 375RUGER, 35W or 338WM...in that order based on ammo availability and bullet selection.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

@Hunter-Habib
Even one at the right level can permanently damage your hearing.
A 18 inch barrel on a 303 scrub gun hunting pigs gets your ears to ringing after a few shots. Back in the late 70s to early 80s it was nothing to go thru 300 rounds of 303 in a weekend hunting pigs out west when they were a problem. Used to go home with a headache or was that from the after hunt Bundy rums. Maybe both. As I said earmuffs back then we're very uncommon and ina lot of circles unheard of.
Bob

Well, Bobby. I served in the Indo-Pak war in '71 and was issued a Lee Enfield in .303 British. Needless to say, it got fired a lot. My hearing is still fine. Initially, I used to get temporarily disoriented but eventually I got desensitized to it.

Firing 300 rounds during a pig cull and firing a few rounds during a typical deer or elk or bear hunt (as done in America) are like comparing Chalk and Cheese. The hunter would be firing off a lot of rounds during practice (where he has ear muffs) and relatively few during the actual hunt itself. I honestly doubt if 50 rounds would be expended during the actual hunt itself, let alone 300.

 

[ldmay375]

I have medium bore rifles with 26" down to slightly under 20". Each to their own choices as to barrel length happiness.

So far when using the shorter barrel rifles, I have never said "damn I wish this rifle had a longer barrel". Though I have certainly cut some of the longer ones.

I have never considered adding longer barrels to the 20" ones. 8mm through 458, I can get along with my default compromise 22" barrels.

If my potential distances are where I feel the need for the extra 100/150 fps In the medium bores, I will grab a longer barrel and probably a faster type cartridge. My preferred minimum impact velocity for medium bores is 2000 fps. A few bullets / projectiles , I could probably go to 1900 fps.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Oh I agree. If OP is looking for a "woods gun" big bullets at slowish/medium velocity dump game in its tracks. 358 win fits that

@curtism1234
The 35s seem to bee in that sweet spot that just seems to work and drops game. Hit with a 35 the seem to know about it with the way they react to the impact.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Well, Bobby. I served in the Indo-Pak war in '71 and was issued a Lee Enfield in .303 British. Needless to say, it got fired a lot. My hearing is still fine. Initially, I used to get temporarily disoriented but eventually I got desensitized to it.

Firing 300 rounds during a pig cull and firing a few rounds during a typical deer or elk or bear hunt (as done in America) are like comparing Chalk and Cheese. The hunter would be firing off a lot of rounds during practice (where he has ear muffs) and relatively few during the actual hunt itself. I honestly doubt if 50 rounds would be expended during the actual hunt itself, let alone 300.

@Hunter-Habib
My dad served in Korea from 50 until 53 using the 303 in SMLE, Vickers HMG and BREN LMG and various other weapons. His hearing was badly affected in later life, after 55.
Bob

 

[Hunter-Habib]

@Hunter-Habib
My dad served in Korea from 50 until 53 using the 303 in SMLE, Vickers HMG and BREN LMG and various other weapons. His hearing was badly affected in later life, after 55.
Bob

Well, I guess I'm one of the lucky ones. Because I turn 72 next August.

Machine gunners typically do go deaf in later life. As do artillery men.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Well, Bobby. I served in the Indo-Pak war in '71 and was issued a Lee Enfield in .303 British. Needless to say, it got fired a lot. My hearing is still fine. Initially, I used to get temporarily disoriented but eventually I got desensitized to it.

Firing 300 rounds during a pig cull and firing a few rounds during a typical deer or elk or bear hunt (as done in America) are like comparing Chalk and Cheese. The hunter would be firing off a lot of rounds during practice (where he has ear muffs) and relatively few during the actual hunt itself. I honestly doubt if 50 rounds would be expended during the actual hunt itself, let alone 300.

@Hunter-Habib
I served in the Australian army and we never got issued earmuffs even for range practice.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

@Hunter-Habib
I served in the Australian army and we never got issued earmuffs even for range practice.

They're not meant to, Bobby. You're supposed to become desensitized to the noise, so that you can easily work under fire in the battlefield without losing your senses.

 

[OldnLazy]

On a short action the WSM will be limited. It works, don’t get me wrong, but if you want to use long high BC bullets, you’re going to have to shove them pretty deep. I’d stick with a SAUM or, if you’re feeling like a true short action magnum, go with the Sherman short line.

I currently have a 270SS, a 25SST, and am building a 338SS. Yes it’s a little more $ up front, but usually has brass in stock, which isn’t all that common nowadays! It also “fits” better in a SA with the longer bullets.

 

[MISportsman]

I held off posting on this thread...

The advantages of a short action are completely in favor of the manufacturer, not the shooter. Long action length is a maximum of 3.34" and short action minimum length is 2.3". Thats just over 1" of bolt throw and it make a HUGE difference.

Cartridge shape (as it applies to smooth feeding), shoulder angle, powder capacity, bullet weight and overall performance all lie in favor of the long action. The only advantages to the SA are a more rigid action and shorter bolt throw...along with the less expensive manufacturing costs.

I'd be much more likely to choose a medium bore based on a long action over a short action for the sake of bullet weight and velocity flexibility. 35W, 338-06, 338WM and 375RUGER are proper choices. Better yet, move up to a magnum action mid-bore and experience a 375H&H, 375WBY, 375RUM or 378WBY. Talk about smooth feeding...it's Greased Lightning!

I only say this because I owned a 300WSM...a rifle I consider one of my biggest missteps in the firearms realm. I know people on AH have had success with the WSM's (thank you at @WAB) but I consider them the exception, not the rule. Do your research and if you choose a WSM, make sure you have reloading dies and enough brass for your future. Best of luck.

IMO - If I were buying a mid-bore today, it would be a 375H&H, 375RUGER, 35W or 338WM...in that order based on ammo availability and bullet selection.

I do and always have favored long actions. The only reason I'm building this on a short action is because of the killer deal I got on the action at the gun show. I did read that short action magnums function well with a 20" barrel so I got the idea of a magnum carbine woods gun. After talking to you gentlemen it is sounding more and more like for this build, the .358 win would be the way to go. Either that or just give it to my 17 year old to build something with and but one of the Rugers in .375 or even see if the custom no shop at savage can build me a 9.3x62

 

[WAB]

I held off posting on this thread...

The advantages of a short action are completely in favor of the manufacturer, not the shooter. Long action length is a maximum of 3.34" and short action minimum length is 2.3". Thats just over 1" of bolt throw and it make a HUGE difference.

Cartridge shape (as it applies to smooth feeding), shoulder angle, powder capacity, bullet weight and overall performance all lie in favor of the long action. The only advantages to the SA are a more rigid action and shorter bolt throw...along with the less expensive manufacturing costs.

I'd be much more likely to choose a medium bore based on a long action over a short action for the sake of bullet weight and velocity flexibility. 35W, 338-06, 338WM and 375RUGER are proper choices. Better yet, move up to a magnum action mid-bore and experience a 375H&H, 375WBY, 375RUM or 378WBY. Talk about smooth feeding...it's Greased Lightning!

I only say this because I owned a 300WSM...a rifle I consider one of my biggest missteps in the firearms realm. I know people on AH have had success with the WSM's (thank you at @WAB) but I consider them the exception, not the rule. Do your research and if you choose a WSM, make sure you have reloading dies and enough brass for your future. Best of luck.

IMO - If I were buying a mid-bore today, it would be a 375H&H, 375RUGER, 35W or 338WM...in that order based on ammo availability and bullet selection.

I don’t disagree at all. If doing it again I would almost certainly build a rifle in 8x68S as opposed to .325 WSM. This would have given me identical ballistics and 5 in the mag as opposed to 3. However, my .325 WSM feeds flawlessly and shoots incredibly well. I have just received a custom build that will almost certainly replace it for my long range desert hunting, so I suspect that the .325 will see little use going forward.

 

[ldmay375]

I don’t disagree at all. If doing it again I would almost certainly build a rifle in 8x68S as opposed to .325 WSM. This would have given me identical ballistics and 5 in the mag as opposed to 3. However, my .325 WSM feeds flawlessly and shoots incredibly well. I have just received a custom build that will almost certainly replace it for my long range desert hunting, so I suspect that the .325 will see little use going forward.

Certainly no harm in more cartridge capacity. But, the 3 cartridge magazine capacity of the WSMs and like has never been an issue to me.
My 300 Winchesters, 300 Wby, 338 Winchesters, 375 H&Hs, 375 Rugers, 416 Remingtons, 458 Winchesters, and one of the 458 Lotts, only hold 3 in the magazines.

I fully agree on the feeding comments. I have WSMs in 2ea Kimbers, 4ea Winchesters New Haven classics, and 1ea Ruger.
The only one that had an issue was one of the very earliest production run of Kimbers. It was obvious the feed ramp angle was cut wrong when compared to its mate. And that has been fixed. I have had and have seen rifles with the long and lean cartridges have feeding issues.
Some people get all giddy over a rifle that feeds empty brass. Well, the one M70 WSM that I tried this in will do it.

 

[MISportsman]

If I did put the build on hold and bought a factory rifle I'm hearing good things about the .375 Ruger on here and I have always liked the 9.3x62. which would better?

 

[WAB]

Certainly no harm in more cartridge capacity. But, the 3 cartridge magazine capacity of the WSMs and like has never been an issue to me.
My 300 Winchesters, 300 Wby, 338 Winchesters, 375 H&Hs, 375 Rugers, 416 Remingtons, 458 Winchesters, and one of the 458 Lotts, only hold 3 in the magazines.

I fully agree on the feeding comments. I have WSMs in 2ea Kimbers, 4ea Winchesters New Haven classics, and 1ea Ruger.
The only one that had an issue was one of the very earliest production run of Kimbers. It was obvious the feed ramp angle was cut wrong when compared to its mate. And that has been fixed. I have had and have seen rifles with the long and lean cartridges have feeding issues.
Some people get all giddy over a rifle that feeds empty brass. Well, the one M70 WSM that I tried this in will do it.

I prefer 5 down as I don’t bother with extra cartridges when I grab a rifle and head out the back door. 3 seems a little light and I will grab extra cartridges if that is the case.

 

[ldmay375]

If I did put the build on hold and bought a factory rifle I'm hearing good things about the .375 Ruger on here and I have always liked the 9.3x62. which would better?

I am very fond of the 375 & 416 Rugers.

From the Barnes loading data, I am presently getting a 5 shot average of 2723 fps with the 270 grain LRX bullet in the 20" 375 Ruger. To me it is definitely a 300 yard rifle as to velocity and trajectory.

 

[IvW]

I was a LMG and then PKM machine gun as primary weapon and my high frequency hearing is fu....
I find it very difficult to have cinversation when there is music or a few people speaking around me.
I also speak way too load as I cannot hear myself if I speak normal.....
Phone needs to be on speaker most the time....

Protect your hearing while you can.....and yes I hate muzzle brakes....

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

They're not meant to, Bobby. You're supposed to become desensitized to the noise, so that you can easily work under fire in the battlefield without losing your senses.

@Hunter-Habib
That's what they said but they have ended up with a lot of claims for hearing losses .

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

If I did put the build on hold and bought a factory rifle I'm hearing good things about the .375 Ruger on here and I have always liked the 9.3x62. which would better?

@MISoprtsman
The 9.3x62 or the 35 Whelen with a 22 inch barrel will put a lot of hurt on game.
A properly loaded Whelen will equal the 9.3 and 338WM.
There's no flies on a 250gr 35 cal bullet at 2,700fps or a 310gn at 2,455fps. I'd you really need to reach way out yonder to wallop game then the 225gn at 2,900fps will do the job.
A very versatile round that is capable of delivering over 4,000fpe of muzzle energy and not beat you up.
A Savage 110 with a Shaw replacement barrel and you have an economical big hitter.
Bob