SA PH's and Outitters- How does the game breeding affect your hunting business?

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

Breeding markets, you know the dead end street where everyone invests billions of rand under the flag of conservation, and yet such intensive breeding farms focus on one to 4 species in many cases non indigenous to the area to the detriment of indigenous Fauna and Flora.
Every, jackal, brown hyena, leopard and caracal that they possibly can lay they're paws on gets poisoned and or displaced, not to even mention the other native species.

We are breeding pre Madonna game and in an artificial atmosphere...

Just my option.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Breeding markets, you know the dead end street where everyone invests billions of rand under the flag of conservation, and yet such intensive breeding farms focus on one to 4 species in many cases non indigenous to the area to the detriment of indigenous Fauna and Flora.
Every, jackal, brown hyena, leopard and caracal that they possibly can lay they're paws on gets poisoned and or displaced, not to even mention the other native species.

We are breeding pre Madonna game and in an artificial atmosphere...

Just my option.

Yes, I agree 100% with you, but have to say that this has not affected me personally when it comes to hunting......yet. Which, unless I'm misunderstanding him, is what MJ is implying. These breeding farms has nothing to do with hunting or conservation.

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

They don't have anything to do with it right now Marius but the complications that it will bring about will be felt in the long run, if it does not slow down.

Also by association the hunting fraternity is implicated and tarred with the same brush by those who do not know any better.

Then I also have to add that the high volume 2000 animal a year operations are part of it.

My best always

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Yip, can't disagree with that!

 

[billc]

I think there is a big difference in guys breeding to sell to other breeders then guys breeding animals to be hunted over time.

IF the guy is breeding springbucks on his land and they are wild and free on his place and he hunts a few each year I don't see anything wrong with that. IF he sells a few off each year instead of culling them off I see nothing wrong with that either.

I think were the problem starts is when all of a sudden they see that different one of say color blue. In nature that animal would more then likely have a short life span. But the owner sees $$$ and catches it and now trys to make more blue ones. That is were must have a problem with the breeding part. I myself have a problem with that but cant not say I stay true to my dislike of it as I had my son hunt 3 colored springbucks that started out just like the blue one I made up.

Why I did not have a problem hunting a black,white,copper springbuck. Well when I started my search on hunting africa they were already there in great herds.

Were my problem starts is when the black sold for 500 one year and because of the breeding market they sell for 1000 the next. Now all of a sudden you have breeders screwing the outfitters and hunters because they can make some more money quickly. They don't feel bad when they tell the outfitter sorry I now need this much to hunt a black one. They will take the extra money and run with it while they can. But when the market crashes they will plan on the outfitter and hunters to come back like nothing happened at all and say it was just business for them.

 

[TokkieM]

Folks, you are not seeing the bigger picture! Common Springbuck rams are being shot out of the heards to make place for coloured rams. Common Springbuck females are selling way higher to breed with coloured rams and you the hunter is paying for this!
I am currently in the EC and the breeding industry is making hunting extremely expensive and areas once set aside for Sable and other species have made place for Springbuck in every colour you can think of! Any EC outfitter that says he cannot see the impact the breeding of colour variations is having on the hunting industry needs to look closer. Copper and Black Springbuck are no longer on my price list.
I have been shooting ( not hunting) white and common rams for 2 weeks, because they are the wrong colour!!
If any one is interested I have also shot a few brown faced Springbuck which I am sure will sell for R60 000-00 in a month or two.
The worst part is that all these expensive coloured species are now in areas we hunt, so it's like " Ooh look a Kings Wildebeest! Don't shoot that it's very expensive" Its like shopping in a store were you can only buy one product!!!
Good luck to the breeders, I am patiently waiting for the day we shoot out these coloured imposters to replace them with the real macoy, just hope we have something left in the gene pool.

Make no mistake we as hunters,outfitters and PH's are indirectly paying and suffering because of the breeders. Soon you will not hear of Rhino poaching ( I don't take it lightly) but of one or other coloured animal being darted and airlifted from the owner by thieves.

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

"Any EC outfitter that says he cannot see the impact the breeding of colour variations is having on the hunting industry needs to look closer"

Guess this is a poke at me. I don't deny that these people are around, but I choose to not deal with these people, and won't do so in the future either. By doing this, I can keep the price down and try and relay these savings to my hunters. I hunt on our own land and with like minded people, all in our like-minded community who all pull in the same direction.
You see, just the other day I got one of my hunters a Yellow Blesbuck for $350 trophy fee. That is what I think of this BS.

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

I think there is a big difference in guys breeding to sell to other breeders then guys breeding animals to be hunted over time.

IF the guy is breeding springbucks on his land and they are wild and free on his place and he hunts a few each year I don't see anything wrong with that. IF he sells a few off each year instead of culling them off I see nothing wrong with that either.

I think were the problem starts is when all of a sudden they see that different one of say color blue. In nature that animal would more then likely have a short life span. But the owner sees $$$ and catches it and now trys to make more blue ones. That is were must have a problem with the breeding part. I myself have a problem with that but cant not say I stay true to my dislike of it as I had my son hunt 3 colored springbucks that started out just like the blue one I made up.

Why I did not have a problem hunting a black,white,copper springbuck. Well when I started my search on hunting africa they were already there in great herds.

Were my problem starts is when the black sold for 500 one year and because of the breeding market they sell for 1000 the next. Now all of a sudden you have breeders screwing the outfitters and hunters because they can make some more money quickly. They don't feel bad when they tell the outfitter sorry I now need this much to hunt a black one. They will take the extra money and run with it while they can. But when the market crashes they will plan on the outfitter and hunters to come back like nothing happened at all and say it was just business for them.

And I bet that there will be outfitters willing to shoot them in the 10 acre breeding pens... Unfortunately probably the truth...

Not a good impression on our industry,,,, they'll be giving those Zimbo's even more ammunition...

My best always

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Not a good impression on our industry,,,, they'll be giving those Zimbo's even more ammunition...
My best always

Whahahahaha.....Jaco, you're a machine on form at the moment.

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

Marius are you watching World Cup cricket? We struggled with the bowling hopefully we can chase 308!
Was a short night only got home at 3:30 am and the cricket started at 5:30 ....

 

[KMG Hunting Safaris]

Thought we pulled a rabbit out of a hat on this one. We could have easily been chasing 340-350.
I noticed a lot of these "color variants" in the crowd.
We are still in the game.

 

[Bos en Dal SAFARIS]

Thought we pulled a rabbit out of a hat on this one. We could have easily been chasing 340-350.
I noticed a lot of these "color variants" in the crowd.
We are still in the game.

Maybe the colour animals will need the same rabbit!!
Because the proteas surely couldn't find the rabbits ears to pull it by!!!

We just cant perform under pressure!!

It is funny, i took a picture of a blesbok ewe that has more white on her face than normally on our property, posting the picture on facebook because it looked funny to me!
Not an hour later my inbox was flooded by people offering me up to $6000 for this new masked blesbok breed!!! It is starting to become ridiculous with all the sub-species and colour variants they make yo these days!!!

 

[spike.t]

hey gerrit i hope you took their money and laughed all the way to the bank

 

[spike.t]

Marius are you watching World Cup cricket? We struggled with the bowling hopefully we can chase 308!
Was a short night only got home at 3:30 am and the cricket started at 5:30 ....

is this the one you are talking about jaco???

India vs South Africa Highlights, World Cup 2015: India Crush South Africa by 130 Runs for Historic Win

 

[billc]

Jaco I am sure some guys may let them be hunted on 10 arces and there maybe even guys who would do that. But there are also guys breeding springbuck on large areas to offer to hunters not just to sell off. I was talking of the areas like we hunted were even though the colored were not all mixed together on one place they all had 4000 to 10,000 acres to run around and breed. Areas had large herds and a mix of males of all ages with even more females.

Marius that is a great deal on a yellow blesbuck for your client. He should be very happy for sure and good on yoy for finding that deal for him.

I think the way the breeding market is going right now it is bad in may ways. Just remember they also have helped a bunch to make Sa what it is now. Just like there can bad outfitter there can be bad and greedy game breeders. I have yet to see a system that works perfect.

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

Billc I am reasonably convinced that the thread was not meant or aimed at naturally reproductive herds in large areas, in fact I know it was not.

The game breeding we are discussing here has had very little positive impact on anything, from game numbers to biodiversity.


Thanks Spike...... Really thanks allot!

My best always

 

[billc]

I get that but like always there is just not one side to this. I was just letting guys who may read this good has been done bt breeders also. Not everyone who reads this is an outfitter

 

[KWALATA SAFARIS]

No I know but the other side is game ranching not "breeding" as such. In my interpretation of the word breeding refers to an intensive process, with selective males in a controlled enviromrnt

Good to provide the other side and I understand that non Africans might interpret it in the wrong way.

My best

 

[spike.t]

Thanks Spike...... Really thanks allot!

My best always

my pleasure jaco....anytime

 

[BRICKBURN]

...............
Not an hour later my inbox was flooded by people offering me up to $6000 for this new masked blesbok breed!!!............

It's been ridiculous for a long time. Great opportunity to sell that very rare new variant Masked Blesbok. At least $600,000 and you'll part with it. It is the breeding foundation you know.