Poor Man's Double Rifle

[HWL]

...thanks for the story and all the additional information you gave.

I agree with you, that barrel regulation will not be the problem at the short distances intended.

I am also with you, that a leopard stopper is not a buffalo stopper.

But I can imagine, that it will stop every pig/hog/boar in northern hemisphere.


HWL

 

[perttime]

...
He decided to try and take the shot with the Brenneke, not wanting to return to camp for his other rifle. A short stalk got him very close to the buffalo and he was right next to the one hut. Waiting for the buffalo to be perfectly broadside, as the buffalo stepped forward with the leg on his side he took the shot. He was most surprised at the reaction from the buffalo! It gave a few steps backward and fell over!! He waited quite a while before checking on the buffalo.

...

I wonder where exactly the slug hit.

My thought is that a shotgun slug might lack penetration in a big and tough animal.

 

[IvW]

As mentioned shot was placed behind the front leg as it stepped forward with that leg.

 

[archer36]

Good move cutting off the end of the barrel and eliminating the constrictions. Rifled slugs will be more accurate out of a "cylinder bore". Brenneke slugs were the standard many years ago. You have many more options now.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Shotguns and slugs are most the most underrated, most understood firearms!!

Experience.....after running the data and range testing....

If "we" consider, regardless of gauge, to be addressed as a caliber, the dual purpose "shotgun", is really a dual purpose rifle.

A rifled barrel is more accurate than a smooth bore barrel, that is a fact "we" know very well.

So what is the difference between shooting any 1800 + fps cartridge to an equivalent 1800+ shotgun slug(?). NOTHING, "we" use to think, because "we" didn't know any better, shotguns are close range weapons, when in actuality they are very effective out to 500+ yards.

410 "gauge" / caliber= 41 caliber
20 gauge=60 caliber +/-: .600, .610, .615, .620
12 gauge= 75 caliber +/-: .730, .735. .740. .745, .750
10 gauge= 80 caliber +/-: .775, .779. .800,

Shotguns (aka smooth bores) are just a different label for rifles.

Do you call a rifle, or pistol/ revolver a shotgun when using "bird shot"/ "snake shot"/"rat shot" etc.?

 

[Major Khan]

I have enjoyed this article very much , IvW. Is your BRNO side lock shot gun equipped with ejectors or extractors ?
Do you use factory loaded Brenekke slugs for leopards , or do you always use your own hand loaded brass cartridges ?
I have used my own "poor man's double barreled rifle " ( my old Belgian side by side shot gun ) to kill ( among other things ) 21 hunting leopards ( which we refer to , as " forest panther " ) , 15 gaur bison and 12 royal Bengal tiger ( 11 of which were wounded by my clients and had charged the shikar party . )

I would hand load my own cartridges , by removing the spherical ball bullet from a 2.5 inch Eley Grand Prix spherical ball cartridge ( which was a low brass case ) and then loading the spherical ball into an Eley Alphamax magnum 3 inch " High Brass " cartridge case ( after removing the shot from the 3 inch cartridge case ) . The larger powder charge of the 3 inch " High Brass " cartridge case would help me achieve the appropriate velocity for my spherical ball bullets ( which , despite being designed to be used in a 12 Bore shot gun , were actually of 16 Bore calibre , in order to allow the ball to easily pass through the barrel of even the most tightly choked 12 Bores ) .

By the way , while it is not the same as a Brenekke rifled slug being used on African cape buffalo , I have used my spherical ball cartridges to lay low 15 gaur bison in India , back in the old days . While hardly suitable for hunting gaur bison , those 1 ounce spherical balls of hardened lead were quite capable of dispatching gaur bison ( weighing over 2000 pounds ) with a double lung shot .
Of course , these were picked shots and I certainly do not encourage this risky practice !

 

[Albert GRANT]

Anyone know if a Huglu Ringneck is strong enough to do this with?

 

[Major Khan]

Anyone know if a Huglu Ringneck is strong enough to do this with?

Yes , you can safely shoot Brenekke Black Magic Slugs from the Huglu side by side Model 202B . However , the manufacturer does not want you to use a choke tighter than improved cylinder .

 

[Major Khan]

I saw a German Merkel 12 Bore Model 60 E side lock side by side shot gun a few days ago . It has automatic ejectors , 3 inch chambers and 28 inch barrels ( The left barrel is modified choke. The right barrel is improved cylinder choke ) . I am curious if such a gun could safely use Brenekke Black Magic Slugs and work as a basis for a " Poor Man's Double Rifle " .
The owner uses it for wing shooting , but had infact asked me if the gun would be safe to use with Brenekke Black Magic Slugs and I could not reply .

 

[archer36]

Shotguns and slugs are most the most underrated, most understood firearms!!

Experience.....after running the data and range testing....

If "we" consider, regardless of gauge, to be addressed as a caliber, the dual purpose "shotgun", is really a dual purpose rifle.

A rifled barrel is more accurate than a smooth bore barrel, that is a fact "we" know very well.

So what is the difference between shooting any 1800 + fps cartridge to an equivalent 1800+ shotgun slug(?). NOTHING, "we" use to think, because "we" didn't know any better, shotguns are close range weapons, when in actuality they are very effective out to 500+ yards.

410 "gauge" / caliber= 41 caliber
20 gauge=60 caliber +/-: .600, .610, .615, .620
12 gauge= 75 caliber +/-: .730, .735. .740. .745, .750
10 gauge= 80 caliber +/-: .775, .779. .800,

Shotguns (aka smooth bores) are just a different label for rifles.

Do you call a rifle, or pistol/ revolver a shotgun when using "bird shot"/ "snake shot"/"rat shot" etc.?

Lets get real here. A 2000 fps sabot slug has 500 ft lbs of KE at 500 yds and drops 236". You can't say it's equal to a rifle.

 

[BJONES]

Great information. Thank you. This would be a fun project.

 

[jeff]

My wife shot a bull moose with a 20 gauge and a copper jacketed rotweil slug, it performed like a rifle bullet with perfect expansion and a perfect mushroom, weight retention was close 100% and was found bulging the hide on the off side. A second shot broke the shoulder with a quartering frontal shot and was found bulging the hide on the off side at the rear of the rib cage and again in perfect mushroom and weight retention. Not all slugs are created equal, huge improvements have been made over yesteryear's slugs and performance.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Lets get real here. A 2000 fps sabot slug has 500 ft lbs of KE at 500 yds and drops 236". You can't say it's equal to a rifle.

Geezer, does everything have to be stated in boring details (rhetorical question).......

Would you shoot a: 45-70, 458 WM, 458 Lott, 500NE, 505 Gibbs, 600 NE 500 yards?

Shotguns are not meant for long range shooting. But are good out to 200-300 yards, using a: scope, quality 3 inch shell, and with practice.

The 410 "shotgun" is not a gauge, but a caliber. Properly loaded: in a brass case, large rifle or large rifle magnum primer, powder charge with in SAAMI pressures plus filler, topped with a good bullet/slug.

The 410 makes the best "shotgun" when hunting in shotgun only areas/states /seasons.

Never tried nor thought to try, a 45 maxima out of a 410, but I have shot 45 long colt lead bullet cartridges out of them,.

NOTE: lead will constrict to exit the choke. I would not recommend jacketed bullets, as jacketed bullets may not constrict down to exit the muzzle.

The rifled barrel 12 gauge shotgun would be my second choice, others might choose the 20 gauge as a second choice.

I've only shot shotshells out of 16 and 28 gauges. So no experience or collected data on slugs.

And before someone says anything about KE,...As long as KE at appropriate range meets or exceeds animal weight....with proper shot placement.....animals will drop.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

I’ve never dropped a deer with a slug. I’ve made several one shot kills. Mostly heart shots but a few double lungs, but all have made it between 30 and 100 yards. With the 50 caliber inline muzzle loader. I’ve never had one take a single step. I use brenneke slugs and power belt bullets accordingly, and have no complaints with either. But there is a performance difference.
If only I could use my 30-06.

 

[Major Khan]

I’ve never dropped a deer with a slug. I’ve made several one shot kills. Mostly heart shots but a few double lungs, but all have made it between 30 and 100 yards. With the 50 caliber inline muzzle loader. I’ve never had one take a single step. I use brenneke slugs and power belt bullets accordingly, and have no complaints with either. But there is a performance difference.
If only I could use my 30-06.

Your experience matches mine , Master Smith . Most of the cheetal deer which I shoot with my old Belgian shot gun ( including this specimen in the photograph , which I shot last year ) , always go around 50 to 60 yards after I use a double lung shot on them , with a spherical ball cartridge . But they always drop , after that . When the neck region is selected , as a target ... they drop to the shot.

For panther / leopard ( like the man eater pictured below ) , I always opt for the region right between both the eyes . This drops them on the spot . However , it is impossible to land a hit on this region unless the panther is facing you ( for example , when it is charging , or when you shoot it at night , over torch light ) .

A modern Brenekke Black Magic Slug ( like the kind I use , in my semi automatic shot gun ) would only be even more devastating and accurate , out to greater distances.

 

[Albert GRANT]

Well here is the start to my poor man's double. CZ (Huglu) Ringneck 12ga 26" barrels with screw in chokes. Traded some ammo and the sig scope/rangfinder combo, walked out with this and a leupold VX-III in GLOSS for one of my ordered rifles. I was pretty happy with the deal! Now I need to find someone to put an iron sight on the front and a peep on the rear, and get 2 improved cyl chokes. Anyone have any idea if there is someone good in New England that works on SxS shotguns and/or double rifles?

 

[Albert GRANT]

Unfortunately while I was getting that, I handled my first drilling and loved it. Now I want one of those! This one was beautiful and seemed like a good price, but I behaved. 16ga over 8x60, flip up tang peep, rifle irons that come up with the barrel selector, beautiful engraving, buffalo horn trigger guard (sadly, cracked) nice wood- $2000

 

[crs]

Mr Grant,
That is a slick looking drilling and the for sale tag says it was made in Germany, but I could not see the maker name.
Forgive me if you mentioned it and I failed to see it.

 

[IvW]

Well here is the start to my poor man's double. CZ (Huglu) Ringneck 12ga 26" barrels with screw in chokes. Traded some ammo and the sig scope/rangfinder combo, walked out with this and a leupold VX-III in GLOSS for one of my ordered rifles. I was pretty happy with the deal! Now I need to find someone to put an iron sight on the front and a peep on the rear, and get 2 improved cyl chokes. Anyone have any idea if there is someone good in New England that works on SxS shotguns and/or double rifles?View attachment 334269 View attachment 334270

Forget about the improved cylinder chokes just chop the barrels and start there...

 

[Albert GRANT]

Mr Grant,
That is a slick looking drilling and the for sale tag says it was made in Germany, but I could not see the maker name.
Forgive me if you mentioned it and I failed to see it.

I didn't see, website says Krupp,
http://www.kitterytradingpost.com/n...2.html?cgid=0#q=drilling&lang=default&start=1