Poor Man's Double Rifle

[Albert GRANT]

Forget about the improved cylinder chokes just chop the barrels and start there...

From what I've heard, IC choke should be fine, but there it also the option to go with straight cylinder chokes. Barrel's are only 26" long and with the threaded chokes I'd only be left with 22"-23" barrels, which I feel it too short.

 

[Major Khan]

From what I've heard, IC choke should be fine, but there it also the option to go with straight cylinder chokes. Barrel's are only 26" long and with the threaded chokes I'd only be left with 22"-23" barrels, which I feel it too short.

Improved cylinder is perfectly safe for shooting Brenekke Black Magic Slugs . CZ has said so , themselves.

 

[crs]

OK.
If in good condition, may be a very good price.

 

[perttime]

Krupp made hunting weapons too, in addition to battleships, U-boats, tanks, howitzers, etc? Or was there a gunsmith or gun maker separate from the huge Krupp industrial conglomerate?

 

[Albert GRANT]

Krupp made hunting weapons too, in addition to battleships, U-boats, tanks, howitzers, etc? Or was there a gunsmith or gun maker separate from the huge Krupp industrial conglomerate?

No idea, just going by their website. I know very little about these firearms, other than I really like them now! Lol

 

[HWL]

Krupp made the steel/barrels, not the guns....

HWL

 

[HWL]

The "Brenneke Opal Magnum", 12ga 3", 666 gr, 5184Joule/3822 ft.-lbs.

3" Opal Magnum compared to a regular 3" Brenneke and a 2 3/4" Brenneke

HWL

 

[Major Khan]

The "Brenneke Opal Magnum", 12ga 3", 666 gr, 5184Joule/3822 ft.-lbs.

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3" Opal Magnum compared to a regular 3" Brenneke and a 2 3/4" Brenneke

HWL

How do these slugs compare to the Brenekke Black Magic Slugs , HWL ?

 

[Bullhunter]

These slugs are "hard loaded" and had an "harder bullet", they are only for "newer shootguns", with special barrels.
Please: Dont use them an on older modells.
(Brenneke hast a big viarity if amo, they have also some "softer versions", for orlder "side-by-side" shootguns.)

 

[HWL]

How do these slugs compare to the Brenekke Black Magic Slugs , HWL ?

The Brenneke Black Magic has a slug weight of 602 gr and a muzzle energy of 3014Joule/2222 ft.-lbs.

HWL

 

[Albert GRANT]

The "Brenneke Opal Magnum", 12ga 3", 666 gr, 5184Joule/3822 ft.-lbs.

View attachment 334356 View attachment 334357 View attachment 334358

3" Opal Magnum compared to a regular 3" Brenneke and a 2 3/4" Brenneke

HWL

It's called something different in the USA but we have it and the brenneke site says they are only supposed to be used in rifled barrels- the ribs on the slug are a lot wider than a normal Brenneke slug which is supposed to give the rifling something to grab onto

 

[IvW]

The "Brenneke Opal Magnum", 12ga 3", 666 gr, 5184Joule/3822 ft.-lbs.

View attachment 334356 View attachment 334357 View attachment 334358

3" Opal Magnum compared to a regular 3" Brenneke and a 2 3/4" Brenneke

HWL

I use the one on the right never had any issues...

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

THE POOR MAN’S DOUBLE RIFLE
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When I started my PH career, I just wanted to hunt DG. I jumped at any opportunity that arose and ended up hunting a lot of DG including PAC animals.

My first two years included taking care of problem leopards and Lion’s that wreaked havoc under the foals and calves on a 35000-acre area south west of Lion’s Den. I had no rifle at the time and had to make do with what I got from the outfitter and ranch owner. These where a 308 Win and a 7x57mm. I shot 7 leopard, 5 lionesses, more buffalo than I can remember and 1 Lion. For the buffalo I was permitted to use a spare 375 H&H and on very rare occasions the outfitters 500 Jeff, but not for the rest. I ended up shooting some of the buffalo with the 7x57mm as we bumped into them while out hunting other game for the pot. I always had a tracker with me and we used horses on most of the hunts to get to where we were going. I know these are not recommended for the purpose and even back then probably illegal, but it was the way it was.

During my first two years in between hunts where I was mostly in charge of looking after the camp while on safari, I spent many hrs checking and replenishing baits. Every now and then I would be invited to go along hunting elephant and buffalo. This was the life.

It was a very “wild” ranch and the cattle where just as wild as the game. If the owner ran short on cash we use to go out and shoot a “mombe” bullock and take it to the Lion’s den butchery for some well needed cash.

When we got sick of eating beef, I was sent out to shoot Impala or Sable (yes Sable!!) for a change in diet.

All the leopard and lion I shot during this time where shot over bait. I always made my blinds inside a tree as I often had to spend the night there on my own. These cat’s where also streetwise as they were livestock killers and I was very careful with regards to shot placement and never had to follow up any wounded leopard or lion.

After starting as a Freelance PH, I bought a 375 H&H believing I had the perfect back-up rifle. It served me well. I also bought a 500 Jeff which became my primary DG back up rifle.

Then on one hunt, a fellow PH’s client had wounded a leopard and they needed help on the back-up. As things developed on the follow up, we ended up being very lucky. The speed and ferocity of the attack was just mind boggling, the cat launching from an ant bear hole, the other PH used a buckshot loaded shotgun. First shot had no effect and as the cat launched, he fired the second barrel hitting the neck and shoulder, the cat bounced off him after grounding him and then took off after the tracker, who had decided distance between him and the enraged leopard was the best course of action. I could not shoot as the cat was between me and the tracker. As the tracker swerved, I fired and luckily dropped the cat. It took the tracker 45 minutes to return!!

At the skinning shed we found some pellets just under the skin, very dismal performance.

What stuck with me though was the fact that he had been able to get off 2 shots in the split seconds of the attack.

Having studied and read as much as I could about DG hunting and in particular following up on leopard it is mentioned that a shotgun loaded with buckshot is the way to go. You have 2 instant shots etc. etc.

I needed a double rifle but on my meager earnings could only dream as I could not afford one.

It needed to be light enough and short enough that if I have fired the first shot and I still had to be able to use the firearm with only my right hand to fire the second barrel if needed.

I read about somebody who had made a “Poor man’s double” from a shotgun.

I bought a Brno SxS shotgun with two triggers. I started experimenting with this on game mostly bush pig and warthogs. It very quickly became evident that buckshot of any size lacked penetration and was no good. I changed over to slugs in particular Brenneke slugs, wow what a difference!!!

Then I decided to shorten the barrels to make it more user friendly in the thick stuff and also to get rid of the chokes (3/4 and full). The gunsmith chopped off 4 inches and refitted the bead.

I continued my experiments and shot warthogs, bush pigs, impala, kudu, gemsbuck and blue wildebeest with it.

Being very satisfied with the results, I took it back to the gunsmith and had a proper front sight fitted and also a ghost ring sight on the back.

I now had my leopard medicine and an affordable and very effective “Poor man’s double”

I have used it extensively ever since.

The 4 inch section that was cut off and the front sight after it was fitted over the original bead. In the beginning I just used the bead.

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The action and the ghost ring sight fitted on the back.

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Top view of the front sight.

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Top view of the ghost ring sight.

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Brenneke slugs, original on the left, the other local fitted with Brenneke slugs, Armour brass solid brass case, that I use now for reloading and an original Brenneke slugs, good medicine for the “Poor man’s double”

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Excuse the pictures as they are pictures of pictures…some animals I hunted with the “Poor man’s double” during testing.

A warthog takes his last dip.

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Poor man’s buffalo, the perfect platform for testing..

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Kudu

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Warthog.

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Impala
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This was the longest shot before the Ghost ring and sight was fitted, just with the bead. 87 Long walking paces. I shot the ram from the treeline in the back ground at almost last light, he dropped on the spot.

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Blue wildebeest wounded by client and followed up and shot with the “Poor man’s double” and Brenneke slug.

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And another..

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Another one horned Impala.




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Using the “Poor man’s double” as back up on a Gemsbuck hunt. And no, the barrels are not pointed at his head I am sitting behind him.

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I hope this has given some insight into a cheap alternative to anybody who has ever thought about doing the same. Used within its limitations it is a wonderfully effective tool and I have had a lot of success and fun with this combination.

IVW
I've only used slugs in a 20 inch barrel coach gun on big pigs. They usually don't come back for seconds after you hit them.
Bob

 

[Major Khan]

IvW , what kind of pattern do you get from your “ Poor Man’s Double Rifle “ with AAA cartridges ( Assuming that you have tried , of course) ?

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I have enjoyed this article very much , IvW. Is your BRNO side lock shot gun equipped with ejectors or extractors ?
Do you use factory loaded Brenekke slugs for leopards , or do you always use your own hand loaded brass cartridges ?
I have used my own "poor man's double barreled rifle " ( my old Belgian side by side shot gun ) to kill ( among other things ) 21 hunting leopards ( which we refer to , as " forest panther " ) , 15 gaur bison and 12 royal Bengal tiger ( 11 of which were wounded by my clients and had charged the shikar party . )
View attachment 333617
I would hand load my own cartridges , by removing the spherical ball bullet from a 2.5 inch Eley Grand Prix spherical ball cartridge ( which was a low brass case ) and then loading the spherical ball into an Eley Alphamax magnum 3 inch " High Brass " cartridge case ( after removing the shot from the 3 inch cartridge case ) . The larger powder charge of the 3 inch " High Brass " cartridge case would help me achieve the appropriate velocity for my spherical ball bullets ( which , despite being designed to be used in a 12 Bore shot gun , were actually of 16 Bore calibre , in order to allow the ball to easily pass through the barrel of even the most tightly choked 12 Bores ) .

By the way , while it is not the same as a Brenekke rifled slug being used on African cape buffalo , I have used my spherical ball cartridges to lay low 15 gaur bison in India , back in the old days . While hardly suitable for hunting gaur bison , those 1 ounce spherical balls of hardened lead were quite capable of dispatching gaur bison ( weighing over 2000 pounds ) with a double lung shot .
Of course , these were picked shots and I certainly do not encourage this risky practice !

Friend Ponton
Did you ever use the Breneke slug or see it used during your time.
Your friend Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Anyone know if a Huglu Ringneck is strong enough to do this with?

Albert
Huglu make a lot of shotguns for CZ aka Bruno.
Bob

 

[SRvet]

This has been a very interesting thread! I found it after considering the cost of ammunition to carry out even a modicum of training using a double rifle with ammunition costing £10 per shot. I thought about having a set of express rifle sights soldered onto a cheap side by side that mimicked a double rifle and using slugs which cost much less (£75 per 100). Little did I know that I was several years behind the curve until I found this thread! Now I just need to find a gunsmith to solder on the sights and devise a way to simulate a charge. Perhaps paper plates at 10 and 5m to be shot as fast as possible. How do you all train?

 

[Major Khan]

Friend Ponton
Did you ever use the Breneke slug or see it used during your time.
Your friend Bob

Oh yes , Bob . Brenekke Original ( 2.75 inch ) & Brenekke Black Magic ( 3 inch ) cartridges are both regularly imported in to Bangladesh , by fire arms stores ( As part of the annual stock ) ... And are extremely popular here , for hunting cheetal deer , Bengal Bush Boars and Asian Sloth Bears . I use Brenekke Black Magic Slugs in my 12 Bore German Wischo brand semi automatic shot gun . They are impressive ... In terms of raw stopping power.

During the time of my career ( 1961 - 1970 ) ... Clients used to bring both Brenekke Original Slug cartridges and Foster style slug cartridges to India , for shikar . However , I did not see any 3 inch Brenekke Slug cartridges ... Until they were 1st imported in to Bangladesh , in 1990 ( Rottweil brand ).

However , I do not use them in my old Belgian 12 Bore side by side shot gun ( The gun which I use for virtually ALL of my hunting purposes ) ... Because that grand , old gun was built in 1957 . The left barrel is fully choked . The right barrel is a modified choke. I use my hand loaded Spherical Ball cartridges in my " Old Belgian " ... Taking care to load the cartridges with 16 Bore Spherical Ball bullets . The 16 Bore Spherical Ball is guaranteed to pass through even the tightest 12 Bore shot gun chokes ... Without damaging the barrel , or causing a bulge .

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Unfortunately while I was getting that, I handled my first drilling and loved it. Now I want one of those! This one was beautiful and seemed like a good price, but I behaved. 16ga over 8x60, flip up tang peep, rifle irons that come up with the barrel selector, beautiful engraving, buffalo horn trigger guard (sadly, cracked) nice wood- $2000
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Very nice

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Oh yes , Bob . Brenekke Original ( 2.75 inch ) & Brenekke Black Magic ( 3 inch ) cartridges are both regularly imported in to Bangladesh , by fire arms stores ( As part of the annual stock ) ... And are extremely popular here , for hunting cheetal deer , Bengal Bush Boars and Asian Sloth Bears . I use Brenekke Black Magic Slugs in my 12 Bore German Wischo brand semi automatic shot gun . They are impressive ... In terms of raw stopping power.

During the time of my career ( 1961 - 1970 ) ... Clients used to bring both Brenekke Original Slug cartridges and Foster style slug cartridges to India , for shikar . However , I did not see any 3 inch Brenekke Slug cartridges ... Until they were 1st imported in to Bangladesh , in 1990 ( Rottweil brand ).

However , I do not use them in my old Belgian 12 Bore side by side shot gun ( The gun which I use for virtually ALL of my hunting purposes ) ... Because that grand , old gun was built in 1957 . The left barrel is fully choked . The right barrel is a modified choke. I use my hand loaded Spherical Ball cartridges in my " Old Belgian " ... Taking care to load the cartridges with 16 Bore Spherical Ball bullets . The 16 Bore Spherical Ball is guaranteed to pass through even the tightest 12 Bore shot gun chokes ... Without damaging the barrel , or causing a bulge .

Friend Ponton
Those black magic sound impressive. I have seen them on YouTube and boy do the do some damage.
I have just purchased some Black Hawk Punishers slugs for my bolt action Mossberg Maverick bolt action to try. They look different to anything I've seen before. They are like a Breneke but with a hollow point.
Any information about them would be greatly appreciated.

As you can see on the box they are not a forster type and not quite a proper Breneke either.
They also have an unusual case length of 2 and 5/9 inches.
If anyone can tell me anything it would be great. You can also use them un a choked barrel. I will see how they go when I get my shotgun in a couple of weeks.
Your friend Bob